Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Posted: **Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:44 pm**

Surfection wrote:I'm not going to say that in most cases for most people Black Pipe won't do the job. However in my experience the strength difference between this and CDS or CDW tube is massive. Using a Protools or JD bender pictured below you could really tell the difference between bending the 2 different types of material in the same (3.2mm) wall thickness. I had a 1.5 mtr handle on my bender and could bend Black Pipe one handed with no real thought to where my hand was on the handle, by simple walking back with my body weight on the handle. With CDW or CDS it took both hands right at the end of the handle and most of the strength that my massive 68kg body weight could use to pull with. You also got less spring back with the tube than you did with the pipe, and the tube being better quality material was far kinder to the dies.

I would highly reccomend spending the extra $$$ and contacting Performance Metals or another specialist steel supplier to use quality tube, not pipe. It will pay for itself in the long run if you plan on keeping the car and driving it hard, it may also save your life.

Both myself and a good mate of mine own jd benders,i have only bent seam NB in my bender and it took my whole body weight(64kgs) and both hands on the end of the extension to bend it,not sure how youve done it with 1 arm.Maybe your handle is longer im not sure,we are using the standard handle and extension that came with the bender.

Cheers for the suggestion zoltan,ill have a look into it tomorrow

Posted: **Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:11 pm**

http://www.allsteel.com.au/hollowcarbon.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

50/36 hollow bar. by the time you machined it out to your 38.1 to suit the bungs youd still have a allright wall thickness.

ill be looking into some 40/25 i think for my project,is only a lightweight zuk with 3/4 heims and 1" weld in bungs

go 56/36 and be better off again mate??

Posted: **Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:08 am**

awesome cheers for the specs dude,makes life alot easier when someone else does the research lol

Posted: **Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:25 pm**

haha your lucky im trying to learn a bit for myself and make my own rig

Posted: **Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:52 pm**

Why use weld in bungs and not just tap or machine the threads in? I have seen plenty of weld in bungs break welds and come out. Just a thought. I tapped my 1 1/4 UNF threads into my ends. My material was about 46od and 26id.

Posted: **Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:17 pm**

ive been thinking about that also as bein an option. it will just be a pain in the ass for the 8LH threads i have. could maybe get a tap or machine em LH in the lathe but it all takes time.

Posted: **Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:38 am**

nastytroll wrote:Why use weld in bungs and not just tap or machine the threads in? I have seen plenty of weld in bungs break welds and come out. Just a thought. I tapped my 1 1/4 UNF threads into my ends. My material was about 46od and 26id.

because thats how they come in the package ive got
Also i dont think my welds will break,if they do ive got alot bigger things to worry about than some link ends EG Engine,gearbox and transfer would fall out if my welds failed

Posted: **Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:12 am**

georgey wrote:
nastytroll wrote:Why use weld in bungs and not just tap or machine the threads in? I have seen plenty of weld in bungs break welds and come out. Just a thought. I tapped my 1 1/4 UNF threads into my ends. My material was about 46od and 26id.
because thats how they come in the package ive got
Also i dont think my welds will break,if they do ive got alot bigger things to worry about than some link ends EG Engine,gearbox and transfer would fall out if my welds failed

I'd imagine your links will be under a fair bit more stress that your mounts. I and everyone I know over-engineers these to hell and back, as a byproduct of the area that they need to be bolted to...

That said, a good weld isn't hard, and excellent weld is....

Posted: **Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:53 am**

Yeah understand what your saying mate,id imagine though that with the amount of torque twist in an ls1 that the engine mounts will have a fairly high stress load.

Im a 2nd class welder almost a 1st class soon so they should be right

Posted: **Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:09 pm**

georgey wrote:Yeah understand what your saying mate,id imagine though that with the amount of torque twist in an ls1 that the engine mounts will have a fairly high stress load.

Mulitply that engine mount stress load by your t/case ratio, your diff ratio, the difference in separation (approx 300%) between engine mounts and link mounts, and the leverage factor of your tyres. That's the torque your link mounts and rod ends are seeing

The torque numbers that get transferred out of an axle housing and into the chassis tend to be pretty big.

Posted: **Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:46 pm**

Watch some King of the hammers and look at some of the big dollar trucks that have bung welds fail. There were a few at tuff truck this year too.

If I was going to weld bungs in I would want it to be long on the internal spigot and plug weld the inside end through a 12mm or so hole that has a big champher and a full V prep at the shoulder on the end of the link pipe. That will take any side movement out and stop the weld area fatiguing. It also means that the welded spots at the rear of the bung will have to pull through the link material if the end weld or all the welds let go from the link, so effectively pinning the bung.

