Tough Dog Tuff Truck Challenge 2008 - Latest Updates

[Pyrotech]

if you mean the correction then no.
its now totally wrong mate.
should read
driver anthony neill
navi EMO james.

cheers.

[`maddog]

Part of me is surprised to see that all 4 reserves are big name TTC drivers who have participated in most, if not all, of the previous TTC's to date.

The reason I'm not totally surprised is because I know the reason why, and whilst it may be for a 'good cause', I'm not sure it's really in the spirit of the public voting system and has certainly altered the outcome of what the votes would have been otherwise.

We made it in, now we just need to finish the Jeep

[DIRTY ROCK STAR]

yeah but you are paying the entry building a car, why not buy a few mags or a small donation?
maybe people were looking to see new rigs?
before voting went silent all of those teams had very few votes.

[j-top paj]

maybe people were looking to see new rigs?

thats what im looking forward to

[`maddog]

yeah but you are paying the entry building a car, why not buy a few mags or a small donation?
maybe people were looking to see new rigs?
before voting went silent all of those teams had very few votes.

This is far from buying a few mags..

We're in, so it doesn't particularly affect me. More a comment on the overall situation.

[OVERKILL ENG]

I have never been a fan of the voting system since the first TTC. We didn't vote for ourselves or buy peoples votes .So we have only ourselves to blame for not getting in . Hopefully the organisers will see this year how bad a system it is and do something for next .
Is a shame as I was looking forward to showing off the new Truck and it definately would have turned some heads and upset a few of the regulars.

SAM

[Podge]

Hopefully the organisers will see this year how bad a system it is and do something for next .

It is great of you to provide your EXPERT opinion and do nothing but critisize. However, in the same token if you feel it necessary to bag the organisers why don't you also offer a solution at the same time?? It could give credibility to what you're saying.

I have heard it on so many occasions where people don't agree with the voting system but nobody has come forward with a better method. The TTC organisers are listening and waiting for what might be a workable solution.

Pagie

[RUFF]

Hopefully the organisers will see this year how bad a system it is and do something for next .

It is great of you to provide your EXPERT opinion and do nothing but critisize. However, in the same token if you feel it necessary to bag the organisers why don't you also offer a solution at the same time?? It could give credibility to what you're saying.

I have heard it on so many occasions where people don't agree with the voting system but nobody has come forward with a better method. The TTC organisers are listening and waiting for what might be a workable solution.

Pagie

Why is there even any need to have a voting system?

[Podge]

Hopefully the organisers will see this year how bad a system it is and do something for next .

It is great of you to provide your EXPERT opinion and do nothing but critisize. However, in the same token if you feel it necessary to bag the organisers why don't you also offer a solution at the same time?? It could give credibility to what you're saying.

I have heard it on so many occasions where people don't agree with the voting system but nobody has come forward with a better method. The TTC organisers are listening and waiting for what might be a workable solution.

Pagie

Why is there even any need to have a voting system?

Lets go back to one of the basics of Tuff Truck. The event sees a field 40 competitors, this comes about by teams placing nominations to get into that field of 40. The system that is currently in place requires those 40 to be voted in and also contributes to determining the running order. That is the reason for the "need" to have a voting system.

This has been the method which has been used since the beginning of the event and it has worked well in that time. Again, if you have a better method of acheiving the end result that is required to find that field, please provide a solution. I assure you the TTC organisers have looked at every conceivable option but can't see anything better-yet!!

[DIRTY ROCK STAR]

Hopefully the organisers will see this year how bad a system it is and do something for next .

It is great of you to provide your EXPERT opinion and do nothing but critisize. However, in the same token if you feel it necessary to bag the organisers why don't you also offer a solution at the same time?? It could give credibility to what you're saying.

I have heard it on so many occasions where people don't agree with the voting system but nobody has come forward with a better method. The TTC organisers are listening and waiting for what might be a workable solution.

Pagie

Why is there even any need to have a voting system?

how else would you decide running order?
lotto draw?
draw short straw?
rock scissors paper challenge?
if it was to do with manhood well you know get the tape measure out

one thing i do think needs looking at, the top 3 obviously have awesome trucks. should they not go last to make it abit harder for them to establish a monopoly?

[Nev]

I have never been a fan of the voting system since the first TTC. We didn't vote for ourselves or buy peoples votes .So we have only ourselves to blame for not getting in . Hopefully the organisers will see this year how bad a system it is and do something for next .
Is a shame as I was looking forward to showing off the new Truck and it definately would have turned some heads and upset a few of the regulars.

