Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Posted: **Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:46 pm**

4WD Stuff wrote:
grimbo wrote:
4WD Stuff wrote:I got the impression that they were ARB stores that woudn't be named to protect the forum.

Shane
yeah we get that part but there is a big difference between some one who sells their products along with other manufacturers and an actual company franchise store as there is only one of their stores in WA
Well it wouldn't be an ARB store then and this would have been mentioned.

except it hasn't been. I'm not saying it isn't but so far a lot of conclusions have been made without a bit of info that is relevant. Who exactly has he been dealing with and whoexactly has been stone walling?

Posted: **Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:46 pm**

was it not said that it went as far as head office? if thats the case then one would have to assume its more than just a little guy who sells gear...

Posted: **Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:58 pm**

macca81 wrote:was it not said that it went as far as head office? if thats the case then one would have to assume its more than just a little guy who sells gear...

I believe the O.P. only mentions speaking to a 'rep'. I suppose the question is whether this person is a representative of the manufacturer or of an independent retailer.

No mention of head office that i could see - except from other members anecdotes

Posted: **Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:00 pm**

yep no mention of speaking to head ofice only a sales rep of unknown origin.

Posted: **Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:04 pm**

sorry, was "trains" and his saga that was mention in this thread and is in greater detail in another thread here that directly mentioned it.

Posted: **Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:35 pm**

grimbo,
its called the great bash it up arb bandwagon.
its really easy to join.
just tell a one sided story,leaving out vital details,so other internet warriors can also tell of a similar one sided tale that happened to a mate of a brother's mate.then,based on that tell everybody that every product that company sells is garbage,all stockists are crooks and there is a big conspiricy surrounding warranty claims.

of course for this to work you would have to forget about all those tens of thousands of happy customers.

maybe i could start a thread for everyone to tell of there great experiences with arb.but this forum seems to be full of mis-informed cry babies,who only believe and remember the bad stuff.

Posted: **Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:43 pm**

arb383 wrote:grimbo,
its called the great bash it up arb bandwagon.
its really easy to join.
just tell a one sided story,leaving out vital details,so other internet warriors can also tell of a similar one sided tale that happened to a mate of a brother's mate.then,based on that tell everybody that every product that company sells is garbage,all stockists are crooks and there is a big conspiricy surrounding warranty claims.

of course for this to work you would have to forget about all those tens of thousands of happy customers.

maybe i could start a thread for everyone to tell of there great experiences with arb.but this forum seems to be full of mis-informed cry babies,who only believe and remember the bad stuff.

You have done no favours to ARB in the manner you have stuck up for them. If you were sticking up for my business in the arrogance that you have stuck up for ARB you would be shown the door. You have shown disrespect to ARB customers and generalised their problems and included them amongst liars.

ARB will have a better reputation when you stop posting in this thread. In fact you should consider editing some of your remarks so you don't offend others that read this thread.

Everyone understands that no product is perfect and nor do they expect it to be. However, if someone purchases a product and fits it themselves they should be told up front there is no warranty.

Shane.

Posted: **Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:50 pm**

grimbo wrote:
dogbreath_48 wrote:
dogbreath_48 wrote:Are you dealing with an *** owned dealership/franchise or just a shop that stocks *** gear?
I'm not sure if this has been answered and i've missed it ??

Curious is all...
so what is the answer to this? dealing with some bloke in some little town who sells the stuff is very different to actually dealing with theparticlar company. The little bloke could be just blowing you off and blaming the company asitis easier for him than having to go through paper work etc. Have you actually spoken with ARB themselves or not?

Also this is goes to show the bullshit power internet forums have. you hear a coupleof one sided stories about a company or a product or whatever and suddenly they are the devil incarnate selling crap. yet you never hear of the many thousands of happy customers who have no dramas and continueto buy the products happily. This is ageneral observation as I notice alotofthreads start outas Worlds crappiest whatever and once a few people start questioning and asking for all the facts the stories change very quickly. Without all the info and both sides of the story it is just hearsay and in the end it isal about getting a pat on the back and a "Hell yeah, f*ck them and their money hungry big business blah blah blah"

grimbo,

I was going to leave it as open as possible to save pointing the finger at the store in particual and as you have mentioned there is only the one store in Osbourne Park and that is the store.

I have brought many products thru this store often, and my current issue is not to take work away from this store but to outline the warranty issue I'm currently having. Once again please reread the original post, the salesman said it should be covered, BUT head office at old BLAH BLAH have said no.

What two sides would you like to hear??

Posted: **Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:54 pm**

sorry in your initial post you never said head office nor that it was one of their company stores just that you bought a product and it was faulty and a sales rep said it wasn't covered. Thanks for clearing it up.

