Outer Limits 4x4 Board

So in a sense it is a bit like ARB making a video showing that their roofracks can hold 1500kg, while inferior roofracks can only hold 1000kg. Possibly true, but meaningless since you'd never actually put 1000kg on your roofrack anyway?

chimpboy wrote:So in a sense it is a bit like ARB making a video showing that their roofracks can hold 1500kg, while inferior roofracks can only hold 1000kg. Possibly true, but meaningless since you'd never actually put 1000kg on your roofrack anyway?

What's the motto of the 4WD community?

• MORE STEEL.
  You don't talk about fight club
  STRONG IS GOOD AND STRONG IS HEAVY, AND IT HAS TO BE STRONG TO MOVE ALL THE HEAVY
  You don't talk about fight club
  (no poofters) - sorry - that's Hash Club (HHH)

Paul

me3@neuralfibre.com wrote:

chimpboy wrote:So in a sense it is a bit like ARB making a video showing that their roofracks can hold 1500kg, while inferior roofracks can only hold 1000kg. Possibly true, but meaningless since you'd never actually put 1000kg on your roofrack anyway?

What's the motto of the 4WD community?

• MORE STEEL.
  You don't talk about fight club
  STRONG IS GOOD AND STRONG IS HEAVY, AND IT HAS TO BE STRONG TO MOVE ALL THE HEAVY
  You don't talk about fight club
  (no poofters) - sorry - that's Hash Club (HHH)

Paul

How are the pop rivets holding out?

Skegbudley wrote: How are the pop rivets holding out?

Good thanks. Why, you need recovering?

ISUZUROVER wrote:Many rock crawling scenarios see a wheel wedged in a v-shaped crevice. very high torque loads are possible...

Yeah, I can't imagine many competition guys going for the chinese model. But for the rest of us mere mortals.........

Thank you ARB for showing that the chinese lockers will easily take the loads that people like me would require of them.

KiwiBacon wrote: Thank you ARB for showing that the chinese lockers will easily take the loads that people like me would require of them.

the test only shows that they'll takea gradually applied load once, brand new. The test shows nothing about other types of failures, or mean time between failures, or performance under shock loads; there are a lot of variables. If your buying criteria include reliability, there needs to be a lot more research into the chinese item before you can safely say it will last as long and perform as well as the ARB.

KiwiBacon wrote:

Dozoor wrote: Actual torque getting to a single wheel can be easily twice that depending on your setups .

For instance even a 1.3 suzuki with series 3 gearing ,
Around 70 ft lb x 3.652 first x 6.1 low range x 3.9 final = 6423 ft lb

jump up to say my Grand chero ,

4.7 v8 300ftlb x 3.1 first x1.5 auto converter X 2.72 low range x around 3.9 final = 14,796 ft lb.

BANG !!!

Nope, your wheel will need to be welded to the earth to take that much torque.
In reality torque to the wheels is limited by traction.

Even the extreme case of a 35" wheel with 2 ton of weight on it on dry tarmac (friction 0.8) gives a max of about 7000Nm. This is a severely exaggerated load (noone has 2 ton on a single wheel).

7000Nm is 5160 Ft-lbs.

More likely scenario.
33" wheel, 1000kg downforce, traction 0.7
Axle torque is limited to 4350Nm (3210 Ft-lbs).

So yes those chinese lockers are more than sufficient.

The test is measuring the load at about a 5" fulcrum, so you would be dividing the result by somthing like 3 to give you the figures for the leverage of a 33" tire.

So "your" most likely scenario would quiet easily achieve the traction figures needed to do either the axle or the locker. around 2300 ft lb

But as you stated its probly fine for a touring rig that dosn.t get loaded up
runs smallish tires and dosnt see steep rocky climbs.

dumbdunce wrote:
the test only shows that they'll takea gradually applied load once, brand new. The test shows nothing about other types of failures, or mean time between failures, or performance under shock loads; there are a lot of variables. If your buying criteria include reliability, there needs to be a lot more research into the chinese item before you can safely say it will last as long and perform as well as the ARB.

