Outer Limits 4x4 Board

joshy wrote:

evanstaniland wrote:

WICKED wrote:Tuff TRUCK not Tuffest in CLASS.

A lot arnt trucks. They are skinned buggys

Doesn't matter, as long as they meet the rules. That's what's good about it, guys there that push the rules to the limit and others with full body full chassis. Don't need another class it works now.

One class is fine but get rid of the chassis rule. Its a weak point in any build and pointless. It doesn't make any of the current buggies anymore 'car' like.

CanberraMav wrote:

joshy wrote:

evanstaniland wrote:

WICKED wrote:Tuff TRUCK not Tuffest in CLASS.

A lot arnt trucks. They are skinned buggys

Doesn't matter, as long as they meet the rules. That's what's good about it, guys there that push the rules to the limit and others with full body full chassis. Don't need another class it works now.

One class is fine but get rid of the chassis rule. Its a weak point in any build and pointless. It doesn't make any of the current buggies anymore 'car' like.

This is what i mentioned in my last post, the amount of chassis that is required to be kept is bugger all and doesn't have any effect on what is built on top of it, lose the chassis rule let people run a full tube chassis with very stringent body rules (maybe like original bonnet, door skins and front guards of chosen have to be used) with percentage requirements like the the current grill rules would be allot better and people can build Tuff Trucks and Ultra cars that can in both events.

Also if this is done comps Like Topri and other comps similar across the country need adopt the same rules so people can travel with there cars and grow the sport.

Mark.

For what it's worth ONE CLASS.

MARKx4 wrote: people can build Tuff Trucks and Ultra cars that can in both events.

Rules done need to change to enter both just build a buggy with chassie rails.

johnsy86 wrote:

MARKx4 wrote: people can build Tuff Trucks and Ultra cars that can in both events.

Rules done need to change to enter both just build a buggy with chassie rails.

But to be competitive across all fields you should have the same build rules, Ultra 4 has various classes and any of the top Tuff Trucks were to enter they wouldn't stand a chance in ultra 4 as they would have to go up against all the purpose built buggy's in unlimited class.

Off Road motor sport is small in this country why make it even smaller by restricting the cars being built to one form and making it impossible to compete competitively in a another form of off road racing or in a class were they wont bother even trying or not even be allowed to compete at all.

Wouldn't you love to be able to build a car that you can have a great shot of finishing in the top 10 in Tuff Truck and then bolt on a different set of tyres and re-tune your shocks and a few other tweaks and still be a top 10 chance of finishing in a totally different form of off road racing?

It may favour the guys with the talent and money like it does in all current forms of our sport (and any form of motor sport in the world) but it also gives us smaller guys a chance to build a car that we can compete in more then 3-5 days a year.

Mark.

^^^^^^ I do like this Mark.


brooksy

brooksy wrote:^^^^^^ I do like this Mark.


brooksy

Thanks Brooksy, means allot coming from some one as respected as you, I would build another truck to compete at a drop of a dim if the rules changed i could compete in more then 1 comp or store it up in Queensland and have to travel up there for every comp.

You would find allot of guys in the same boat as me as well, the idea of buying a chassis off you or superior engineering that you import and have it fully welded and delivered to me for 4-8k is a much better, stronger and safer option then a backyard built cage and to get a professional cage built to suit a car would almost cost the same as a buggy frame anyway.

It is about time people realize that we are a small country and that our codes of motor sport need to work together not against each other. Winch challenge allow ATVs to compete why cant buggys compete as well. We could have had a great rock crawling scene in this country if werock and ozrock didn't try to compete against each other in a extremely small market and one could of still existed and had comps all along the eastern sea board maybe even across the country and all those cars could then have done a few minor changes and competed in Ultra 4 (sorry Aust 4).

There is a rumor that Ultra 4 maybe coming to Australia and i have already said be careful that we don't have another werock ozrock situation.

Mark.

Thanks Mark & again your thoughts make sense & I really hope that we can all put egos aside & grow the sport rather than compete against each other. Leave the competitive side of things on the tracks.


brooksy

brooksy wrote:Thanks Mark & again your thoughts make sense & I really hope that we can all put egos aside & grow the sport rather than compete against each other. Leave the competitive side of things on the tracks.


brooksy

My thoughts exactly, we are surrpost to be a community of like minded people having fun and a little competition is always fun but its time for event organizers to get together to grow the sport and not keep shooting it in the foot.

Mark.

MARKx4 wrote:

brooksy wrote:^^^^^^ I do like this Mark.


brooksy

Thanks Brooksy, means allot coming from some one as respected as you, I would build another truck to compete at a drop of a dim if the rules changed i could compete in more then 1 comp or store it up in Queensland and have to travel up there for every comp.

You would find allot of guys in the same boat as me as well, the idea of buying a chassis off you or superior engineering that you import and have it fully welded and delivered to me for 4-8k is a much better, stronger and safer option then a backyard built cage and to get a professional cage built to suit a car would almost cost the same as a buggy frame anyway.

