Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hamo's a terd who in their wright mind would give up a new winch (Gun fires a bit harsh but looks cool)If thats the after sale service I'm getting one of those Tiger winches

Something isn't right here...

Anyway what was involved in the winch off and over what duration?
What caused the tigerz winch to burn out?

I have a similar winch but the 5.5hp/4.0kw motor.

Odd ....

Props to tigerz for the offer, nonetheless ....

Hamo wrote:

tigerz11 wrote:hamo
well done for having the balls to show up and having a crack ,,yes i will replace your winch,,with a new one
regards tigerz11

Well it apears tigerz11 want's to exchange my winch for a new one not just replace it for my effort.
i was going to get my old one repaired for my son to put on his shorty 40
i guess i just repair this one for myself and not bother to stick up for and plug his winch anymore

ungrateful ass clown

hamo, hardern the fark up!


tigerz, good on ya for the offer, kudos to you.

I'm ungrateful am i
Well tigerz11 didn't turn up for the winch off
Tigerz11 offered to replace my bunt out winch with a new one
by the time i send it to him and by the time i pay for the new one to be sent to me it whould be cheaper & faster to have an auto elec fix it.
If you want to buy one off him go ahead be my guest
at least i showed up for the winch off

Hamo wrote:I'm ungrateful am i
Well tigerz11 didn't turn up for the winch off
Tigerz11 offered to replace my bunt out winch with a new one
by the time i send it to him and by the time i pay for the new one to be sent to me it whould be cheaper & faster to have an auto elec fix it.
If you want to buy one off him go ahead be my guest
at least i showed up for the winch off

Yes you are ungreatfull.

You went into this winch off on your own. No one asked you to do it. You also said you didnt care if it(your winch) broke.
Tigerz11 offered to replace your burnt out winch free of charge. Replace not give you a winch for free. He had no reason to need to do this at all. He never asked you to attend this winch off for him.


If it was cheaper to get your winch fixed by an auto elec then why didnt you say this and thank him for the offer rather than trying to make Tigerz out to be an asshole. When obviously he was trying to help you out.

i recieved an email from overseas last month asking was i interested in this new winch and design ,,,i am not mechanically minded so i thought i would put part of the email up and see what you blokes think ,,i have some photos but how do i put them up,,?? does this mean anything or is it just crap !!!! I have kept out the designers name and the patented models that is all
STARTS BELOW

Our designer, is the former general engineer of T-max, who designed nearly all the winches for T-max. All below features are patented!



Presently we mainly have two series available

The main difference between the two as following:

1. The Control Box. See the attached pictures please. A separate but integrated fork-lift style relay is used in the control box for Top-Value Series. You may have known this kind of relay is becoming more and more popular for electric winches, due to the high efficiency and better durability. But no separate and independent relay is used in the control box for Two-Speed Series. The whole control is just like an integrated relay but works like four relays inside to enhance the reliability. Sometimes, because of the problem of the relay (normal), the winch could not be stopped. But this situation will never happen to the control box for Two-Speed Series.

2. Clutch System. As normal, Top-Value Series has only two options, IN and OUT (engagement and disengagement). But for Two-Speed Series, there are three options, the first is IN with High Speed (@28m/min) under no load. The second is IN but with normal line speed under heavy load; the third is OUT for disengagement. The high speed option is out of the consideration that sometimes the operator needs a quick line speed, for example, to spool in the cable.

The common advantage of the two series, which are unique from us and the solutions to the weakness of nowadays winches in the market:

1. The Bidirectional and Electromagnetic braking (BE Braker) is located inside the motor instead of drum as most mechanic brakes do. As a result, no friction happens between the brake and winch drum during wire rope spool out, so no heating to the winch drum. The brake force of BE Braker is fixed at 110% of winch rated line pull no matter how much the load winch is working. But for the normal brakes, the braking force always equals to the load numerically. This BE Braker is capable of using as a hoist brake. But anyway the winch cannot be used as a hoist because of different safety factor requirement and work duty.

