Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Tojo wrote:most of you guys are missing the point. As long as your car is in reasonable condition and looks well maintained, has mudflaps, all the lights work, does not have a stupidly high lift and massive tyres you will have no dramas. I doubt they will target every single vehicle. If however you are one of the idiots who drive something with 8 inches of lift and 38 inch tyres on the road then i'd expect some attention. Adopt stealth tactics - have your vehicle that is safe and well maintained that blends in and drive in a manner that does not attract attention and you will fly under the radar (and don't crash!)

The point is your car is still illegal no matter how neat and tidy it looks, and it only takes one DOT officer or cop out of a cast of thousands who is having a bad day or has a personal hatred for 4wds to book you for all your worth.

AJ wrote:Had a long chat today with a helpful Vehicle Inspector from TransportSA.

SA remains unchanged in that:
4WDs are limited to a 50mm increase in tyre diameter over the size stated on the placard. Bigger tyres require eng cert.

Spring lifts are limited to a one third increase to the original OVERALL travel. Bigger lifts are OK with eng cert.

Increase in wheel offset is limited to 26mm overall for passenger vehicles and 4WDs with IFS, IRS or both. For 4WDs wive live front and rear axles the offset can increase by 51mm.

This is the current situation in SA and he doesnt believe anything will be changing.

Might be in SA, but we're talking about what is happening in Vic right now.

Whats actually happening without the internet BS .

After reading this exaggerated thread (nothing unusual for outers) i called a couple of people i know who do know EXACTLY what is going on.

If you're concerned with the registration of your engineered, modified vehicle look at the Vicroads website at the list of approved engineers. A couple of engineers have been removed from that list.

If you don't see your engineer on that list. You may receive a letter from Vicroads.

Any vehicle recalled will be inspected, not necessarily de registered, if it complies you have nothing to worry about. If it does not your registration will be suspended and will be required to make your vehicle comply to the necessary ADR's.

As usual there are a number of people confusing modifications to a vehicle not needing an engineers report and modifications to a vehicle that do need an engineers report.

At the end of the day you can do almost anything to a motor vehicle and have it engineered as long as you can prove that it complies to ADR's. If you can prove this, then engineer will sign it off and they will register it.

I will also go out on a limb and say that you could probably get SPOA approved by QLD RTA if you wanted to throw that cash at getting an engineer to do a swerve/roll over test, brake test etc etc.

oK, WE ARE ALL TALKING ABOUT suspension lift limitations and tyres sizes, but does this new document for Vicroads specify anything about custom made bullbars being fitted and/or dual side rails and sidesteps?

Will I have to remove my expensive and big bullbar from my hilux and drive around with a "pedestrian friendly" plastic bumper on the front?

I didnt read anything that specified new regulations for bullbars in the document. If anyone can find anything please let us all know.

After reading this thread I contacted both the RTA technical hotline and the engineer who approved 35's on my Patrol 3 weeks ago and as far as NSW is concerned NOTHING HAS CHANGED and probably will not FOR QUITE A WHILE YET.
As for any new laws being retrospective it seems that isn't even a consideration.
Apparently the transport dept in NSW has its hands full with Sydney issues.
Yes, I know this thread is about Vic, but there have been some references to NSW in the comments.

mmaaxx wrote:oK, WE ARE ALL TALKING ABOUT suspension lift limitations and tyres sizes, but does this new document for Vicroads specify anything about custom made bullbars being fitted and/or dual side rails and sidesteps?

Will I have to remove my expensive and big bullbar from my hilux and drive around with a "pedestrian friendly" plastic bumper on the front?

looking at that bulbar I doubt it has complied with regulations before all this. they are quite specific about the bull bars and that they cannot protrude forwards at the top.

muppet_man67 wrote:... looking at that bulbar I doubt it has complied with regulations before all this. they are quite specific about the bull bars and that they cannot protrude forwards at the top.

I though that this was only a recommendation not a law - yet...

if true, there goes the FAT bar off the market.

Nope, though that may depend on state laws, anthing with forward protrusions, whether it be spotlights, fishing rod holders or stinger type bars has been banned for quite a few years...

Beastmavster wrote:Nope, though that may depend on state laws, anthing with forward protrusions, whether it be spotlights, fishing rod holders or stinger type bars has been banned for quite a few years...

I know the rod holders, stingers and sharp objects were no go, but the bar itself, i rememebr reading something stating that they were recommending things, and "hoped" the manufacturers (TJM etc) would follow the recommendations.

For owners of GU wagons. This is from the series1 GU owners manual.



Add 50mm to the diameter of the 245/85/16 tyres listed there and what do you get???

Something a little offtopic just to throw in. Just ignore this if it is totally irrelevant.

All them dopey little buzz box CRV's and other Euro type 4x4 and non-4x4 cars that have their brake lights, tail lights and reverse lights up near the roof line. They *should* be all illegal, according to current ADR's.

ADR 13:
Brake Lights, parking lights and blinkers are to be no more than 1200mm from the ground. Reverse lights to be no more than 1000mm from the ground.

Next time you see one of these dopey vehicles, do a rough measurement in your head, or go grab a tape measure. Some of them are well and truly above those figures.