X 2

I guess they'd be ok if you didn't plan on keeping your vehicle long term, i mean if you need spare parts in 5 or 10 years down the track it might be a bit difficult. For me, it's important to go with a brand that i know i can get spare parts for 10 years down the track as i plan to keep my vehicle forever. I can get spare parts from just about anywhere in oz pretty quickly.

i would't be touring in aus with someone who runs a china locker! imagine it failed on the canning or something! nice $300 saving that just ruined your trip.


seriously.... i cant understand why people are so desperate to save a few hundred bucks on a product that is obviously inferior when they prob spend the difference over a few months on crap like smokes, clubs/pubs, buying smoko, tatoo's, whatever.

Dozoor wrote:The test is measuring the load at about a 5" fulcrum, so you would be dividing the result by somthing like 3 to give you the figures for the leverage of a 33" tire.

Umm what?
Do you understand what torque is and what a ft-lb is?

This is a pic that China4x4Offroad sent; looks a lot better than what was in the video.

Dont know if anyone else bothered, but i've dug up the old chinese locker thread:
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/ftopic151 ... inese+ebay

I've sent a PM to the guy that bought one so he can possibly give everyone some feedback (he bought it Oct/Nov last year).

KiwiBacon wrote:

Dozoor wrote:The test is measuring the load at about a 5" fulcrum, so you would be dividing the result by somthing like 3 to give you the figures for the leverage of a 33" tire.

Umm what?
Do you understand what torque is and what a ft-lb is?

Do you understand leverage ?

I love it how the ARB owners get all defensive!

Going by that vid, if you reach the forces required to blow the china locker, you will blow the axles anyway if you had the arb. So 1 way or another your fcuked.

Also, the above pic does look like a much better product than the one in the vid. It could be a newer and improved model which will outlast the axles?

Anyway, give it 6-12 months and strength and quality will be on par, or close enough i reckon, and the chinese will make a vid of their own?

mule75 wrote:i would't be touring in aus with someone who runs a china locker! imagine it failed on the canning or something! nice $300 saving that just ruined your trip.


seriously.... i cant understand why people are so desperate to save a few hundred bucks on a product that is obviously inferior when they prob spend the difference over a few months on crap like smokes, clubs/pubs, buying smoko, tatoo's, whatever.

that statement is a bit to general, even so. why is it so wrong that people want to spend money on other things?

me3@neuralfibre.com wrote:

• MORE STEEL.
  You don't talk about fight club
  STRONG IS GOOD AND STRONG IS HEAVY, AND IT HAS TO BE STRONG TO MOVE ALL THE HEAVY
  You don't talk about fight club
  (no poofters) - sorry - that's Hash Club (HHH)

Paul

ahhhh....ok....

been smokin some funny fibre?

Dozoor wrote:

KiwiBacon wrote:

Dozoor wrote:The test is measuring the load at about a 5" fulcrum, so you would be dividing the result by somthing like 3 to give you the figures for the leverage of a 33" tire.

Umm what?
Do you understand what torque is and what a ft-lb is?

Do you understand leverage ?

why don't you answer Kiwi's question first?

brad-chevlux wrote:

mule75 wrote:i would't be touring in aus with someone who runs a china locker! imagine it failed on the canning or something! nice $300 saving that just ruined your trip.


seriously.... i cant understand why people are so desperate to save a few hundred bucks on a product that is obviously inferior when they prob spend the difference over a few months on crap like smokes, clubs/pubs, buying smoko, tatoo's, whatever.

that statement is a bit to general, even so. why is it so wrong that people want to spend money on other things?

i could't care what people spend thier money on... i'm just saying why not spend the extra (which is not really that much when you're talking mods to trucks) and get the real deal which is proven and not an unknown.
everything chinese i've dealt with normally does the job almost or just as good but doesn't last. then i end up buying the proper product anyway so now i wont go near any chinese cheap copies if i have an option of buying better quality products.

i think we've been here before on the winch subject which you and i both know our views are very different.

if i'm going to part with hard earned i'd rather buy once and have reliability. this goes from cars and tools to anything i buy.



plus i'd rather keep my money circulating in my country.

me3@neuralfibre.com wrote: With the crashign down to earth, that would increase both the weight and possibly the traction available at the wheel, BUT, it's momentary. The spring in the driveline may adsorb a lot of it, reducing peak torque significantly.