SAM

I actually read this and thought it was really good of Sam to be so gracious about the situation seeing as he has gone and built a rig especially for the event and coming from his garage it will no doubt he a headturner and driven hard and yet still doesn't get in. Don't get me wrong I appreciate as with any event the organisers would do an extraordinary amount of work that goes unrecognised to get the comp to even be run but must agree that it should be changed. Also as Ruff said, why have a voting system? I don't know of any other comps that run this way.

[RUFF]

Hopefully the organisers will see this year how bad a system it is and do something for next .

It is great of you to provide your EXPERT opinion and do nothing but critisize. However, in the same token if you feel it necessary to bag the organisers why don't you also offer a solution at the same time?? It could give credibility to what you're saying.

I have heard it on so many occasions where people don't agree with the voting system but nobody has come forward with a better method. The TTC organisers are listening and waiting for what might be a workable solution.

Pagie

Why is there even any need to have a voting system?

Lets go back to basics. The event/product sees a field 40 competitors, this comes about by teams placing nominations to get into that field of 40. The system that is currently in place requires those 40 to be voted in and also contributes to determining the running order. That is the reason for the "need" to have a voting system.

Again, if you have a better method of acheiving the end result that is required to find that field, please provide a solution.

Correct me if im wrong but the voting has not allways been used to determine the running order.

There are a heap of other established 4x4 events in Australia and across the world that exist with a Maximum competitor cut off and do not use voting. So it obviously works without the voting.



First in with a payed entry competes. Draw the competitors out of a hat.

[RUFF]

how else would you decide running order?
lotto draw?
draw short straw?
rock scissors paper challenge?
if it was to do with manhood well you know get the tape measure out

one thing i do think needs looking at, the top 3 obviously have awesome trucks. should they not go last to make it abit harder for them to establish a monopoly?

How do you think all these other events in Australia exsist and run smoothly without the voting system?

[RUFF]

I don't know of any other comps that run this way.

I beleive Top Truck in the US is run this way. But im fairly sure voting is from Subscribers only and they can only vote once each.

[DIRTY ROCK STAR]

well most are club based. or team based.
so first in best dressed.

buggy events dont seem to have had too many entrants so not an issue yet.

i guess first in best dressed could work?

[RUFF]

well most are club based. or team based.
so first in best dressed.

buggy events dont seem to have had too many entrants so not an issue yet.

i guess first in best dressed could work?

It works at OBC,Cliffhanger,Ateco,Xtreme Winch Challenge,Xtreme international winch challenge,Malasian Winch challenge,Woodpecker,Nissan Trials,Logan Challenge,Tough Tracks, And most events held at either Offroad Expo or Mud Bulls and Music at Landcruiser Park just to name a few.

[`maddog]

Hopefully the organisers will see this year how bad a system it is and do something for next .

It is great of you to provide your EXPERT opinion and do nothing but critisize. However, in the same token if you feel it necessary to bag the organisers why don't you also offer a solution at the same time?? It could give credibility to what you're saying.

I have heard it on so many occasions where people don't agree with the voting system but nobody has come forward with a better method. The TTC organisers are listening and waiting for what might be a workable solution.

Pagie

Why is there even any need to have a voting system?

Lets go back to one of the basics of Tuff Truck. The event sees a field 40 competitors, this comes about by teams placing nominations to get into that field of 40. The system that is currently in place requires those 40 to be voted in and also contributes to determining the running order. That is the reason for the "need" to have a voting system.

This has been the method which has been used since the beginning of the event and it has worked well in that time. Again, if you have a better method of acheiving the end result that is required to find that field, please provide a solution. I assure you the TTC organisers have looked at every conceivable option but can't see anything better-yet!!

Except that in this case it looks like whoever is willing to spend the most money to buy votes from a particular person who purchased 200+ magazines gets a run.

[OVERKILL ENG]

Hopefully the organisers will see this year how bad a system it is and do something for next .

It is great of you to provide your EXPERT opinion and do nothing but critisize. However, in the same token if you feel it necessary to bag the organisers why don't you also offer a solution at the same time?? It could give credibility to what you're saying.

I have heard it on so many occasions where people don't agree with the voting system but nobody has come forward with a better method. The TTC organisers are listening and waiting for what might be a workable solution.

