Outer Limits 4x4 Board

mrmagoo wrote:Taff,,, finally someone posting what we all needed to know and with proof. everyone keeps saying hilux and hiace and thats about it.. thanks for much needed input and pics to convince me to copy this.

no worries i was having doubts but thought for $120 it was worth a try. Turned out well i think.

mrmagoo wrote:Hey Taff,does the shocks bolt straight in or is there some mods that need to be done? i just want to have everything prepared so i can do it all at once and not have to f**k round too much when i pull it apart.
So i need above mentioned shocks and springs,bushes all round and what else? do i need new U bolts?
Anything else you can think of?

cheers mate

I got new UBolts from King Springs. looking at my stock ones now i think i could probably re-use them, but everyone says to replace the ubolts... so i did. Cost around $100 for a full set, which is 6 regular size and 2 larger for the front right, the offset center makes the housing larger.

I got my Bushes from Bruce on auszookers. PM him on there for a price.

Only other things i needed were new bolts all round and some crush tube. I bought 12mm x 95mm Grade 8 bolts and Nyloc nuts. i used the stock shackles, one side needed to be drilled out to 12mm on the shackle because they use a weird bolt thats 12mm one end and 10mm on the other. The crush tube is 16mm with 2mm wall for the solid mounts on the springs, that depends on the bushes you use though. Grease everything really well while your in there too!!!

The shocks bolt straight on, i was surprised after i flexed it all up that the rear was hitting the bump stops, but a small [10mm ish] extension is probably a good idea anyway. The fronts will need a bump stop extension, probably 20-30mm.

You will also need extended break lines, mine get fairly tight on full flex and i think are limiting it all a bit. I will get some made up by a break place on my next day off work. you can see them at full extension in this pic.



It was a very very easy job, took a bit over 40min per spring for 1 complete noob and a helper who knew a bit... just do one at a time and you will be fine

Yeah i will.thanks for all that. will make my job(and probably a few other peoples) a lot easier. its better to know exactly what you need before you start especially if its your DD.i have seen somewhere advertise extended brakelines but i cant remember where.
Do you reckon its cheaper to get a brake shop to make some up.?100mm be enough?

i haven't done it yet so I'm not sure. I'm going to get mine professionally made, cheap shocks are one thing but dodgy break lines could be scary.

Hey Taff not sure if im confusing threads or not but do i have to extend fuel filler hose or is that just for body lift?

just body lifts

cool,should be happening very soon then.glad i have all the info up front now.
Oh and should i change my shackles or is re-bushing them ok?

mrmagoo wrote:cool,should be happening very soon then.glad i have all the info up front now.
Oh and should i change my shackles or is re-bushing them ok?

Make your own or buy new ones, some of them may be ok but may be pitted out.

Nic

Just put the vs on the front and the hiace/hilux on the rears with a 2 inch shakle lift.

The new shocks are good - heaps more travel which is nice, hope to post pics soon.

Am getting a bit of a thump on on hard compression in the front - eg going over a speed bump fast, when coming back down the back of the bump getting a thump - not sure if its bumpstop hitting or if its shock bottoming out... hope its not the latter.

jamespbeasley wrote:Just put the vs on the front and the hiace/hilux on the rears with a 2 inch shakle lift.

The new shocks are good - heaps more travel which is nice, hope to post pics soon.

Am getting a bit of a thump on on hard compression in the front - eg going over a speed bump fast, when coming back down the back of the bump getting a thump - not sure if its bumpstop hitting or if its shock bottoming out... hope its not the latter.

If the shocks bottoming out, just extend the bump stop. Years ago when we put this combination on rigs, it was with 31 or larger tyres, so the bump stop was always spaced down.

Layto....

What is the most lift u can run with the vs commoodore front / hilux rear shock combo?

I have 2 inch ext shackles and am thinking of getting 2 inch lifted springs - will that be too high for those shocks and require new ones?

Also thinking i might just do a 2 inch BL - that wont affect shock travel... wil it?

James, I answer the second bit first - a body lift has no effect on shock travel at all. The shocks are attached to the chassis so when you space the body up off the chassis, all engine, gearbox, suspension stuff stays exactly where it was before the BL.

Now, the shock length question- I will try and explain this carefully.

the #1 limiting factor on wheel travel and height is the compressed length of the shock.

If the stock sierra shock is 350mm long fully compressed, and the shock you have fitted is 400mm long fully compressed, you will need to either make a new shock mount that is 50mm taller, or fit a 50mm bumpstop spacer.

There is no way around this problem. On my current car (very quickly put together for this year's adventure tour), I am running unknown front springs with 3 leaves (these run dead flat) 2" lift shackles and 2" bumpstop spacers with commodore front shocks.

