Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Just move to a regional town where the are very few VICROADS branches or inspectors ,then when/if you get the recall on 35's turn up with a set of your mates 33's and play dumb, ARRRR they were to noisy and fuel consumption sucked so it is back on 33's orifriser would be worth a try.

Webbie wrote:Just move to a regional town where the are very few VICROADS branches or inspectors ,then when/if you get the recall on 35's turn up with a set of your mates 33's and play dumb, ARRRR they were to noisy and fuel consumption sucked so it is back on 33's orifriser would be worth a try.

except when you have an accident in an illegal vehicle

RockyF70 wrote:

Beastmavster wrote:

RockyF70 wrote:What if you don't have a tyreplacecard??? I cant find mine anywhere - Checked under bonnet, door trims, glovebox.... where can it be?

Then you have an illegal vehicle that is not allowed to be driven on Australian roads, since it does not conform with the ADR that specifies you must have it fitted.


Sorry, your rig is now spare parts use only..

Vehicles that came from the factory without one are ok... so i'm hoping mine did. One law they didn't make retrospective.

Thy arent gonna care if your car doesnt have a tyre placard, they will simply defect you and ask you to present a document from your manufacturer which specifies the origonal tyre and wheel specifications. Which means youve gotta take time out to chase this up.

In that article it says that offroad passenger vehicles can increase diametre by 50mm.

So what can i run on my GQ? Are the 265x?xr16 equivilant to a 31" or 32"

Cheers

Another bit that i just read states that when raising a vehicle the ride height muat not be changed by more than 1 third of working travel of original height to RIGID bump stop. The suspension bump and rebound positions are measured with deformable stops REMOVED.

So how much of the GQ bump stop can be removed as it is deformable?

Jimmy

RockyF70 wrote:

Beastmavster wrote:

RockyF70 wrote:

Beastmavster wrote:

RockyF70 wrote:What if you don't have a tyreplacecard??? I cant find mine anywhere - Checked under bonnet, door trims, glovebox.... where can it be?

Then you have an illegal vehicle that is not allowed to be driven on Australian roads, since it does not conform with the ADR that specifies you must have it fitted.


Sorry, your rig is now spare parts use only..

Vehicles that came from the factory without one are ok... so i'm hoping mine did. One law they didn't make retrospective.

Not if yours is made any time since the early 1970s........... Even early 70's cars mostly had them.

oh well, my crapper doesn't and its from 84. And have looked over another rocky on sunday couldn't find one on it either . Hatsu prolly forgot to put it on, wouldn't suprise me

ADR 24 and 24A came in on the 1/1/87. If your car's build date is before that you are "A-OK" if you dont have a tyre placard. Manufactures may have fitted them but before that stage they were only optional.

So you 84 model hatsi doesn't require one by law, and no-one can tell you that it must be there. If anyone does, RTA or Pink slip inspector, tell them to refer to that ADR.

Gribble wrote:

RockyF70 wrote:

Beastmavster wrote:

RockyF70 wrote:

Beastmavster wrote: Then you have an illegal vehicle that is not allowed to be driven on Australian roads, since it does not conform with the ADR that specifies you must have it fitted.


Sorry, your rig is now spare parts use only..

Vehicles that came from the factory without one are ok... so i'm hoping mine did. One law they didn't make retrospective.

Not if yours is made any time since the early 1970s........... Even early 70's cars mostly had them.

oh well, my crapper doesn't and its from 84. And have looked over another rocky on sunday couldn't find one on it either . Hatsu prolly forgot to put it on, wouldn't suprise me

ADR 24 and 24A came in on the 1/1/87. If your car's build date is before that you are "A-OK" if you dont have a tyre placard. Manufactures may have fitted them but before that stage they were only optional.

So you 84 model hatsi doesn't require one by law, and no-one can tell you that it must be there. If anyone does, RTA or Pink slip inspector, tell them to refer to that ADR.

My Zuk doesnt have one, and my Rover only specifys rim size!


Would that make it easyer to get a engineers for bigger tires?

MADZUKI wrote:

Gribble wrote:

RockyF70 wrote:

Beastmavster wrote:

RockyF70 wrote: Vehicles that came from the factory without one are ok... so i'm hoping mine did. One law they didn't make retrospective.