Pagie

Okay here we go.
I personnally think you need some sort of Qualifiing system . Say lets say you get 40 Nominations split them into 2 groups of 20 trucks hold a seperate comp over 2 days for each group no spectators or anything top 15 cars from each group go through. that way you are only getting the top 30 teams. That way you will end up with the toughest 30 cars in the country which is what TTC promote there event to beeing.

SAM

[chunderlicious]

i recon do it xtreme winch style.first in best dressed. first entrant runs first even. pull the order out of a hat maybe. you could even do reserve list for initial entrants incase people pull out or the car isnt up to a satisfactory standard.

or as sam said. it is tuff truck after all

[RUFF]

I assure you the TTC organisers have looked at every conceivable option but can't see anything better-yet!!

I never noticed this edit till after i read Sam's reply.

The way it stands now with the voting you may as well list the 40 TTC entries on Ebay and let people bid for their entries. Because this is esentially what they are doing right now. If you want a position at TTC you need to buy the magazines to get the voting forms to get a position in the 40. So essentially they are bidding their way in to this event.

As competitors or former competitors we all know for FACT that this is how it works. It may not be how you guys really want it to work but it is exactly how it works.

The Voting System is a total Sham.

[RUFF]

Please do not take this the wrong way. I think the event is great. I just think the voting system sucks.

[the gun]

Now once one team buys a shit load of magazines and sell the votes between other nominees which the organisers encouraged then does this make it not so much a Public voting system. I know a charity was the main winner out of all this and top points to those involved.
Just a question purely out of curiosity out of the votes that were sold within the competitors what percentage did this add up to.


SAM

Ok here is my two cents worth.
Yes it is a good cause but the way which the voting process was bastardised ment that the voting public proper didn't get a chance. It seems that there where 8000 odd votes for sale. And for the record we made it into tuff truck without being blackmailed into buying votes.

Glenn

redback mountaineers

[`maddog]

I assure you the TTC organisers have looked at every conceivable option but can't see anything better-yet!!

I never noticed this edit till after i read Sam's reply.

The way it stands now with the voting you may as well list the 40 TTC entries on Ebay and let people bid for their entries. Because this is esentially what they are doing right now. If you want a position at TTC you need to buy the magazines to get the voting forms to get a position in the 40. So essentially they are bidding their way in to this event.

As competitors or former competitors we all know for FACT that this is how it works. It may not be how you guys really want it to work but it is exactly how it works.

The Voting System is a total Sham.

Tony the voting system isn't so bad because you have to buy the magazines. The problem this year IMO is that one person bought over 200 magazines and was selling individual votes.

As Sam said in his deleted post ( ) yes the charity is the winner in the end as they get the money, but it throws the balance of the voting system into disarray. I'm not really against a voting system at all, although Sam's idea of qualifiers also sounds good, but I'm not sure one person buying the majority of votes and selling them off is particularly healthy for the event.

[the gun]

[quote="`maddog
Tony the voting system isn't so bad because you have to buy the magazines. The problem this year IMO is that one person bought over 200 magazines and was selling individual votes.

the competetors were notifed there were 250 mags up for grabs (3750 votes), but as many teams would know that number blu out to 8000 or so. In the start tuff truck knew only of the original amount, which means imo that everyone was taken for a ride.

Glenn

[Strange Rover]

I have said it before but I think that the current voting system works well.

I said back in 2004...

Like I said in the Tuff Truck discussion thread a while ago. I like the magazine voting system. The competitors that will get voted in will be
- seasoned competitors that have a big public following
- new competitors that work there arses off and market themselves to get the public support
- and new competitors who buy heaps of mags and vote themselves in

Either way is fine by me.

Sam

I think what I said back them still stands very true.

There was an extra way to get in this year and that was to buy "charity" votes...I dont have a problem with this cause its basically the same method as buying magazines - just a bit easier cause you dont have actually round up a heap of mags and fill them out.

I believe that if Sam Keck or Glen Dobbin were really serious about wanting to compete in this competition then they would have easily made the cut.

Each competitors votes is updated regularly on the Tuff Truck site. Glen and Sam would have known they weren't getting votes from other people so they would have known that if they wanted to guarantee themselves an entry then they would have to make it happen themselves.

Why didnt they make it happen themselves??? Either - they didnt have to money to buy themselves the needed votes OR they weren't to worried about whether they competed or not.

IMO the voting system works perfectly. Possibly the only person it may discriminate against is a competitor who struggles to get public support with a really cool tuff truck that doesent have the money or resources to round up enough votes - but, hey, thats how the world works.