2. Adjustable Torque Limiter. The normal torque limiter to winch is in the drum. If the torque limiter functions several times, the winch pulling capacity may come down because the inside friction force of the normal torque limiter lowers after several times functions. In this case, this torque limiter must be replaced by a new one. We put the torque limiter inside the winch gear box and make it adjustable. So when the pulling capacity of the winch becomes smaller apparently, the operator can adjust the torque limiter by himself to recover the winch max capacity. Additionally, to the emergent situations, the operator may stop the function of the torque limiter to make the winch work to the limits by shift the special adjusting tab, which is impossible for the normal torque limiter.

3. Intelligent handheld control. It can spy the battery condition and inspect electric connections by the indicator on it. Also, this control can adhere to the car body (or any iron or steel surface) because of carrying the magnetism.

You can find all the features of our winch are focusing on high durability, high reliability, more practical functions and etc. Attached pictures for your reference.



[/img]

to post up pics, go to http://www.photobucket.com and set up an account, then upload your pics to there, then use the image code related to each picture and post those codes in this forum

[quote="tigerz11"]i recieved an email from overseas last month asking was i interested in this new winch and design ,,,i am not mechanically minded so i thought i would put part of the email up and see what you blokes think ,,i have some photos but how do i put them up,,?? does this mean anything or is it just crap !!!! I have kept out the designers name and the patented models that is all
STARTS BELOW

Our designer, is the former general engineer of T-max, who designed nearly all the winches for T-max. All below features are patented!



Presently we mainly have two series available

The main difference between the two as following:

1. The Control Box. See the attached pictures please. A separate but integrated fork-lift style relay is used in the control box for Top-Value Series. You may have known this kind of relay is becoming more and more popular for electric winches, due to the high efficiency and better durability. But no separate and independent relay is used in the control box for Two-Speed Series. The whole control is just like an integrated relay but works like four relays inside to enhance the reliability. Sometimes, because of the problem of the relay (normal), the winch could not be stopped. But this situation will never happen to the control box for Two-Speed Series.

2. Clutch System. As normal, Top-Value Series has only two options, IN and OUT (engagement and disengagement). But for Two-Speed Series, there are three options, the first is IN with High Speed (@28m/min) under no load. The second is IN but with normal line speed under heavy load; the third is OUT for disengagement. The high speed option is out of the consideration that sometimes the operator needs a quick line speed, for example, to spool in the cable.

The common advantage of the two series, which are unique from us and the solutions to the weakness of nowadays winches in the market:

1. The Bidirectional and Electromagnetic braking (BE Braker) is located inside the motor instead of drum as most mechanic brakes do. As a result, no friction happens between the brake and winch drum during wire rope spool out, so no heating to the winch drum. The brake force of BE Braker is fixed at 110% of winch rated line pull no matter how much the load winch is working. But for the normal brakes, the braking force always equals to the load numerically. This BE Braker is capable of using as a hoist brake. But anyway the winch cannot be used as a hoist because of different safety factor requirement and work duty.

2. Adjustable Torque Limiter. The normal torque limiter to winch is in the drum. If the torque limiter functions several times, the winch pulling capacity may come down because the inside friction force of the normal torque limiter lowers after several times functions. In this case, this torque limiter must be replaced by a new one. We put the torque limiter inside the winch gear box and make it adjustable. So when the pulling capacity of the winch becomes smaller apparently, the operator can adjust the torque limiter by himself to recover the winch max capacity. Additionally, to the emergent situations, the operator may stop the function of the torque limiter to make the winch work to the limits by shift the special adjusting tab, which is impossible for the normal torque limiter.

3. Intelligent handheld control. It can spy the battery condition and inspect electric connections by the indicator on it. Also, this control can adhere to the car body (or any iron or steel surface) because of carrying the magnetism.

You can find all the features of our winch are focusing on high durability, high reliability, more practical functions and etc. Attached pictures for your reference.

Kit looks pretty sweet.. so these will fit in a TJM bar on a GQ without any fussing around?

sitting here reading

all i can say is you get what you pay for . if you want a comp then buy one pay the money .
if you want one you may use on the weekend and cheap but works buy tigerz11 gear


dont compare a mini to a mack

flame suit now fitted

Well, thats the thing - I don't want something to hang off the face of a cliff with - I want something that'll pull me out of trouble on the rare occasion that I get stuck - being in a GQ theres not many cars (if any) that are as big as mine that are going to be there to pull me out of one of the harsher obsticals that'll actually get me stuck... I'm going to have to convince the missus to let me get one of these.