Not if yours is made any time since the early 1970s........... Even early 70's cars mostly had them.

oh well, my crapper doesn't and its from 84. And have looked over another rocky on sunday couldn't find one on it either . Hatsu prolly forgot to put it on, wouldn't suprise me

ADR 24 and 24A came in on the 1/1/87. If your car's build date is before that you are "A-OK" if you dont have a tyre placard. Manufactures may have fitted them but before that stage they were only optional.

So you 84 model hatsi doesn't require one by law, and no-one can tell you that it must be there. If anyone does, RTA or Pink slip inspector, tell them to refer to that ADR.

My Zuk doesnt have one, and my Rover only specifys rim size!


Would that make it easyer to get a engineers for bigger tires?

Its up to the engineer and what he deems safe or not. If he follows this new code buisness then probably not any easier than a new GU patrol.

but by that logic a pre 1987 vehicle could run any size tyre up to 33"? Even a suzi?

If they let you have 33s on anything pre 1987, there's a lot of fun to be had with smaller 4WDs. A LOT of fun.

Does anyone not think that our bigger 4WDs are going to go the way of the dodo? We've got:

(a) tougher regulations;
(b) skyrocketing fuel prices;
(c) public hate campaigns;
(d) declining sales of new ones.

Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if we all poured our money into Sierras and SAS'd Vitaras instead of cruisers, rangies, and patrols.

chimpboy wrote:If they let you have 33s on anything pre 1987, there's a lot of fun to be had with smaller 4WDs. A LOT of fun.

Does anyone not think that our bigger 4WDs are going to go the way of the dodo? We've got:

(a) tougher regulations;
(b) skyrocketing fuel prices;
(c) public hate campaigns;
(d) declining sales of new ones.

Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if we all poured our money into Sierras and SAS'd Vitaras instead of cruisers, rangies, and patrols.

you are seeing the bigger picture at last.

bogged wrote:

chimpboy wrote:If they let you have 33s on anything pre 1987, there's a lot of fun to be had with smaller 4WDs. A LOT of fun.

Does anyone not think that our bigger 4WDs are going to go the way of the dodo? We've got:

(a) tougher regulations;
(b) skyrocketing fuel prices;
(c) public hate campaigns;
(d) declining sales of new ones.

Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if we all poured our money into Sierras and SAS'd Vitaras instead of cruisers, rangies, and patrols.

you are seeing the bigger picture at last.

Umm, thank you. To be honest this isn't something I only just realised.

When are YOU switching over to a Sierra?

DAMKIA wrote:

ats4x4dotcom wrote:

DAMKIA wrote:

AlbyOne wrote:

DAMKIA wrote:I've got tomorrow off. I'm going to go to Vicroads and find out for sure.

Enough of this conjecture.............

(Might have to park a few streets away )

Just remember, there are still cars being engineered, and with mods suited to what we do, and all you have to do is download the links on page one, and then book an engineer to get the info you require, as they are now engineering to those new regs as per links in this thread, so, apart from wasting your time at Vic roads tomorrow, im not sure what it is your attempting to achieve, that you could actually do more thoroughly, and more easily, with info you already have at your fingertips, from work, or home.

Ever tried to register a car on the Club Permit Scheme in Vic?

You soon learn that Vicroads Staff have NFI about anything other than processing a rego renewal or issuing licences.

You'll be there for weeks.

Thats why they have the DOTARS and engineers, as this is where you go for that information, not the Vic Roads office, as they will just get you to contact the right dept anyway.

Yes, but it won't be DOTARS that are pulling us over or issuing the recalls...........

And it wont be your Vic Roads office counter jockey either, like I said, you need to go to the right dept.......

no tyre placard doesnt mean you can run whatever tyre you want

the regulation is still based on the tyres/wheels that were origonally fitted to the vehicle.

There is a Govt linkf for vehicle specs, susp, weights, rims etc.

http://rvcs-prodweb.dot.gov.au/pls/wwws ... ify_Search

Bazzle

bazzle wrote:There is a Govt linkf for vehicle specs, susp, weights, rims etc.

http://rvcs-prodweb.dot.gov.au/pls/wwws ... ify_Search

Bazzle

Ok. So I go and look up a new patrol.