I have lost count of the number of times I have seen a front end crash back down spinning to be accompanied by a big bang... usually diffs or cvs...

Easy to overcome the ability of the axle to elastically deform (twist) if you have too much right boot.



BUT - back to the original topic... I would never buy one for a tourer I was taking to a remote area - I would buy a 2nd hand ARB first. I might buy one for a weekend offroader, but only if I could buy 2 for the cost of one ARB.

coxy321 wrote:Dont know if anyone else bothered, but i've dug up the old chinese locker thread:
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/ftopic151 ... inese+ebay

I've sent a PM to the guy that bought one so he can possibly give everyone some feedback (he bought it Oct/Nov last year).

Yeah I have one fitted to my Patrol running 37inch X-terrains
I had an auto lokka in the front until about a month ago I broke that, so I have fitted the chinese locker & done one trip so far so good no dramas.
the compressor that they supplied was abit average so I used my ARB one already fitted

going out this weekend so will try and report on the second test of abuse

This is kinda like my issue with Uniden at the moment.

I recently bought my old man an Icom 41s handheld to use as a scanner, because he lost the antenna on his 4 year old Uniden scanner. I have been hunting around for a replacement antenna but it's a proprietary connector so nothing else works. I have emailed Uniden and they told me that they can't help me, it's a discontinued product. Apparently it's the only product they made that has that proprietary connector. Sure, icom have a proprietary connector on their 41s but they also sell adaptors and that proprietary connector was used on the old 40s and about 3-4 other current & 10 year old commercial radios. Anyway i ended up getting the soldering iron out and a few connectors and made my own nice little bnc plug for it, so now i can sell it. Uniden... ewwww


So... the moral of my lame story is that if uniden isn't providing spare parts 2 years after discontinuing a product, what hope does a chinese locker have if you need replacement parts down the track?

BTW, check out my home made BNC adaptor. I don't know if i could fix a chinese locker with a soldering iron... but i'd give it a go




I'm not saying the chinese stuff is crap, but it's something you'd need to consider before purchasing

ARB doesn't supply parts for some of the old lockers.

I've seen them shear in half, score seals and fail in many ways.

Yeah - ARB is perfect....

me3@neuralfibre.com wrote:ARB doesn't supply parts for some of the old lockers.

I've seen them shear in half, score seals and fail in many ways.

Yeah - ARB is perfect....

how old are the old lockers you're talking about?

lol, this thread got funny.

Worth supporting an aussie product in these times of economic uncertainty?

mule75 wrote:i would't be touring in aus with someone who runs a china locker! imagine it failed on the canning or something! nice $300 saving that just ruined your trip.


seriously.... i cant understand why people are so desperate to save a few hundred bucks on a product that is obviously inferior when they prob spend the difference over a few months on crap like smokes, clubs/pubs, buying smoko, tatoo's, whatever.

Thats makes about as much sense as me saying I won't tour with any other 4WDs other than Patrols cause all the others break to easily. All the toyotas will break their axels & diffs. All the landys will have an electrical failure and all the jeeps will catch fire.

For someone that will probally only use the locker a couple of times a year they should be ok. Anybody that has a heavy right boot or is into comps should get a TJM one or an ARB locker.

Jeeps wrote:This is kinda like my issue with Uniden at the moment.

I recently bought my old man an Icom 41s handheld to use as a scanner, because he lost the antenna on his 4 year old Uniden scanner. I have been hunting around for a replacement antenna but it's a proprietary connector so nothing else works. I have emailed Uniden and they told me that they can't help me, it's a discontinued product. Apparently it's the only product they made that has that proprietary connector. Sure, icom have a proprietary connector on their 41s but they also sell adaptors and that proprietary connector was used on the old 40s and about 3-4 other current & 10 year old commercial radios. Anyway i ended up getting the soldering iron out and a few connectors and made my own nice little bnc plug for it, so now i can sell it. Uniden... ewwww


So... the moral of my lame story is that if uniden isn't providing spare parts 2 years after discontinuing a product, what hope does a chinese locker have if you need replacement parts down the track?

