Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Don't know why one isn't working but you should get the idea from the chart.

Yes Beebee you only get slightly more reduction from duals, however you also retain STANDARD LOW, STANDARD HIGH and then LOW LOW.

Instead of Standard high and then LOW LOW!!

If you get what i mean!

Allows for more variety, eg if you ever get in the MUD with a vehicle with 4.7 reduction gears LOW range is to LOW where as with a Dual set-up you can still have the normal gearing!

POS wrote:Yes Beebee you only get slightly more reduction from duals, however you also retain STANDARD LOW, STANDARD HIGH and then LOW LOW.

Instead of Standard high and then LOW LOW!!

If you get what i mean!

Allows for more variety, eg if you ever get in the MUD with a vehicle with 4.7 reduction gears LOW range is to LOW where as with a Dual set-up you can still have the normal gearing!

Ok POS,
unless my math is incorrect, with a 4.7 gearset in 1st gear you get a crawl ratio of 90.14, up to 5th gear which equates to 19.50 with the 4.7. The next highest gear that you would have (assuming only one transfer case) would be 1st gear in H4. The crawl ratio of 1st H4 is 19.18 and goes up to 4.15 in 5th gear. So basically the ratios you get with only one transfer case running 4.7 gears is H4 5-1 (highest to lowest)=4.15, 4.88, 7.08, 11.37, 19.18 then L4 (with the 4.7 gearset) gives you (from 5-1)=19.50, 22.94, 33.26, 53.44, 90.14.

As I said - unless my maths is incorrect the ratios offered in H4 and L4 seem to compliment each other nicely. The chart in the previous post tried to show how the effective ratios overlap with other setups.

Guts wrote:But the high range gears in the cases are bigger and stronger then the low range section.

I don`t see this as being a problem.

Its not the gears that cause a problem in the Toyota case. Its the 21spline input shafts that commonly fail when you split the front case while still in high in the rear.

beebee wrote:

POS wrote:Yes Beebee you only get slightly more reduction from duals, however you also retain STANDARD LOW, STANDARD HIGH and then LOW LOW.

Instead of Standard high and then LOW LOW!!

If you get what i mean!

Allows for more variety, eg if you ever get in the MUD with a vehicle with 4.7 reduction gears LOW range is to LOW where as with a Dual set-up you can still have the normal gearing!

Ok POS,
unless my math is incorrect, with a 4.7 gearset in 1st gear you get a crawl ratio of 90.14, up to 5th gear which equates to 19.50 with the 4.7. The next highest gear that you would have (assuming only one transfer case) would be 1st gear in H4. The crawl ratio of 1st H4 is 19.18 and goes up to 4.15 in 5th gear. So basically the ratios you get with only one transfer case running 4.7 gears is H4 5-1 (highest to lowest)=4.15, 4.88, 7.08, 11.37, 19.18 then L4 (with the 4.7 gearset) gives you (from 5-1)=19.50, 22.94, 33.26, 53.44, 90.14.

As I said - unless my maths is incorrect the ratios offered in H4 and L4 seem to compliment each other nicely. The chart in the previous post tried to show how the effective ratios overlap with other setups.

That is some good tech Dave!

I can see your point and understand it!

However using 4th and 5th gear in a hilux gearbox in a Full throttle, Low range, tyre spinning situation is asking for Trouble!

When i was looking at Crawler gears i never factored the 4th and 5th gear into the equation!

I have nothing against the Crawler gears that are in production, i think there great its just my own personal preference to go Dual cases!

In fact i am interested in getting a set for the duals so i can have the same concept as GUTS is talking about!

Are the lower gearsets weaker than standard? I seem to remember reading on pirate that the 4.7s were suffering breakages. But then again, a lot of torque is put on the second box in a dual setup - well at least more than toyota ever designed it for. Has this caused problems? I have read that crawler gears in the first box is a recepie for disaster though.

But then that's all reading and no actual experience.

beebee wrote:Are the lower gearsets weaker than standard? I seem to remember reading on pirate that the 4.7s were suffering breakages. But then again, a lot of torque is put on the second box in a dual setup - well at least more than toyota ever designed it for. Has this caused problems? I have read that crawler gears in the first box is a recepie for disaster though.

But then that's all reading and no actual experience.

Yes i have read this aswell!

I am trying to find out!

It really goes by the same rule that Ruff is talking about!!!!

POS wrote:

beebee wrote:Are the lower gearsets weaker than standard? I seem to remember reading on pirate that the 4.7s were suffering breakages. But then again, a lot of torque is put on the second box in a dual setup - well at least more than toyota ever designed it for. Has this caused problems? I have read that crawler gears in the first box is a recepie for disaster though.

But then that's all reading and no actual experience.

Yes i have read this aswell!

I am trying to find out!

It really goes by the same rule that Ruff is talking about!!!!

Agreed

As far as i know only a few of the first batch of 4.7s failed. I have not heard of any recently.

I would not recomend using 5th gear ever if you plan on getting it. It hangs off the back of the box and is very weak. This is the single most common problem every 5spd suffers and thats not just Toyotas.

I would never go any higher than 3rd gear if i was fully getting it.

I know very little of this stuff but wouldn't 4th gear 1:1 be the strongest?

good tech guys keep it up

Yes bee bee you are correct in saying that you can go into high range and have first gear simal to a gear when in low range but try being in a winch challenge and going from low say 3rd or 4th then while on the fly changing to high range and back to 1st without stopping or loosing any speed, then 100mts down the track having to go back to low range again because you have had to come around a supper tight corner and then straight up a super steep rutted hill, then at the top of that you have a super fast down hill section again . You just can`t do it.

I only did 2 stages of the Ateco this year and if I had duals would have just been in standard low for both stages. With the rockhoppers I was in 3rd through to 5th the whole time and full on the gas the whole time and looking for more gears.

I run rockhoppers which are 4.881 or there abouts and find them great for rocks, but when it comes to winch challenges they are just to low.

What ratio are the rockhoppers? You need the deep 4.7 to really take advantage of the situation. The "advantages: of having all the extra gears still requires you to change between high and low in the first box which will require the same stuffing around as having only one box.

But having standard low range means that 4th or 5th would be the same as around (guessing) 3rd high range.

If I had standard low range I wouldn`t need to go up to high range and I wouldn`t need to go to low low, when in a winch challenge.

My top speed with rockhoppers is around 30 to 40kms but with just standard low is more like around 60 to 70 if not more (haven`t had it for that long I can`t remember )

read last post, rockhoppers are around 4.881 or there abouts, I know they are 4.8 something.


Now like I said before having reduction gears for rocks is brillant, I have never been bother by them when socail driving either, man I love having the rockhoppers and have had them for about 4 years now. But when it comes to faster comps like winch challenges they are just to low, and high range is just to high, there for standard low range would be great.

Ignore the stupid questions in the last post - I was talking on the mobile at the time. I can now see what you're getting at. Although you get a good spread with either option (gearset or duals) with the duals you have two usable "sets" of reduction gears and the standard set just happen to fit perfectly into one particular driving style whilst the double low happen to be perfect for the slow stuff. I can see your point and it is valid

Thanks for taking the time to explain it

Now worries

An excel spreadsheet that I made up. This is the one that I tried to post earlier but it didn't work.

4.0x2.72x4.56=49.61
49.61/36"=1.38
If I ever extend my wheelbase I'll look at a KlineV doubler which adds either 2.72 or 4.0 into the above permutation.....But as an overal package (not crawling) I find the setup I have is pretty flexible - but there are times I've wanted lower.....