Tiger, that spec looks very interesting.

a) The control relay is not unknown, but it's not common yet and should work well.

b) Getting the brake out of the drum is the best thing you can do for a winch with synthetic line. I'm trying to understand the braking from the description, but it's a bit chinglish. The key point being it's not in the drum.

c) The torque limiter would reduce issues with line breakage or motor stalling. Less likely to burn out basically. I haven't seen this in any production winch (Warn or equivalent)

Looks very interesting mate.
Reliability / longevity / waterproofness would be other questions.

I reckon if you do a bunch of comparitive testing, and make the full tests and results public, provided your kit is up to the mark, you'll see plenty. Most 4wd crowds trust side by side testing, as opposed to claims. You test and match warn at 1/2 the price, you are onto something good.

I initally started this thread cause you have been round for a long time. I bought an Ironman instead of yours as I wanted the lighter 9500lb, otherwise it was one of yours in line. You weren't doing synthetic then.
http://autumn2006.4wheelingoz.com/autumn%202006.htm has some testing as does http://www.4x4winches.com/winch_mile.htm and http://www.winchtest.com/

Get a club to do the testing with you, the response from on here shows you how much interest there is.

Competition sales aren't that high, but they do set the "standard" that everyone wants.

How long till you bring in a hydraulic winch w/ plasma line and clutched belt operated pump?

Thanx
Paul

tigerz11 wrote:

tigerz11 wrote:i recieved an email from overseas last month asking was i interested in this new winch and design ,,,i am not mechanically minded so i thought i would put part of the email up and see what you blokes think ,,i have some photos but how do i put them up,,?? does this mean anything or is it just crap !!!! I have kept out the designers name and the patented models that is all
STARTS BELOW

Our designer, is the former general engineer of T-max, who designed nearly all the winches for T-max. All below features are patented!



Presently we mainly have two series available

The main difference between the two as following:

1. The Control Box. See the attached pictures please. A separate but integrated fork-lift style relay is used in the control box for Top-Value Series. You may have known this kind of relay is becoming more and more popular for electric winches, due to the high efficiency and better durability. But no separate and independent relay is used in the control box for Two-Speed Series. The whole control is just like an integrated relay but works like four relays inside to enhance the reliability. Sometimes, because of the problem of the relay (normal), the winch could not be stopped. But this situation will never happen to the control box for Two-Speed Series.
2.jpg[/img]

Correct me if i am wrong but does this say that those single relays that you sell on ebay can get stuck and you cant stop winch?????? It is worded like it happens quite regulary. I thought the idea of those solenoids is that they dont fail.

uzdnabuzd wrote:

tigerz11 wrote:

tigerz11 wrote:i recieved an email from overseas last month asking was i interested in this new winch and design ,,,i am not mechanically minded so i thought i would put part of the email up and see what you blokes think ,,i have some photos but how do i put them up,,?? does this mean anything or is it just crap !!!! I have kept out the designers name and the patented models that is all
STARTS BELOW

Our designer, is the former general engineer of T-max, who designed nearly all the winches for T-max. All below features are patented!



Presently we mainly have two series available

The main difference between the two as following:

1. The Control Box. See the attached pictures please. A separate but integrated fork-lift style relay is used in the control box for Top-Value Series. You may have known this kind of relay is becoming more and more popular for electric winches, due to the high efficiency and better durability. But no separate and independent relay is used in the control box for Two-Speed Series. The whole control is just like an integrated relay but works like four relays inside to enhance the reliability. Sometimes, because of the problem of the relay (normal), the winch could not be stopped. But this situation will never happen to the control box for Two-Speed Series.
2.jpg[/img]

Correct me if i am wrong but does this say that those single relays that you sell on ebay can get stuck and you cant stop winch?????? It is worded like it happens quite regulary. I thought the idea of those solenoids is that they dont fail.