When I build it properly, it will be running OME N76 shocks on totally custom mounts top and bottom.

It is not possible to run a commodore shock without a spacer - even with a full 2" bumpstop spacer, my shocks will bottom on articulation.

By all means run the 2" springs and the shackles, but make sure you get a spacer in the front end pronto or you risk breaking your shocks and mounts.

Steve.

coxy321 wrote:Just out of curiosity - i bought two suspension sets (branded Formula Suspension) through Bursons, supposed to be a 2" lift over std. The spings have i think four leafs, with an extra load leaf on the rears. We fitted one set to a '86 JX N/T, and they're quite tall, and they factory shocks were at LEAST 2" too short to even reach the mounting pins.

I've just fitted the second set to my '91 W/T, and have the same problem - the factory shocks are way too short to reach the mounts. I actually had my brother hang off the corner of the car, and we compressed it enough to slip them on. Needless to say, it handled like a skateboard, so we left them out.

So did i get some really lifted springs, or is this a common thing?

Cheers again - Coxy

Your kidding me you didnt get longer shocks with the kit?....
I can get just the 2" lifted springs for $110 each, aparently a good ride to, and the u-bolts shouldnt be more then $100 a new bush kit $60 and shocks for around $150 new. so all up $750 and didnt have to source any other parts, or you can get a 2" Kit from suziworx or suzisport for around $800 - $900, With a 2" lift kit you shouldnt have to get longer brake lines they will come close to full stretch but shouls be ok. I havent had to lengthen mine yet.
When you play with your shackels you run into extension and compression problems with your shocks.

why?
Because your changing the centre point of which they work
this is why in the SPOA conversions they have to change the shock mounts, the easiest way for them is to try and keep the original shock position on the diff . and leaving the original top mount. by doing this they have gained that extra 5" shock extension so they can run longer shocks.if they mounted the shock with the springs (on top of the diff) then they would have to change the top mount. but for us runing SPUA, Its easier to modify the top shockie mount.
= longer shackles= the shock is siting longer then intended and is obviously not working properly, hence the reason you are having to move the bump stop down. why not move the top mount of the shockie up and get longer shocks again.
This also depends on how legal you want to keep your zook.
If its just a weekend warrior and your not bothered about legalities or being defected. Then longer shackles are an easy lift and can help with flex, you just have to remember the more distance you put between your diffs and the chassie, you will have to make the same mods to your shocks, Pain in the arse. yes. legal NO.
here is a link
Queensland transport suspension mods:
http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/resourc ... cement.pdf

Hope this makes sence, well 2c anyway

OK sorry for bringing up a dead post but hopefully someone will answer it anyway?

ok well i am getting my Zuk soon and want to give if a lift like 2" and i have read the whole thread and worked out that i can do this easy as.

But i am confused about one thing!?!?!
Do i have to just get the shockies if i have Leaf Spring suspension or will i have to get Shockies and Coils even if i have Leaf Spring?

Because i am willing to do this as long as i can be done in say a day or 2 without any hassles?

Also how do i extend my bump stopper on the chassis?

Thank you for your help so far

Given me hope for a cheap lift kit other then a $600 on from ebay or whatever

Cameron

If you want a 2" lift you will have to replace your current leaf springs with lifted ones, i'd suggest Old Man Emu brand springs (around $110 each last time i checked.

You will also have to change your shocks. Then shocks mentioned in this thread are great for their price (around $35 each i think).

You really only need to extend the front bumpstops about 1" to prevent the shocks bottoming out. To do this i simply got a 1" piece of metal, cut to the size of the bumpstop, drilled 2 holes in it and bolted it to the existing bumpstop mount using longer bolts.

This setup might be close to $600 but would be heaps better than the ebay kit

Thanks heaps man really helpful

And yeah ebay was just a mention would never buy a kit off ebay when you can buy all the parts for it yourself and probably save some money

But yeah ill look into the Old Man Emu Springs and the shockies are mention heaps anyway lol but yeah ill look into then.

Also do i have to get and new bushes or anything else or can i just get new springs and shockies and then chuck em on?

And also do neeed to get new coil springs?
Cause i am really confused about the coils on sierra??
Weather they have them or not is the question i am asking??

if you have a leaf spring model (1995 and older) then you dont have coil springs.its one or the other.

i just brought these gabriel shocks mentioned from supercrap ($108 for the lot! ). i'm replacing the bushes too and ordering some old man emu springs aswell. i am planning on reusing my u-bolts.. they should work im thinking??

Yeah i was going to get the gabriel shocks like mentioned and then get the OME springs for it.

