Outer Limits 4x4 Board

My first jump into an inverter welder was with one of these......Token Tools AC/DC Pulse machine....
I liked it because the bloke that designed them was the bloke selling them in Wyong just up the F3.......
They had a really good Diode pack in them and he offered unreal after sales backup....... he said he would never leave me without a welder.
I also got the water cooling pac as well.

http://tokentools.com.au/category1_1.htm

What was that unit like Harbs?

It was pretty good......
I found it to be a good thing for the money.
Have a good look on the web though..... often you can find near new big buck machines for very good prices second hand....
Also ask around the welding shops for demo models.....

I bought my Kemppi MLS 2300 because I wanted one I could use at home. (No can do with my 3 phase 300 amp OTC)
Because my day job is Tig welding I decided against the generic Chinese machines simply because this is what I do for a living and I didn't like the way they were laid out and the controls are a bit vague at best.
That's not to say they can't produce good welds, in fact, I've proved they can in the right hands to friends who have bought them. It's just I felt I was producing good welds "in spite" of the machine rather than the machine helping me to produce the welds.
The upper end machines however tend to laid out a bit more logically and include features not present in the low end machines.
Simple things in my Kemppi like turning the dial and one click equals 1 amp, or 1 hertz or fractions of percentages in start, minilog and crater currents.
This is where the Chinese machines are really poor with what I term "vague" controls.
The Kemppi comes with a really nice earth lead and clamp. The torch and it's insulation is 1st rate.
As a single phase Tig it's the equal of the best available in fact I rate it better (certainly better value for money) than the Fronius I was also looking at which was a more expensive machine.
It's the sort of Tig that makes you want to explore its capabilities and unlike the generic Tigs it helps/motivates you to improve your welding.
For someone starting out the Chinese machines will be fine, they are cheap entry level machines with quite a few features but to the professional welder they tend to be a bit frustrating.
If I were doing a lot of on site welding I'd buy a Chinese one rather than take my $5000 plus machine and run the risk of someone liking it even better than I do.
Regards Andrew.

awill4x4 wrote:I bought my Kemppi MLS 2300 because I wanted one I could use at home. (No can do with my 3 phase 300 amp OTC)
Because my day job is Tig welding I decided against the generic Chinese machines simply because this is what I do for a living and I didn't like the way they were laid out and the controls are a bit vague at best.
That's not to say they can't produce good welds, in fact, I've proved they can in the right hands to friends who have bought them. It's just I felt I was producing good welds "in spite" of the machine rather than the machine helping me to produce the welds.
The upper end machines however tend to laid out a bit more logically and include features not present in the low end machines.
Simple things in my Kemppi like turning the dial and one click equals 1 amp, or 1 hertz or fractions of percentages in start, minilog and crater currents.
This is where the Chinese machines are really poor with what I term "vague" controls.
The Kemppi comes with a really nice earth lead and clamp. The torch and it's insulation is 1st rate.
As a single phase Tig it's the equal of the best available in fact I rate it better (certainly better value for money) than the Fronius I was also looking at which was a more expensive machine.
It's the sort of Tig that makes you want to explore its capabilities and unlike the generic Tigs it helps/motivates you to improve your welding.
For someone starting out the Chinese machines will be fine, they are cheap entry level machines with quite a few features but to the professional welder they tend to be a bit frustrating.
If I were doing a lot of on site welding I'd buy a Chinese one rather than take my $5000 plus machine and run the risk of someone liking it even better than I do.
Regards Andrew.

See now you are just making me happier with my new machine ...
If you have 3 phase I wouldn't look past the none inverter models either as learning on the old school stuff teaches you better feel and interpretation of the material and what the effects are / fix's are.
As Andrew says above the new better quality machines help out a lot and can often make an average welder look better than he actually is. Welding is really about time on the hand piece and working with the metal and changing what you do in relation to what you see and feel the metal do.
I will be very interested to see how my ne Kemppi feels on some of the stuff I have welded a lot of with my old Miller.

awill4x4 wrote:...lots of good stuff...

Bloody brilliant. Thanks for that - mate borrowed my welder and manual at one point and the manual never returned. Now I know what the various settings do I can experiment

Some of the Chinese machines aren't too bad for layout - mine is reasonably good in that respect, although it doesn't have the finesse of having 1 click = 1A or anything like that.

Moph wrote: mate borrowed my welder and manual at one point and the manual never returned.

pmsl.....
same thing happened to me.... went online and searched for the manafacturer..... downloaded a manual...... all good

Kingy

awill4x4 wrote:.....If I were doing a lot of on site welding I'd buy a Chinese one rather than take my $5000 plus machine and run the risk of someone liking it even better than I do.
..........

Fully agree

although I dont use a tig onsite at all, I do run an inverter onsite daily, my $300 "fireant" has finaly died after 3 years of flawless service, even a fall from 4 metres didnt kill it although it probably didnt do it much good, it managed to work on regardless for a further 6 months before dying last week.