Posted: **Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:06 pm**

When plug welding bungs youll find that it will distort the threads under it.

Fit an old TRE or a piece of threaded stock to reduce distortion.

All my steering rods are hollow bar with bungs. Never had issues there, bent plenty of heims though...

Posted: **Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:29 pm**

Steer clear of bungs if at all possible (which isn't always the case) but ..... General Engineering facts support it !!!

brooksy

Posted: **Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:57 pm**

What would you suggest instead brooksy?
Tapping the thread into the pipe?

This was the kit i was going to buy for the front and rear.
http://locktup4x4.com.au/buggy-truggy-2 ... -1004.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I might just buy the heims without the bungs and the do whatevere you suggest.

if your suggestion is tapping the link,what size links would you use with these heims?

cheers
justin

Posted: **Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:42 am**

I am currently using 45/25 hollow bar to suit 1.25" joints. 29.5mm is the tapping drill size but I have a lathe so I just bore it out & then tap the ends in the lathe.
With your heims I would just find hollow bar to suit & do the same.
If you are local to me I am happy to do it for you.

brooksy

Posted: **Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:01 am**

Thanks for the offer brooksy but im in newcastle.
I have access to a lathe but ill have to go and buy the right tap.
Thanks for the info mate

Posted: **Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:53 am**

georgey wrote:Thanks for the offer brooksy but im in newcastle.
I have access to a lathe but ill have to go and buy the right tap.
Thanks for the info mate

cut the thread with the lathe?

Posted: **Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:21 am**

joshy wrote:
georgey wrote:Thanks for the offer brooksy but im in newcastle.
I have access to a lathe but ill have to go and buy the right tap.
Thanks for the info mate
cut the thread with the lathe?

Seemed pretty obvious to me...

Unless it doesn't have a feed?

Posted: **Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:06 pm**

Doing internal threads isn't easy without experience, correct tooling (internal threading boring bar), threading tips, lathe in good enough condition with backlash, etc.
I have seen some major FU's even by tradesman in my time in workshops.
Buying a tap (long series) & preferably spiral tap makes for a cost effect purchase & an easier job using tailstock & live centre.

brooksy

Posted: **Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:09 pm**

Havent learnt how cut threads yet.
Im a welder not a fitter lol havent had alot of experience with lathes and what i have done is only drilling,boring and making things to exact sizes.

Posted: **Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:43 pm**

Ah fair enough, as brooksy said then, get a tap. But they aint cheap.

Posted: **Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:59 pm**

can you get LH taps??

edit: in 3/4 unf sorry

Posted: **Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:04 pm**

Turbo Tonka wrote:can you get LH taps??

edit: in 3/4 unf sorry

Yes but you will need to mortgage your house for one.

Posted: **Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:08 pm**

haha just had a quick search on flebay

$64 for lh set
$64 for normal set + freight on them all

dunno if theyd be good quality or not. i myself have recently bought heims with weld in bungs and was hoping i could go this option. even chased up hollow bar through my old work to suit so now i dunno what to do

Posted: **Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:19 pm**

you don't have to use a LH thread, it just means you need to remove it to adjust it. I'm sure the eBay ones are of the fineness quality

Posted: **Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:23 pm**

theyd only have to tap a few threads for me lol

i allready have the joints,i got a heap from lowrange a while back now and have only just last week got the steel underway. Hopefully it will work

got 8lh,8 rh heims

Posted: **Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:50 am**

How much did 16 heims with postage set you back mate?Pm me if you dont want to say.
Just wondering if its cheaper buying 16 from the staes without bungs or 16 here.Price here from locktup is $1300 for 16 heims,jam nut and weld in bungs.Little bit less without the bungs.
cheers

Posted: **Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:06 am**

low range will quote postage on there website to your door. I've used the USPS priority mail heaps and never had a problem

Posted: **Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:15 pm**

georgey wrote:How much did 16 heims with postage set you back mate?Pm me if you dont want to say.
Just wondering if its cheaper buying 16 from the staes without bungs or 16 here.Price here from locktup is $1300 for 16 heims,jam nut and weld in bungs.Little bit less without the bungs.
cheers

its cheaper to go to wreckers and use patrol susp bush's, but thats me lol

Posted: **Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:04 pm**

the wrecker option where i am is no good.i got mine with the dollar at about $1.03ish

i got 16x3/4 joints with weld in bungs and misalignment spacers for $ 520 to the door

in the past i have bought 6.5 gears,cromo cvs,locrights,wheel spacers,airshocks etc off them and have never had a trouble.longest order has been 2 weeks.Sean is great if you have any questions too

Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Link lengths,is this long enough?

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