I don't think so. THey are talking about a normal type relay.

me3@neuralfibre.com wrote:Tiger, that spec looks very interesting.

a) The control relay is not unknown, but it's not common yet and should work well.

b) Getting the brake out of the drum is the best thing you can do for a winch with synthetic line. I'm trying to understand the braking from the description, but it's a bit chinglish. The key point being it's not in the drum.

c) The torque limiter would reduce issues with line breakage or motor stalling. Less likely to burn out basically. I haven't seen this in any production winch (Warn or equivalent)

Looks very interesting mate.
Reliability / longevity / waterproofness would be other questions.

I reckon if you do a bunch of comparitive testing, and make the full tests and results public, provided your kit is up to the mark, you'll see plenty. Most 4wd crowds trust side by side testing, as opposed to claims. You test and match warn at 1/2 the price, you are onto something good.

I initally started this thread cause you have been round for a long time. I bought an Ironman instead of yours as I wanted the lighter 9500lb, otherwise it was one of yours in line. You weren't doing synthetic then.
http://autumn2006.4wheelingoz.com/autumn%202006.htm has some testing as does http://www.4x4winches.com/winch_mile.htm and http://www.winchtest.com/

Get a club to do the testing with you, the response from on here shows you how much interest there is.

Competition sales aren't that high, but they do set the "standard" that everyone wants.

How long till you bring in a hydraulic winch w/ plasma line and clutched belt operated pump?

Thanx
Paul

Hi Paul

I have no idea on tech stuff with nearly everything ,,,i got into the winches because of the rip off prices we were expected to pay,,,even after companies went overseas they never passed on savings and still stick it up us ,,okay there gear is superior but to the extent of the price ,definetly not,,so i tried to get stuff here at competive price and the best quality i could ,,i go to china each year but i am so retarted i dont even know what to look for ,,i mostly get guided from the winch factory i deal with.I dont do this fall time its only a hobby,,,i have no idea when you blokes talk about solenoids relays the gearing all that ,,i am only guided from the winch manufacturer ,when i bring gear over,,i have a extremely good relationship with them,,im not sure of hydraulic winches yet ,,but they are getting 12mm rope x 40 and 50 metres ,,,,if anyone wanted some time to get over and have a look at some of these factories organise a group for the fairs,,,its a real eye opener and not expensive.
you dont have to be a bigshot to start something

regards tigerz11

me3@neuralfibre.com wrote:b) Getting the brake out of the drum is the best thing you can do for a winch with synthetic line. I'm trying to understand the braking from the description, but it's a bit chinglish. The key point being it's not in the drum.

From what i gathered, it an electromagnetic braking system. Can be very powerful, less moving parts, less heat etc etc.

If this IS the case - it'll be a winner. You know the mobility scooters all of the old people (and some physically) and some obese people use - these machines use electromagnetic braking sytems (with an extra mechanical drum back-up). These braking systems are strong enough to pull up a 150kg person, sitting on a 100kg heavy duty scooter quicker than you can say "cheeseburger". I sold these for 5 years in my last job - they're phenominal.

Coxy

PS.- It sounds to me like tigerz11 was just offering a free trip for OL members to go visit his manufacturers factory.....

coxy321 wrote:

me3@neuralfibre.com wrote:b) Getting the brake out of the drum is the best thing you can do for a winch with synthetic line. I'm trying to understand the braking from the description, but it's a bit chinglish. The key point being it's not in the drum.

From what i gathered, it an electromagnetic braking system. Can be very powerful, less moving parts, less heat etc etc.

If this IS the case - it'll be a winner. You know the mobility scooters all of the old people (and some physically) and some obese people use - these machines use electromagnetic braking sytems (with an extra mechanical drum back-up). These braking systems are strong enough to pull up a 150kg person, sitting on a 100kg heavy duty scooter quicker than you can say "cheeseburger". I sold these for 5 years in my last job - they're phenominal.

Coxy

PS.- It sounds to me like tigerz11 was just offering a free trip for OL members to go visit his manufacturers factory.....

COXY
We can,,, and also ARBS and ironmans, factory,,,why cant we get these scooters in,,why cant we get someone to makes a winch to our specs ,,,why cant it be done ??? I can see lot of you blokes are extremely knowledgable put a few heads together,,,,,there are only 3 types of people in the world and only 3,,,they are
1 ,,,the bloke that makes it happen
2 ,,the bloke that watches it happen
3 ,,the bloke that says what the f#$k happen

Still waiting to hear how Hamo's winch shat itself?