It is about time people realize that we are a small country and that our codes of motor sport need to work together not against each other. Winch challenge allow ATVs to compete why cant buggys compete as well. We could have had a great rock crawling scene in this country if werock and ozrock didn't try to compete against each other in a extremely small market and one could of still existed and had comps all along the eastern sea board maybe even across the country and all those cars could then have done a few minor changes and competed in Ultra 4 (sorry Aust 4).

There is a rumor that Ultra 4 maybe coming to Australia and i have already said be careful that we don't have another werock ozrock situation.

Mark.

Maybe we should put up a poll on here and see what people are thinking. I agree with all your ideas and opinions. Having people able to buy chassis like you said is a big step forward. It cuts out heaps of the fabrication and gets us all out driving more.

It's going to be hard, one event is a business others are out of love

evanstaniland wrote:It's going to be hard, one event is a business others are out of love

The one that is a business is SSS Winch Challenge i assume? As i mentioned in a earlier post about them in a subtle way was if they can run a ATV class if they want to join in they can run a buggy class to increase the amount of cars which draws bigger crowds that makes more money by increasing the sponsor market and makes the current sponsors happier as they know have a broader market to reach.

Also if they dont want to be apart that is fine, its better to 2 different styles of racing then 4 or 5 competing against each other and half doing the same thing.

Mark.

Tuff truck is what Evan would be implying

joshy wrote:Tuff truck is what Evan would be implying

Pete then should understand what I've been saying then, he has been at both sides of competing and has had cars that I'm sure he wished he could of used in more comps then he had, and that business is all about growing with the times.

Mark.

Yes I was implying tuff truck being the business.
I totally agree with what your saying if the chassis rule was dropped and adopted as an overall rule it would allow for more events for teams.
There are people building ultra4 rigs that won't be able to compete at the likes of tuff truck and toperi and I fall into that category and would live to be able to do those events in my buggy.

But on the other side if you look at tuff truck the amount of hours, effort and money gone into that event it's hard to make rules comply nationally and the events that have been run for live then gain the boom from the hardwork from an event such as tuff truck.
It's always going to be a hard line to walk, I'd love to be able to have one rig to do it all but ATM its not possible. So I have 2 but once the bundy is finished and sold ill be focusing on the buggy!

evanstaniland wrote:Yes I was implying tuff truck being the business.
I totally agree with what your saying if the chassis rule was dropped and adopted as an overall rule it would allow for more events for teams.
There are people building ultra4 rigs that won't be able to compete at the likes of tuff truck and toperi and I fall into that category and would live to be able to do those events in my buggy.

But on the other side if you look at tuff truck the amount of hours, effort and money gone into that event it's hard to make rules comply nationally and the events that have been run for live then gain the boom from the hardwork from an event such as tuff truck.
It's always going to be a hard line to walk, I'd love to be able to have one rig to do it all but ATM its not possible. So I have 2 but once the bundy is finished and sold ill be focusing on the buggy!

I know what you mean and the rules is what is keeping me from building another comp car as i want to build a buggy and living in NSW and dont really have the opportunity to travel for every interstate comp, it is a total waste of time and money. I'm not going to invest allot of money into a bodied rig to compete in 2 comps in NSW and get thrown into unlimited class when i come up north for high speed events.

I'm more then happy to tweak a full tube chassis to fit body panels from a manufactures 4wd so it is recognizable then remove them for high speed events. I'm happy to meet the B pillar width and front grill width rules whilst I'm at it.

There is no real difference between a buggy and a full pushing the rules Tuff Truck except maybe 1m of original chassis a fire wall and original head lights.

So its not pushing there rules to much at all, it is just for a look into possible changing the chassis and fire wall rule.

Mark.

MARKx4 wrote:
There is no real difference between a buggy and a full pushing the rules Tuff Truck except maybe 1m of original chassis a fire wall and original head lights.

So its not pushing there rules to much at all, it is just for a look into possible changing the chassis and fire wall rule.

Mark.

true that

We have 73 nominations for this year.
Why is it so hard to build a car that can do both speed and crawling that has a chassis? Is it because its "uncool" to have a set of rails still or do you think it'll make the car slower or something?????? Look at the 40 that Micka built a couple of years back, looked unreal and had the go fast streamlined look to it and if that thing had an LS motor then it would be a damn good all rounder.
Its really not hard, I just believe that people have this whole "ah im not cool if I build a go fast car that has a set of chassis rails and make it comply with the TT rules".

pricey wrote:We have 73 nominations for this year.
Why is it so hard to build a car that can do both speed and crawling that has a chassis? Is it because its "uncool" to have a set of rails still or do you think it'll make the car slower or something?????? Look at the 40 that Micka built a couple of years back, looked unreal and had the go fast streamlined look to it and if that thing had an LS motor then it would be a damn good all rounder.
Its really not hard, I just believe that people have this whole "ah im not cool if I build a go fast car that has a set of chassis rails and make it comply with the TT rules".

Cost and time is the main factor, it takes a hell of a lot more of both to buy a car strip it back to nothing cut the living crap out of it and build up from there compared to buying a frame in a box or a complete pre welded frame from a importer.