Sam

[RUFF]

I assure you the TTC organisers have looked at every conceivable option but can't see anything better-yet!!

I never noticed this edit till after i read Sam's reply.

The way it stands now with the voting you may as well list the 40 TTC entries on Ebay and let people bid for their entries. Because this is esentially what they are doing right now. If you want a position at TTC you need to buy the magazines to get the voting forms to get a position in the 40. So essentially they are bidding their way in to this event.

As competitors or former competitors we all know for FACT that this is how it works. It may not be how you guys really want it to work but it is exactly how it works.

The Voting System is a total Sham.

Tony the voting system isn't so bad because you have to buy the magazines. The problem this year IMO is that one person bought over 200 magazines and was selling individual votes.

As Sam said in his deleted post ( ) yes the charity is the winner in the end as they get the money, but it throws the balance of the voting system into disarray. I'm not really against a voting system at all, although Sam's idea of qualifiers also sounds good, but I'm not sure one person buying the majority of votes and selling them off is particularly healthy for the event.

The 200 mags offered for Charity are just the tip of the iceberg. I know individuals that have in the past bought 30+ magazines just to guarentee their position. And Sponsors that have done similar and more to guarentee their sponsored vehicle a position.

I would actually be interested in knowing how many people actually took the offer of buying the votes for charity?

As it stands if you want to run 1st your entry fee increases substatially simply because you need to buy the magazines to get that position. Or even to possibly get a position. TTC may not get your money but it still comes out of your pocket no matter how you do it.

[`maddog]

I have said it before but I think that the current voting system works well.

I said back in 2004...

Like I said in the Tuff Truck discussion thread a while ago. I like the magazine voting system. The competitors that will get voted in will be
- seasoned competitors that have a big public following
- new competitors that work there arses off and market themselves to get the public support
- and new competitors who buy heaps of mags and vote themselves in

Either way is fine by me.

Sam

I think what I said back them still stands very true.

There was an extra way to get in this year and that was to buy "charity" votes...I dont have a problem with this cause its basically the same method as buying magazines - just a bit easier cause you dont have actually round up a heap of mags and fill them out.

I believe that if Sam Keck or Glen Dobbin were really serious about wanting to compete in this competition then they would have easily made the cut.

Each competitors votes is updated regularly on the Tuff Truck site. Glen and Sam would have known they weren't getting votes from other people so they would have known that if they wanted to guarantee themselves an entry then they would have to make it happen themselves.

Why didnt they make it happen themselves??? Either - they didnt have to money to buy themselves the needed votes OR they weren't to worried about whether they competed or not.

IMO the voting system works perfectly. Possibly the only person it may discriminate against is a competitor who struggles to get public support with a really cool tuff truck that doesent have the money or resources to round up enough votes - but, hey, thats how the world works.

Sam

The votes were all dumped on at the last minute Sam. The person selling the votes was accumulating them and posted them all in at once. So if you didn't check the website in the last day or so, you wouldn't have known.

What about those that don't have access to the internet or don't check it regularly as part of their day to day doings? I can't see someone like Glen getting on the web each night to check his TTC votes. Does that mean he is less worthy of competing?

[`maddog]

The 200 mags offered for Charity are just the tip of the iceberg. I know individuals that have in the past bought 30+ magazines just to guarentee their position. And Sponsors that have done similar and more to guarentee their sponsored vehicle a position.

I would actually be interested in knowing how many people actually took the offer of buying the votes for charity?

As it stands if you want to run 1st your entry fee increases substatially simply because you need to buy the magazines to get that position. Or even to possibly get a position. TTC may not get your money but it still comes out of your pocket no matter how you do it.

I was told by the person buying mags and selling votes that he had already sold 6000 votes at the stage he was calling me to try to get me to buy votes. He indicated that he had a further 2000 votes to sell.

[Strange Rover]

I was told by the person buying mags and selling votes that he had already sold 6000 votes at the stage he was calling me to try to get me to buy votes. He indicated that he had a further 2000 votes to sell.

Anybody got the final vote tally??? I carnt imagine that the "charity" votes would have had any effect on which competitors didnt make the final cut.

Sam

[the gun]

Anybody got the final vote tally??? I carnt imagine that the "charity" votes would have had any effect on which competitors didnt make the final cut.

Sam[/quote]



we were sitting pretty at 9th until the final count and have come in 30th.
what do u think, no effect?