Current Patrol:
http://rvcs-prodweb.dot.gov.au/perl/124 ... 083357.cmd

From this website the current Patrol has the following suspension specs:
(All measurments are made as Vertical measurement wheel centre to top of wheel arch opening)
Unladen mass. Front: 555mm Rear: 560mm
Full bump. Front: 445mm Rear: 420mm

Therefore total suspension travel is:
Front: 110mm Rear: 140mm

Factor this in with the Regulations.....

bogged wrote: A maximum of 100mm in lift over body and suspension is also the maximum allowed, or no more than 1/3 of the original travel.

... and if I've got it right, a new patrol can only have a maximum lift of 36mm (Front) and 46mm (Rear).

Am I missing something?

you need to include droop as well as uptravel? Im guessing it would be about double. I may be wrong.

What about measured with deformable stops REMOVED as stated in the guide

From Exploroz..
http://www.dotars.gov.au/transport/safe ... eb2006.pdf

Hmmmmmmmmm, very interesting..........

I just looked at that site.....page 18 of the 71 page document talks about tyre sizes. Looking at the chart, a vehicle which was manufactured with 265 size tyres, can go up to 385mm size tyres!!!! I think I must have misinterpreted it??
That would make 315/75s quite okay on a Patrol or Cruiser....


Also note the rim sizes they mention, up to 13.5inch on low profile and 10inch rims on 65/85 profile tires..

Am I reading that right?

chimpboy wrote:When are YOU switching over to a Sierra?

they dont make a big enough shoehorn..

you need to include droop as well as uptravel? Im guessing it would be about double. I may be wrong.

bogged wrote:From Exploroz..
http://www.dotars.gov.au/transport/safe ... eb2006.pdf

Hmmmmmmmmm, very interesting..........

I just looked at that site.....page 18 of the 71 page document talks about tyre sizes. Looking at the chart, a vehicle which was manufactured with 265 size tyres, can go up to 385mm size tyres!!!! I think I must have misinterpreted it??
That would make 315/75s quite okay on a Patrol or Cruiser....


Also note the rim sizes they mention, up to 13.5inch on low profile and 10inch rims on 65/85 profile tires..

Am I reading that right?

As long as it is no larger than 50mm in diameter (and around in circles we go................)

You reckon we've got no idea....neither have Vicroads. No-one there has done any training on the implementation of the new rules, and they have no clear indication yet on how to interpret the bulk of the rules. They too are "winging it" for the moment, doing as directed from the minister. (from Clayton Vicraods). Spent an hour and a half there, walked away with the distinct feeling that it is a bit of an election "clean-up" to prove the Govt are doing "something" about the nasty 4WD's.

"Lean on your local members" was what I was told about the recalling of registrations, as this is not really what Vicroads want (not without a hefty increase in funding/staffing). I guess we have three months to put pen to paper, AND TO VISIT THE MP's PERSONALLY. If enough ppl knock on their door and organise meetings with them they have to listen.

muppet_man67 wrote:you need to include droop as well as uptravel? Im guessing it would be about double. I may be wrong.

Supposedly it cannot be changed more than 1/3 either way (above normal travel), but that probably wouldn't stop you from using a sway bar to limit the total "constrained" travel with super long travel suspension, and disconnecting the bar in the bush.

working out lift from original travel doesn't mean that the new suspension can't have more travel. You can make a suspension work alot better with more travel without having to lift it. Lifting a suspension, especially on a lef sprung vejicle usuaully results in less travel due to stiffer springs beingused. Does it say anything about using longer springs because that is where travel can come from

This could lead to alot better thought suspension systems

bogged wrote:From Exploroz..
http://www.dotars.gov.au/transport/safe ... eb2006.pdf

Hmmmmmmmmm, very interesting..........

I just looked at that site.....page 18 of the 71 page document talks about tyre sizes. Looking at the chart, a vehicle which was manufactured with 265 size tyres, can go up to 385mm size tyres!!!! I think I must have misinterpreted it??
That would make 315/75s quite okay on a Patrol or Cruiser....


Also note the rim sizes they mention, up to 13.5inch on low profile and 10inch rims on 65/85 profile tires..

Am I reading that right?