I have no issues with rails and if I have no other choice I may have to do this but isn't it ok to ask questions and push the comfort of a compition organisers every now and then to look at guide line revision every now and then.

I love what you guys have done with tuff truck and if you read my posts with no bias and I really hope you don't think I'm disrespecting the great job you guys have done there is not a lot of change I'm bringing up and if anything I'm highly respecting your current rules and only asking the question of 2.

Mark.

All good Mark, you do raise some good points.
A pre fabbed chassis would be great, and would save some people a lot of time and someone came up with a design that could meet both chassis rails/body width requirements and no rails then it would be a very good thing, and have the best of both worlds.
Also, that post above wasn't aimed directly at you Mark, it's been an ongoing heckle for a while now! Sorry mate I should have made it a bit clearer to not have aimed that at you!
All these opinions are taken on board, and there is plenty to think about!

pricey wrote:All good Mark, you do raise some good points.
A pre fabbed chassis would be great, and would save some people a lot of time and someone came up with a design that could meet both chassis rails/body width requirements and no rails then it would be a very good thing, and have the best of both worlds.
Also, that post above wasn't aimed directly at you Mark, it's been an ongoing heckle for a while now! Sorry mate I should have made it a bit clearer to not have aimed that at you!
All these opinions are taken on board, and there is plenty to think about!

I knew it wasn't mentioned at me but sometimes i don't re read my post before posting and they can come out quite strong which i don't mean. I have asked for measurements of current chassis in production to find a matching body but im sure there has to be a few very close. Also it could create a option for some local companies that have thought of selling chassis but cant meet the price of the US ones a market that they can be worth there while, also if you work with these companies you can have them suit some of your needs and have them CAMs speced at the same time for Aust 4 killing 2 birds with 1 stone.

Mark.

I can't help but feel there has been plenty of buggy comps in the past come and go. Perhaps there's something in the TT rules that has made it more interesting for the spectators, hence why it's grown?
Buggies with skins sounds pretty much like Mod class in WE rock. Just not sure if it's the way to go

Problems with that mark is that either Aus companies are full crap and agree to things they can't deliver or want your first born for stuff that's not that dear even considering shipping and charges.
As it sits there's tuff truck, tough tracks, king of the rim and king of the park to go compete in. Don't know the rules around class 8 or finke or coopers rally. It's hard too have all these comps come together and meet rules for comps that Aren't in aus, haven't rule or that keep changing rules.
Ultra4 Aus will be here soon and they will have too make do with a few competitors for a year but the. I think it will go by a cause it will be really and not talk.

You can only work with what you have not on "I will" and "want too"
I'd love too build a go fast/multi purpose thing but there's no option to drive monthly. Class 8 maybe.

Now how about starting another bread for this and leaving the ccda cage thread be?
Lol that's not going too happen

WICKED wrote:Problems with that mark is that either Aus companies are full of crap and agree to things they can't deliver

I do have to agree..

Very true about Australian companies, it is good to have these discussions very now and then.

Mark.

In saying that dead shit customers, people wanting free shit, event owners/promoters and "sponsored" people promising everything and huge crowd exposure etc and letting the business down doesn't help and I'm sure would contribute too business's just not caring.

WICKED wrote:In saying that dead shit customers, people wanting free shit, event owners/promoters and "sponsored" people promising everything and huge crowd exposure etc and letting the business down doesn't help and I'm sure would contribute too business's just not caring.

Very true again, but there is a few companies that should be able to deliver and if customers believe they should be as cheap as say a IBEX chassis they would have to be dreaming. Maybe half the price again but differently not double the price.

Mark.

MARKx4 wrote:

WICKED wrote:In saying that dead shit customers, people wanting free shit, event owners/promoters and "sponsored" people promising everything and huge crowd exposure etc and letting the business down doesn't help and I'm sure would contribute too business's just not caring.

Very true again, but there is a few companies that should be able to deliver and if customers believe they should be as cheap as say a IBEX chassis they would have to be dreaming. Maybe half the price again but differently not double the price.

Mark.

So you've priced a chassis with a company here?
Was it to your spec or a standard 1 size fits all like the ibex?

there are some local companies that arnt total rip offs.
my buggy is an aus designed and built and should be competitive price wise. Buying in the states depending on what your after can be super cheap even with import and then there are others that cost alot more. i guess it depends on what you want out of a buggy

WICKED wrote:

MARKx4 wrote:

WICKED wrote:In saying that dead shit customers, people wanting free shit, event owners/promoters and "sponsored" people promising everything and huge crowd exposure etc and letting the business down doesn't help and I'm sure would contribute too business's just not caring.

Very true again, but there is a few companies that should be able to deliver and if customers believe they should be as cheap as say a IBEX chassis they would have to be dreaming. Maybe half the price again but differently not double the price.

Mark.

So you've priced a chassis with a company here?
Was it to your spec or a standard 1 size fits all like the ibex?

I have priced a few places here, no one here does a 1 size fits all like the ibex so there is no other option to go with custom specs.

Mark.