But i am not doing mine Right away mainly cause i dont have the time or money but will some as i have some time off from work so ill be looking into it more.

lilzook wrote:i am planning on reusing my u-bolts.. they should work im thinking??

The "official" word is that ubolts have to be changed every time you take them apart. They stretch and each time they are re-tensioned they get closer to failure.

A broken U bolt is very, very hard to fix in the bush.

I have re-used many ubolts, but I have seen one fail and it gets complicated quick.

Steve.

I rececntly lifted my widetrack Sierra. I used OME springs (medium duty F&R), bushes, and U-bolts. KYB Opel Record rear shockies for my front (almost same as commo wagon), Monroe GT Hilux rear shockies for my rear like mentioned previously in this thread. This came to about $600 total cost.

Just a few things I found:
Would never use OME bushes again they are too hard a urethane (for Sierra anyway) and overpriced.
OME provided terrible U-bolts for the front drivers side spring, too skinny, and tiny washes which chewed out when I tensioned them to spec.
Rear shockies hit on the brake line brackets on the rear axle, so the brackets require relocating.

Other than these little issues, I'm happy with it, and it rides allot better then a standard Sierra. Anyone worried about shockies being valved wrong for this application I would say need not worry.

Oh also dont forget extended brake lines and extended bumpstops for the longer shockies. Brake lines might not be needed for all setups, but the bumpstops are a must for the commo shocks.

I agree highway star, the OME driver's front inside Ubolt is rubbish, but it is designed to also fit the 1.0, which uses a smaller diameter bolt.

come and drive some of the cars I have seen with RS9000's on them if you think shock valving doesn't matter - they were hundreds of % too stiff they cars were underivable off road. Shock valving is a science.

Steve.

Gwagensteve wrote:I agree highway star, the OME driver's front inside Ubolt is rubbish, but it is designed to also fit the 1.0, which uses a smaller diameter bolt.

come and drive some of the cars I have seen with RS9000's on them if you think shock valving doesn't matter - they were hundreds of % too stiff they cars were underivable off road. Shock valving is a science.

Steve.

OK, that explains the terrible U-bolts.

I'm not saying that shocky valving doesn't matter, just that the shock arangement being refered to in this post (that I'm using) has good valving for the Sierra and is not terribly incorrect (which obviously those 9000's you refer to are ). It might not be as appropriate as the shocks that say OME would provide with their kits, but I believe it is a significant improvement over the standard Sierra, and definitly driveable. Just to clarify

Just for peoples info I got a set of sierra U-bolts from Ironman near Clayton on the westall rd extension intersection for $66.00. They were great blokes there too. The U-bolts are really heavy duty and were perfect.

thanks for that info Dank. i work right near there so i'll grab a set i reckon

gday, i have an 84 1L zook NT hardtop, with 31 buckshots, 40mm OME lift, drop shackle rears, greasable hilux rears on front, RAW hilux front shocks, ironman suzuki rears, but the ironmans dont work with the droppers, way too short, with my experience hilux shocks in the rear were too hard, and not enuff travel, hilux in the front work reasonably. but i really want a good set of rears to work with the droppers? any suggestions or ideas, i was thinkin about the OME long travel zook shocks they should just about hold up

I think with drop shackles it is pretty much a requirement to have a custom shock mount with really long shocks. Otherwise you just won't fit a long enough shock for the droop without bottoming out the shock on compression.

There's no such thing as a spring to "work with" a drop shackle. They are complete opposites.

Take the dumb shackles out and then the springs you have will probably work fine.

Steve.

Gwagensteve wrote:There's no such thing as a spring to "work with" a drop shackle. They are complete opposites.

Take the dumb shackles out and then the springs you have will probably work fine.

Steve.

Was he talking about the shocks or the springs

My bad.

I'll rephrase.

There's no such thing as a shock to "work with" a drop shackle. They are complete opposites.

Take the dumb shackles out and then the shock you have will probably work fine.


Much better

I love drop shackles....

Steve.

Gwagensteve wrote: Much better

I love drop shackles....

Steve.

Yer I got that impression

thought id update this thread with some of my pics too. using the same gear as TAFF.

81147 Rear gabriel - Hiace hilux
81340 Front gabriel - commodore wagon rears
OME Medium Duty Springs
new poly bushes all round
removed swaybar
OME steering dampener
everything else original.

tyres are 29" on 15x7" -18offset.

took abit over 3hrs with two people working on it.

rides alot smoother than original old suspension. A bit more stable at freeway speed. bit floaty in quick corners but not bad at all. yet to take it offroad! Should be fun

still plenty of bumpstop clearance (frnt + back)in these pics.