Also why did you mix and match them with different springs on the front? Suspension kits off the shelf are usually designed to work as a complete package so to expect them to work and mainain the same setting as a competitors is a bit unrealistic. That may explain breakage to some degree but maybe not, (can anyone shed light on how mix matched spring rates would effect a component if at all) but it does explain why there is a difference

Also have you read the Terms and Conditions on the back of the sales thingy you get when you buy the springs? Does it mention the warranty opt out? They don't have to tell you of clauses if they have provided you with a printed version which spells it out. Don't know if it has this info or not just wondering if it does.

Posted: **Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:59 pm**

grimbo wrote:yep no mention of speaking to head ofice only a sales rep of unknown origin.

You're right here to Grimbo....

.... and as the story goes, I have asked to speak to both head office and the spring manufacture and was told by the store in question that they dont give these numbers out and to deal with the salesman direct.

any other or though as to help my situation?

ARB383, this started as a warning to others as to the service we had recieved on a product that had failed and hopefully serve as a warning to other of the unprofessional service we had recieved, this has come from up the line.... It is my choice to no longer give my hard erned money to the store in question and to seek services elsewhere. For someone who has no afilation (sp?) with ARB you have said somethings that have far from been professional or benfited ARB.

Posted: **Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:13 pm**

any thoughts on mixing and matching springs??? please chime in..

We replaced the rears only as they had been cold reset some time back, and as a result lost there temper a lot quicker. Now these packs were origianally heavy packs and gave little flex and I (the cruiser was mine orignally) had to carry concrete blocks in the back to make it ride better. I fitted the spring for lift when I was younger

. We despeced the rear springs by removing I think it was the third leaf from the bottom(tough dog packs)

The front spring packs have been on for 6/7 years and are still going strong. The shocks are KONI long travel 60 series shocks, these were removed and inspected prior to installing the new packs. The shocks are fine and I can recommend them to anyone looking to by good shocks.

Daniels

Posted: **Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:53 pm**

DanielS wrote:any thoughts on mixing and matching springs??? please chime in..

Daniels

In my middy I run ironman leaves, with 5 leafs and 2'' shackles, upfront I use really old OME 60 series rear main and wrap leaves and 5th leaf and 5 leaves from the original ironman front pack

seems to work alright, though the front is VERY soft I need new leaves.

I was thinking of getting a brand new set off ARB cause can get them at a decent price but this thread has me worried

Posted: **Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:29 pm**

The whole attitude of the store in mention is a disgrace. None of the salespeople have a clue and i swore id never go back a year ago, but got a gift voucher for my 21st and bought some bits and pieces. i have had 2 unsucsessful warrranty claims with em, one for a battery tray that fell apart and one for a compressor. Both of them saw "undue and unreasonable conditions" but were fitted by them. The comprssor was classic, "its showing signs of corrosion, and is therefore not covered by warranty". it was youse who put it under the bonnet!!!

I cannot comment on their suspension as i have only ever had old clapped out gear that was already on my ute when i got it, but i can vouch for their terrible customer relations.......

Cheers
Dave

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:12 am**

arb383 wrote:
guts,arb cannot control how they are fitted.i have seen so many different ways and interpretations of how to fit suspension.i usually see,springs fitted upside down,back to front,left fitted to the right,shocks not bled,wrong type or insufficient grease on bushes,u-bolts not done up evenly,nuts/bolts put on wrong threads,not measuring spring free height or camber,not measuring the car.shackles the wrong way and so many other things i can't be bothered to type.
any of these things COULD cause problems.
and i see it every day.

An A4 piece of paper with detailed installation instructions and pics/drawings included with would be an awesome idea.

Hoppy

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:38 am**

bulldogy wrote:Actually i read an article a long time ago that the cheap springs they got made were from india. They must use the metal from all the bikes from roadkill for springs

Actually when ARB announced the soon to be released range of Dakar springs a few years back they said they would be made in their factory in Thailand and their Old Man Emu range would still be made here in Oz. The Dakar range according to ARB was introduced to cater for the budget concious market, hence why they were being made overseas, in the same country that makes Hiluxes, Rodeo's and goodness knows what other top selling 4wd vehicles.
Its most likely that the spring in question had a manufacturing or material defect (I'm guessing material) which caused it to crack but with mass production there is always the liklihood of the odd dud slipping through to the consumer, it's no different with any mass produced product no matter what the brand name or level of quality control.
I know many people who have or have had ARB suspension and never had a problem but we only hear about the odd duds dont we.
I've only had one arb product, a winch bar and it was top notch as are many of their products.
I suppose you think by now that I am somehow affiliated with arb, I'm not in any way. Just trying to set the record straight and even all the other brands products mentioned in this thread have had their share of failures too.
Not admitting to a faulty product and shrugging off warranty claims is a different bag of fish. I'm currently having a problem with a top name battery which has split the seam under the battery clamp and without a company rep even seeing it yet they are suggesting already that I overtightened the clamp. I said to them well, the clamp does have to hold the battery from moving right? der! A 4wd battery should be able to withstand normal clamp pressure yes? I'm seeing the writing on the wall that they will avoid the warranty at all costs.
Anyway good luck with your claim DanielS.