385mm wide... but not more than 50mm total diameter. Good luck finding 385/60/16's

DAMKIA wrote:

bogged wrote:From Exploroz..
http://www.dotars.gov.au/transport/safe ... eb2006.pdf

Hmmmmmmmmm, very interesting..........

I just looked at that site.....page 18 of the 71 page document talks about tyre sizes. Looking at the chart, a vehicle which was manufactured with 265 size tyres, can go up to 385mm size tyres!!!! I think I must have misinterpreted it??
That would make 315/75s quite okay on a Patrol or Cruiser....


Also note the rim sizes they mention, up to 13.5inch on low profile and 10inch rims on 65/85 profile tires..

Am I reading that right?

As long as it is no larger than 50mm in diameter (and around in circles we go................)

You reckon we've got no idea....neither have Vicroads. No-one there has done any training on the implementation of the new rules, and they have no clear indication yet on how to interpret the bulk of the rules. They too are "winging it" for the moment, doing as directed from the minister. (from Clayton Vicraods). Spent an hour and a half there, walked away with the distinct feeling that it is a bit of an election "clean-up" to prove the Govt are doing "something" about the nasty 4WD's.

"Lean on your local members" was what I was told about the recalling of registrations, as this is not really what Vicroads want (not without a hefty increase in funding/staffing). I guess we have three months to put pen to paper, AND TO VISIT THE MP's PERSONALLY. If enough ppl knock on their door and organise meetings with them they have to listen.

The one dept is handling the new regs, so, you need to go to an engineer, to get the low down on the regs, because you dont have access to the dept they do, while they train up the rest of the staff.

But dont think because the office doesnt know, that it isnt happening, as the info comes from the crew implementing it, not the ones who havent been trained yet.

Had a long chat today with a helpful Vehicle Inspector from TransportSA.

SA remains unchanged in that:
4WDs are limited to a 50mm increase in tyre diameter over the size stated on the placard. Bigger tyres require eng cert.

Spring lifts are limited to a one third increase to the original OVERALL travel. Bigger lifts are OK with eng cert.

Increase in wheel offset is limited to 26mm overall for passenger vehicles and 4WDs with IFS, IRS or both. For 4WDs wive live front and rear axles the offset can increase by 51mm.

This is the current situation in SA and he doesnt believe anything will be changing.

Whell it is muddy waters that we are in.My truck is a hybrid,Has land crusier running gear and tyres.When the truck was standard it ran 700/16 splits but with duels on the back.Now has standard landcruiser 750/16 tyres.And there was never a tyre placard with this beast.Has a id plate both for the origanl truck and the 45cruiser.At least I don`t ned a body lift,that comes standard with a truck chassi.Missus needs a milk crate to get up into the cab.Looks like all you standard modded fourby`s have got some worring times ahead.
Cheers

most of you guys are missing the point. As long as your car is in reasonable condition and looks well maintained, has mudflaps, all the lights work, does not have a stupidly high lift and massive tyres you will have no dramas. I doubt they will target every single vehicle. If however you are one of the idiots who drive something with 8 inches of lift and 38 inch tyres on the road then i'd expect some attention. Adopt stealth tactics - have your vehicle that is safe and well maintained that blends in and drive in a manner that does not attract attention and you will fly under the radar (and don't crash!)

Gribble wrote:

MADZUKI wrote:

Gribble wrote:

RockyF70 wrote:

Beastmavster wrote:
Not if yours is made any time since the early 1970s........... Even early 70's cars mostly had them.

oh well, my crapper doesn't and its from 84. And have looked over another rocky on sunday couldn't find one on it either . Hatsu prolly forgot to put it on, wouldn't suprise me

ADR 24 and 24A came in on the 1/1/87. If your car's build date is before that you are "A-OK" if you dont have a tyre placard. Manufactures may have fitted them but before that stage they were only optional.

So you 84 model hatsi doesn't require one by law, and no-one can tell you that it must be there. If anyone does, RTA or Pink slip inspector, tell them to refer to that ADR.

My Zuk doesnt have one, and my Rover only specifys rim size!


Would that make it easyer to get a engineers for bigger tires?

Its up to the engineer and what he deems safe or not. If he follows this new code buisness then probably not any easier than a new GU patrol.

I only want 31's ... thats reasonable. no one, not even the RTA can deny me that