Fairdinkum Hamo!

Anyway, what it is the biggest failure of winches?
The motor.
Nothing said about the motor.
What is the quality of the motor?
What is the current draw as this can relate to heat?
Bearing type?

Al.

I'll have a very rough stab and say the cause of Hamo's motor failure would have been a combination of the slip-ring/brushes/brush chassis having a major melt down.

It all comes down to component quality, and component matching. There might have also been an issue of previous user error (ie. dragging the ar$e out of the winch).

Coxy

I think that as everyone in the know is keeping quiet about the failure of the winch, we can all just assume its another useless piece of shit that isn't fit for its purpose.

Unless anyone can enlighten us otherwise?

Cossie wrote:I think that as everyone in the know is keeping quiet about the failure of the winch, we can all just assume its another useless piece of shit that isn't fit for its purpose.

Unless anyone can enlighten us otherwise?

Cossie
your firm but fair ,,i would also like to know what exactly what happened,,how long did it last what test were they doing ,ect ect,,,
regards
tigerz11

Cossie wrote:I think that as everyone in the know is keeping quiet about the failure of the winch, we can all just assume its another useless piece of shit that isn't fit for its purpose.

Unless anyone can enlighten us otherwise?

Um ... I've also seen plenty of Warn motors burn out too. Does that mean Warn is supplying a product not up to the task is was designed for?

tigerz11 wrote:Cossie
your firm but fair ,,i would also like to know what exactly what happened,,how long did it last what test were they doing ,ect ect,,,
regards
tigerz11

I wouldn't mind knowing either. Surely there was someone at the test that can elaborate....

Coxy

RoldIT wrote:

Cossie wrote:I think that as everyone in the know is keeping quiet about the failure of the winch, we can all just assume its another useless piece of shit that isn't fit for its purpose.

Unless anyone can enlighten us otherwise?

Um ... I've also seen plenty of Warn motors burn out too. Does that mean Warn is supplying a product not up to the task is was designed for?

No. What I want to establish is what was the winch doing when it died? Was it just enough to simulate a gentle recovery from a boghole, or did he have the car chained to a tree whilst trying to pull a 100yr old gum tree out the ground with the winch?

I have very serious doubts about the alleged ratings of these Chinese winches. I'd really like to see a test done comparing a Warn 12000 to a Chinese one and see what they do actually pull.

coxy321 wrote:

me3@neuralfibre.com wrote:b) Getting the brake out of the drum is the best thing you can do for a winch with synthetic line. I'm trying to understand the braking from the description, but it's a bit chinglish. The key point being it's not in the drum.

From what i gathered, it an electromagnetic braking system. Can be very powerful, less moving parts, less heat etc etc.

If this IS the case - it'll be a winner. You know the mobility scooters all of the old people (and some physically) and some obese people use - these machines use electromagnetic braking sytems (with an extra mechanical drum back-up). These braking systems are strong enough to pull up a 150kg person, sitting on a 100kg heavy duty scooter quicker than you can say "cheeseburger". I sold these for 5 years in my last job - they're phenominal.

Coxy

PS.- It sounds to me like tigerz11 was just offering a free trip for OL members to go visit his manufacturers factory.....

pretty sure big lathes use the same sort of thing. 50kg of steel spinning at 160RPM sure stops fast on the ones at work.

Well, no news is bad news for teh tiger winch.

My minds made up, and the tiger winch doesn't look so appealing anymore :(

Cossie wrote:Well, no news is bad news for teh tiger winch.

My minds made up, and the tiger winch doesn't look so appealing anymore :(

Its probly going to be a bit hard to get a real answer about the dead motor, as i doubt "hamo" will ever return here, and i'm also guessing that he wont be sending a faulty product request to tigerz11 either.

I would concider one of tigerz11 myself, but already have a high mount.

Hey taff, one of the more recend land speed record machines uses magnetic braking instead of friction braking. The vehicles wheels are full billet steel (no tyres from memory), and they use these top secret magnets to oull it up. In this doco, they mounted a magnet the size of a 30lb weightlifting weight into an industrial lathe (had around a 20' bed), and the magnet actually stalled the friggin lathe it was that strong.

Coxy