BTW, check out my home made BNC adaptor. I don't know if i could fix a chinese locker with a soldering iron... but i'd give it a go




I'm not saying the chinese stuff is crap, but it's something you'd need to consider before purchasing

being in the industry it is law for them to carry or at least be able to procure spare parts for a period of 7 years form the last invoice of goods going out.

bigcam wrote:

Jeeps wrote:This is kinda like my issue with Uniden at the moment.

I recently bought my old man an Icom 41s handheld to use as a scanner, because he lost the antenna on his 4 year old Uniden scanner. I have been hunting around for a replacement antenna but it's a proprietary connector so nothing else works. I have emailed Uniden and they told me that they can't help me, it's a discontinued product. Apparently it's the only product they made that has that proprietary connector. Sure, icom have a proprietary connector on their 41s but they also sell adaptors and that proprietary connector was used on the old 40s and about 3-4 other current & 10 year old commercial radios. Anyway i ended up getting the soldering iron out and a few connectors and made my own nice little bnc plug for it, so now i can sell it. Uniden... ewwww


So... the moral of my lame story is that if uniden isn't providing spare parts 2 years after discontinuing a product, what hope does a chinese locker have if you need replacement parts down the track?

BTW, check out my home made BNC adaptor. I don't know if i could fix a chinese locker with a soldering iron... but i'd give it a go




I'm not saying the chinese stuff is crap, but it's something you'd need to consider before purchasing

being in the industry it is law for them to carry or at least be able to procure spare parts for a period of 7 years form the last invoice of goods going out.

Uniden and Dick Smiths think otherwise

there's nothing i can do, besides i havn't been a customer of either company for years and years cheers anyway

and oh yeah... my arb air lockers come with umm cool switches that get real hot

mule75 wrote:

brad-chevlux wrote:

mule75 wrote:i would't be touring in aus with someone who runs a china locker! imagine it failed on the canning or something! nice $300 saving that just ruined your trip.


seriously.... i cant understand why people are so desperate to save a few hundred bucks on a product that is obviously inferior when they prob spend the difference over a few months on crap like smokes, clubs/pubs, buying smoko, tatoo's, whatever.

that statement is a bit to general, even so. why is it so wrong that people want to spend money on other things?

i could't care what people spend thier money on... i'm just saying why not spend the extra (which is not really that much when you're talking mods to trucks) and get the real deal which is proven and not an unknown.
everything chinese i've dealt with normally does the job almost or just as good but doesn't last. then i end up buying the proper product anyway so now i wont go near any chinese cheap copies if i have an option of buying better quality products.

i think we've been here before on the winch subject which you and i both know our views are very different.

if i'm going to part with hard earned i'd rather buy once and have reliability. this goes from cars and tools to anything i buy.



plus i'd rather keep my money circulating in my country.

the cost of having arb or tjm lockers fitted is still alot of money when it's twice what you earn in a week.

Struth wrote: Next they will compare an ARB sold tirfor against an Aldi recovery winch, looking forward to that too

Already been done in 4wd monthly rag, the aldi winch while slow did better than 1 of the brand names, TJM I think from meory their 10,000pound winch failed going up the test hill they had.

brad-chevlux wrote:

mule75 wrote:

brad-chevlux wrote:

mule75 wrote:i would't be touring in aus with someone who runs a china locker! imagine it failed on the canning or something! nice $300 saving that just ruined your trip.


seriously.... i cant understand why people are so desperate to save a few hundred bucks on a product that is obviously inferior when they prob spend the difference over a few months on crap like smokes, clubs/pubs, buying smoko, tatoo's, whatever.

that statement is a bit to general, even so. why is it so wrong that people want to spend money on other things?

i could't care what people spend thier money on... i'm just saying why not spend the extra (which is not really that much when you're talking mods to trucks) and get the real deal which is proven and not an unknown.
everything chinese i've dealt with normally does the job almost or just as good but doesn't last. then i end up buying the proper product anyway so now i wont go near any chinese cheap copies if i have an option of buying better quality products.

i think we've been here before on the winch subject which you and i both know our views are very different.

if i'm going to part with hard earned i'd rather buy once and have reliability. this goes from cars and tools to anything i buy.



plus i'd rather keep my money circulating in my country.

the cost of having arb or tjm lockers fitted is still alot of money when it's twice what you earn in a week.

................