Posted: **Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:37 am**

arb383 wrote:grimbo,
its called the great bash it up arb bandwagon.
its really easy to join.
just tell a one sided story,leaving out vital details,so other internet warriors can also tell of a similar one sided tale that happened to a mate of a brother's mate.then,based on that tell everybody that every product that company sells is garbage,all stockists are crooks and there is a big conspiricy surrounding warranty claims.

of course for this to work you would have to forget about all those tens of thousands of happy customers.

maybe i could start a thread for everyone to tell of there great experiences with arb.but this forum seems to be full of mis-informed cry babies,who only believe and remember the bad stuff.

Bold words for someone who was not there when these problems arose, and were provided a$b service which has been shared here.

So we share the problems and poor service we have experienced, and we are cry babies??

I believe that I mentioned that I had fitted arb products for many years prior to fitting my springs, and had no such trouble.
I approached them with the attitude of trying to help them improve their product, and I am aware that there will be a failure of a part here and there.
What I experienced showed that there is a problem not only with some of their product that I had ordered, but also their inability to deal with it effectively from the front sales guy, to the state manager.
Others have also shared their experiences, and now you are dismissing them??

Must be an a$b thing.

Trains

Posted: **Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:47 am**

arb383 wrote:grimbo,
its called the great bash it up arb bandwagon.
its really easy to join.
just tell a one sided story,leaving out vital details,so other internet warriors can also tell of a similar one sided tale that happened to a mate of a brother's mate.then,based on that tell everybody that every product that company sells is garbage,all stockists are crooks and there is a big conspiricy surrounding warranty claims.

of course for this to work you would have to forget about all those tens of thousands of happy customers.

maybe i could start a thread for everyone to tell of there great experiences with arb.but this forum seems to be full of mis-informed cry babies,who only believe and remember the bad stuff.

The good stuff does not leave people 1000's out dollars out of pocket

The good stuff lets you enjoy what your doing and lets your mind stick on whats going on around you ..
But I guess you would not have any issue with your recent purchase of new top brand medium duty, store recommended for your application "lifted springs" and dampers in less than 12 months leave you with less clearance to the bump stop that the factory springs you removed.

What error in installation\use can you give me for four springs sagging (at various rates) and one shock loosing oil ?

I love the contradiction in your post .. you sook about people "bashing" what are actually some poor examples of what is generally a good product ( that seeing as it is according to you rare, yet in one thread on small aussie BBS has found several first hand examples of poor product and customer service) then in the next paragraph label the entire board as

this forum seems to be full of mis-informed cry babies,who only believe and remember the bad stuff

I bet I can find as many threads saying great things about people and products as I can bad ones.

Posted: **Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:45 pm**

Hi gang,

I wanted to let you know of the out come of this little story.

Not long after my last post on this site, my brother had a call from the ARB rep for WA. He explained that they were happy to replace the spring and that it had been done. He also added that the case had been not handeled correct and apoligised.

I'm happy with this out come and after talking to the Area Rep 2day he said that the springs showed no signs of abuse and was very professional with the way he conducted himself.

I would like to thank everyone who helped with informnation on this forum.

Daniels

PS, sorry for the late reply... I have just started traveling with work again.

Posted: **Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:55 pm**

Posted: **Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:24 pm**

SWEET. It was the fear of Outers I tell you.

Posted: **Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:14 am**

Glad to hear of your successfull outcome.
maybe the WA rep could come over to SA.
They need some help in this area.

Trains

Posted: **Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:36 am**

I might be wrong on this point but it may be a matter of persistance pays sometimes, maybe they knew he wasn't going away, they tried shirting all responsibility and hoped he would go away.

If I know a product was faulty I don't have to ask the manufacturer about it, I just replace the product and sort out my warranty dramas in my own time. ARB might have some rule about this so I am not going to point the finger at the WA rep.