I'll be replacing it with another chinese unit if this one cant be fixed
( at the doctors at the moment)

Same rule applies to my migs.....
the SAF320 will NEVER leave the shed, the chinese made unit is on the trailer


Kingy

i have an Esseti quad 260, does mig, pulse mig and double pulse mig, ac/dc tig and pulse tig, as well as normal stick functions. i needed a decent mig preferably with pulse, but also needed a decent ac/dc tig. when i got it around 3 or 4 years ago, a decent mig was around 5 grand, and the same for an ac/dc tig, so for 9 grand i got the lot in one unit, that runs off single or three phase. only problem is i haven't got a computer degree to operate the bastard thing! does everything i need it to do, but would be nice to learn to use all the fancy stuff.

Well I finally got around to plugging the new Tig in and must say that first impression is that the Kemppi was worth the $$$$$.

Also go the Miller serviced and she gota clean bill of health so will have it on eBay shortly.

Cool SteelArt, I know you'll enjoy it just as much as I do.
Now, for a test to show just what it can do.
Screw the AC hertz frequency up to 250Hz, the AC balance to -60 and sharpen a 2.4mm (preferably Ceriated grey tip but Thoriated red tip will do) electrode to a sharp point.
Then, try to lay the smallest fillet weld you can on 2-3mm aluminium sheet. I recommend using 1.2mm Aluminium Mig wire when I'm trying to do tiny fillet welds.
The results will surprise you compared to the old transformer machines.
Regards Andrew.

grundomat wrote:i have an Esseti quad 260, does mig, pulse mig and double pulse mig, ac/dc tig and pulse tig, as well as normal stick functions. i needed a decent mig preferably with pulse, but also needed a decent ac/dc tig. when i got it around 3 or 4 years ago, a decent mig was around 5 grand, and the same for an ac/dc tig, so for 9 grand i got the lot in one unit, that runs off single or three phase. only problem is i haven't got a computer degree to operate the bastard thing! does everything i need it to do, but would be nice to learn to use all the fancy stuff.

what is pulse mig and what is it used for??

Serg

uninformed wrote:

grundomat wrote:i have an Esseti quad 260, does mig, pulse mig and double pulse mig, ac/dc tig and pulse tig, as well as normal stick functions. i needed a decent mig preferably with pulse, but also needed a decent ac/dc tig. when i got it around 3 or 4 years ago, a decent mig was around 5 grand, and the same for an ac/dc tig, so for 9 grand i got the lot in one unit, that runs off single or three phase. only problem is i haven't got a computer degree to operate the bastard thing! does everything i need it to do, but would be nice to learn to use all the fancy stuff.

what is pulse mig and what is it used for??

Serg

The Pulse is a cycling between a high current and a low one.... blasts in penetration then back off to a lower amperage then blasts again..... sort like getting on the throttle and then backing off the repeating again and again etc.... lets the workpiece cool a bit in the low cycles so its a bit ore difficult to burn through the job.....looks pretty to....stacked dime sort of look...its similar in TIGs and MIGs, same principal.
The on times for low and high etc etc are all adjustable so you can set it for best results.
Pulse Mig is particularly good for Aluminium when running long beads....if set right, its very hard to tell its not TIG.

awill4x4 wrote:Cool SteelArt, I know you'll enjoy it just as much as I do.
Now, for a test to show just what it can do.
Screw the AC hertz frequency up to 250Hz, the AC balance to -60 and sharpen a 2.4mm (preferably Ceriated grey tip but Thoriated red tip will do) electrode to a sharp point.
Then, try to lay the smallest fillet weld you can on 2-3mm aluminium sheet. I recommend using 1.2mm Aluminium Mig wire when I'm trying to do tiny fillet welds.
The results will surprise you compared to the old transformer machines.
Regards Andrew.

Cheers I will give that a bash. Only spent about an hour with it so far and must say Pulse make alloy pretty easy, so easy in fact my buggy is now getting a exposed alloy dash and centre console. Will do a bit more playing before I go laying bead on something I care about though .

Just waiting on my pedal which should help me crater less at the close out of a run.

you just wait till you master all the wave form adjustments...... man are you in for a pleasant surprise.

Harb wrote:you just wait till you master all the eave form adjustments...... man are you in for a pleasant surprise.

What is a eave ?

SteelArt wrote:

Harb wrote:you just wait till you master all the eave form adjustments...... man are you in for a pleasant surprise.

What is a eave ?

It's a spelling mistake Wave form I mean....Doh.....good to see you enjoying the new welder though.
So what you going to buy next ?

All this talk about tig welders finally made me get one I have been thinking about it for some time.

I was going to go the Chinese option as I am just learning to tig weld and I thought it would be a good starting option but after talking to a mate of my dads how is a welding teacher he told me to get a good second hand machine learn on it then upgrade to a inverter model later so I bought one off these same as a miller 250 made in USA but boxed WIA.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/WIA-High-Capacit ... 1c1309d966

He was telling me I will still have it when I am 80 years old top tig 3 phase HF every thing I will need to learn with.

It is in like new condition just have to get a argon bottle and I am off the guy still has 2 left if any one is interested $1100 each.