Posted: **Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:50 am**

arb383 wrote:
arb383 wrote:there are not to many manufacturers in the world,let alone australia that would give an unconditional warranty on a product that they do not fit and is abused.
why would the 4x4 industry be any different?

just my opinion.

you guys are totally missing the the point.
read my post again.
i am not refering to just the people in this topic or one particular company or product.
i am talking about anything that you can purchase for a car,including the car itself.
if you buy a product and fit it to the car yourself and there is a problem,you blame the product.
you then take the product back and try to convince the seller that:
1.you fitted it correctly.
2.it was the right product for the application.
3.it was not abused or used incorrectly.

it is impossible for the salesman to know wether or not those 3 things have happened.he can only take you on face value.and will base his decision on the whole scenario.

if you bought a crankshaft from a big name distributor,fitted it to your engine and it broke,and you went back to the store for warranty they would laugh you out of the shop.
factors totally out of the control of the manufacturer could have caused the problem so no warranty appies.SO WHY WOULD THE 4X4 INDUSTRY BE ANY DIFFERENT?

to say that arb do not honour warranties on any of there parts is laughable.
all products can and do fail in any industry.and if your policy as a company was to have a totally unconditional warranty you would be out of business real fast.and broke.

why do you guys think that government departments,mining,telstra,fire service,abulance,police and countless others depend on arb products?

you guys cannot comprehend how much suspension gets fitted by arb and perfoms faultlessly for many years,compared to such a small number of warranty problems.the thing is you only ever here the bad stuff.

it is sad that instead of admitting fault,customers will lie to try to get something for free.and then if that fails,spread bad press about them to try to make others not buy from that company.
no company needs that kind of customer,so boycott away if it makes you feel better.

remember,poor customer attitude=poor customer service.not the other way around.
if you walk into any store with a chip on your shoulder or a poor attitude,more than likely you will walk out unhappy.

mate,

you dont know what the hell you are going on about. you and any company you represent or work for is a scam.

Its a leaf spring for a 4wd, not a friggen holden barina.

JEs

Posted: **Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:03 am**

DanielS wrote:Hi gang,

I wanted to let you know of the out come of this little story.

Not long after my last post on this site, my brother had a call from the ARB rep for WA. He explained that they were happy to replace the spring and that it had been done. He also added that the case had been not handeled correct and apoligised.

I'm happy with this out come and after talking to the Area Rep 2day he said that the springs showed no signs of abuse and was very professional with the way he conducted himself.

I would like to thank everyone who helped with informnation on this forum.

Daniels

PS, sorry for the late reply... I have just started traveling with work again.

aaah the power of the internet forum!

Jes

Posted: **Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:14 pm**

trains wrote:Glad to hear of your successfull outcome.
maybe the WA rep could come over to SA.
They need some help in this area.

Trains

Strange enough, Ive got an issue with my front leaves sagging out after i chucked a dual battery system and winch under the front of the lux, and the same ARB you went too is being really helpful- we're going to try a new, thicker lift spring in it now and see if thats the problem

Posted: **Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:05 pm**

ferrit wrote:
trains wrote:Glad to hear of your successfull outcome.
maybe the WA rep could come over to SA.
They need some help in this area.

Trains
Strange enough, Ive got an issue with my front leaves sagging out after i chucked a dual battery system and winch under the front of the lux, and the same ARB you went too is being really helpful- we're going to try a new, thicker lift spring in it now and see if thats the problem

maybe they are learning...

Posted: **Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:00 pm**

maybe its got something to do with me spending $5K+ at that particular store

Posted: **Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:04 pm**

ome leaf springs are all made overseas in indonesia( if not indonesia one of those countrys) a main reason they went overseas is that the company that was making them here in australia where getting far to expensive and would not tool up to meet the growing demands of the product. The new factory overseas tooled up with all new equiptment and are able to produce the quality and quantity that were needed. there quality control program is very good but like anything made there will always be a couple of duds( a very minor % given the amount produced) The ome coils are made here in australia under ome's design by kings springs. The ome shocks are made by munroe again by using ome's design. No ome products are "off the shelf" items. The OME suspension dudes get on the computers and do stacks of calculations and and computer simulations. Then send there designs off to the suspension builders. they send back prototypes and are fitted to the vehicle then tested. There are 4 testers that have been in the suspension game for ages. If there not happy with the ride, its back to the drawing board. It takes about a month per vehicle to complete the suspension system. Ome shocks are not just painted munroe shocks. you cannot purchase munroe's 4x4 shocks with the ome valving

just a bit of information for you all as i have seen that people have been asking where the leafs are made.

I dont work for ARB but i am an ome fitter.

Posted: **Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:28 am**

ferrit wrote:maybe its got something to do with me spending $5K+ at that particular store

It shouldnt matter what you have spent there Ferrit.
But unfortunately, unless you have shelved out 000's on a new vehicle's bits and pieces, they dont seem to see you as important.

A warranty, and customer service should have nothing to do with how much money you spent with them.
Big or small, customer service should be there.

It seems a bit strange that springs that are made for bullbar, winch, batts etc would need an extra leaf to cope with the weight.

Hope that it still drives ok mate, something just dosent sound right about that as a fix for this problem.

Trains

Posted: **Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:01 pm**

it still drives fine, but the bloody axle has touched the sump once because the friggen springs are too low! (need to extend the stops too)

waiting for OME to get their arse into gear and send up the two leaves from melbourne atm.

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WARNING *** leaf spring failer!!!!!