Garth

Really good choice Garth..... I recon you are always safe with a top name second hand machine.
you will do ok with that bloke too..... I have brought a couple of things off him and all worked out ok.

Harb wrote: So what you going to buy next ?

Pulse Mig with pull gun

rustys wrote:All this talk about tig welders finally made me get one I have been thinking about it for some time.

I was going to go the Chinese option as I am just learning to tig weld and I thought it would be a good starting option but after talking to a mate of my dads how is a welding teacher he told me to get a good second hand machine learn on it then upgrade to a inverter model later so I bought one off these same as a miller 250 made in USA but boxed WIA.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/WIA-High-Capacit ... 1c1309d966

He was telling me I will still have it when I am 80 years old top tig 3 phase HF every thing I will need to learn with.

It is in like new condition just have to get a argon bottle and I am off the guy still has 2 left if any one is interested $1100 each.

Garth

Only problem with them is the fact they have a lifting eye on them, thus they are HUGE ...

Sam specs as my Millar Dial Arc and that was its only draw back. If you have the room they are a great welder.

Oh they use a fair amount of power as well.

Pulse Mig with pull gun

got some long ally runs in mind eh

Harb wrote:

SteelArt wrote:[quote="Harb]
So what you going to buy next ?

Pulse Mig with pull gun

got some long ally runs in mind eh [/quote][/quote][/quote]


Nope just thought they were cool, not set on the pull gun more the pulse idea, I like the look of the beads

Guessing you have one already

yeah I do....you will love it, they really do a pretty weld if you like the stack of dimes look , its near impossible to tell its not TIG'd

I have this one.... It has a LCD anel and controls under the rubber flap on the Power source, so all the pulse functions are on that..... A lot of stuff can be controlled on the torch as well....there is controls and a display on that too.



The Pull torch I have is not an expensive one because the welder has a remote wire feed and I fit it up with a different setup that has a nylon inner core, so I dont often need or use the pull torch.....

Harb wrote:yeah I do....you will love it, they really do a pretty weld if you like the stack of dimes look , its near impossible to tell its not TIG'd

I have this one.... It has a LCD anel and controls under the rubber flap on the Power source, so all the pulse functions are on that..... A lot of stuff can be controlled on the torch as well....there is controls and a display on that too.



The Pull torch I have is not an expensive one because the welder has a remote wire feed and I fit it up with a different setup that has a nylon inner core, so I dont often need or use the pull torch.....

Sweet, if you don't mind what does one of those babies sell for ?

I was looking at the Miller 350p

I brought this one at a really good price... it was only about 1 hour old and the guy that brought it couldn't run it on the power he had available, so he downsized......and he was desperate to sell this one and get it off his books.
I paid about 9.5k for it, but from memory they were around the 17k when I brought it....
you had to buy everything separate...it was CIG's flagship welder, synergic , pulse etc etc..... so I got lucky

here is the blurb on it

http://www.aitkenwelding.com/documents/ ... elders.pdf

Harb wrote:I brought this one at a really good price... it was only about 1 hour old and the guy that brought it couldn't run it on the power he had available, so he downsized......and he was desperate to sell this one and get it off his books.
I paid about 9.5k for it, but from memory they were around the 17k when I brought it....
you had to buy everything separate...it was CIG's flagship welder, synergic , pulse etc etc..... so I got lucky

here is the blurb on it

http://www.aitkenwelding.com/documents/ ... elders.pdf

good man harb giving my company a plug there.

steelart the do one in a 320 too i'll get you a price.....

benji. wrote:

Harb wrote:I brought this one at a really good price... it was only about 1 hour old and the guy that brought it couldn't run it on the power he had available, so he downsized......and he was desperate to sell this one and get it off his books.
I paid about 9.5k for it, but from memory they were around the 17k when I brought it....
you had to buy everything separate...it was CIG's flagship welder, synergic , pulse etc etc..... so I got lucky

here is the blurb on it

http://www.aitkenwelding.com/documents/ ... elders.pdf

good man harb giving my company a plug there.

steelart the do one in a 320 too i'll get you a price.....

Thats ok.... I love my welder

Harb wrote:

benji. wrote:

Harb wrote:I brought this one at a really good price... it was only about 1 hour old and the guy that brought it couldn't run it on the power he had available, so he downsized......and he was desperate to sell this one and get it off his books.
I paid about 9.5k for it, but from memory they were around the 17k when I brought it....
you had to buy everything separate...it was CIG's flagship welder, synergic , pulse etc etc..... so I got lucky

here is the blurb on it

http://www.aitkenwelding.com/documents/ ... elders.pdf

good man harb giving my company a plug there.

steelart the do one in a 320 too i'll get you a price.....

Thats ok.... I love my welder

yeah for the money you cant go past them, just magic what they can do,
make an average welder like myself look pretty bloody good.

What do the pulse migs start at $ wise.

I would love to get one down the track.

Harb you are making me cry with all the toys you have can you stop posting photos please the more I see the more I wan't

Garth