If I'm wrong about that though, I'll acknowledge and accept it. Just that I had to lower my rear lights to pass a blue slip. And they are now way lower than some of them buzz box cars.

AJ wrote:For owners of GU wagons. This is from the series1 GU owners manual.


Add 50mm to the diameter of the 245/85/16 tyres listed there and what do you get???

245 x 0.85 x 2 = 416.5 mm

416/25.4 = 16.39"

+16" for rim. = 32.39"

+50mm = 34.3"

Not 35"s. Guess you're on 34" JT's then
Not 35's....

DAMKIA wrote:

muppet_man67 wrote:you need to include droop as well as uptravel? Im guessing it would be about double. I may be wrong.

Supposedly it cannot be changed more than 1/3 either way (above normal travel), but that probably wouldn't stop you from using a sway bar to limit the total "constrained" travel with super long travel suspension, and disconnecting the bar in the bush.

This is exactly what I questioned in my submission on the draft document, a lot of IFS cars are so limited by the swaybar the bumpstop travell is irrevant. Even the upward travel to the bumstop is very small in a lot IFS because its, not needed in the same way as a straight axle although removing the rubber bump stops gives something of a way out.
Regards Charlie

grimbo wrote:working out lift from original travel doesn't mean that the new suspension can't have more travel. You can make a suspension work alot better with more travel without having to lift it. Lifting a suspension, especially on a lef sprung vejicle usuaully results in less travel due to stiffer springs beingused. Does it say anything about using longer springs because that is where travel can come from

This could lead to alot better thought suspension systems

For coil suspension the new code bit stricter. The old code required that the coil be unable to drop out wheras the new code requires the coil always be under tension making a lot of really long shocks illegal.

Beastmavster wrote:245 x 0.85 x 2 = 416.5 mm

416/25.4 = 16.39"

+16" for rim. = 32.39"

+50mm = 34.3"

Not 35"s. Guess you're on 34" JT's then
Not 35's....

tire rack website came up with 32.6 so you're close
34s without needing eng cert is cool though

Well, using the mathematical calculation is probably how they'd do it for vic roads approval.


You may find you're actually allowed a tolerance on top of that - dunno what the tyre and rim manual says.


If 32.6" is the go then most 35"s would be legal

mmaaxx wrote:oK, WE ARE ALL TALKING ABOUT suspension lift limitations and tyres sizes, but does this new document for Vicroads specify anything about custom made bullbars being fitted and/or dual side rails and sidesteps?

Will I have to remove my expensive and big bullbar from my hilux and drive around with a "pedestrian friendly" plastic bumper on the front?

Now that you included your number plate in the pic you may have to remove it sooner than you think.

Peter. (do you think the RTA can get outers?)

hi all
it was only time don,t blame the road transport for this 4wds kill small
kids well thats what the news said !!! after all we do own the road, drive on the foot paths , suffer roadrage , stuff the bush up , hell i think we even started the war .
so they can,t ban buying a 4wd so let,s make it hard to do any mods that will stop us !!! but lets face it some of us do need to be pulled back in line
a real comp truck is just that they use them not pose driving around town
i do think all states should be the same that way we will all be legal and know where we stand .
thanks

droopypete wrote:Peter. (do you think the RTA can get outers?)

the cops are

bogged wrote:

droopypete wrote:Peter. (do you think the RTA can get outers?)

the cops are

I dont think there are any Vic cops here are there? Maybe RN can check for us......

droopypete wrote:

mmaaxx wrote:oK, WE ARE ALL TALKING ABOUT suspension lift limitations and tyres sizes, but does this new document for Vicroads specify anything about custom made bullbars being fitted and/or dual side rails and sidesteps?

Will I have to remove my expensive and big bullbar from my hilux and drive around with a "pedestrian friendly" plastic bumper on the front?

Now that you included your number plate in the pic you may have to remove it sooner than you think.

Peter. (do you think the RTA can get outers?)

the vehicle only needs to comply with the ADR's in effect in the year of manufacture.

OK, been away for a while, only just waded through this thread.

Quick comment on the comparison with semi-automatic firearms: once the government made them illegal they compensated owners for the loss, because it's required by the Constitution. I don't know that a comparison with vehicle modifications is really valid, and I think that discussion is a little off topic.

I've recently been negotiating with engineers to get my mods approved so I can register my 4by in SA. The engineer who's been most helpful (speaking relatively here) has no idea when the NCOP will be adopted in SA, and says SA Transport is in no hurry.

He also stated that any modifications exceeding 50mm COMBINED LIFT will require engineering, and the engineering requirements under the NCOP are more stringent. Using braking tests as an example, I only need to prove that my vehicle is capable of passing a set braking test. Under the NCOP, he claims I would need to demonstrate that the braking capability (with larger tyres) is the same as the original configuration - i.e. NO deterioration in braking performance.



Scott

Hi Scott
The big problem with the NCOP is the cost and inconvience of the formal serve test rather than the engineer driving it and saying OK.Don't know about the brake test, once engineered you need a blue slip and I guess it up to the inspector whether he does a full rego check or just a change of vehicle details. I'm a bit confused about how you preserve the braking the braking perforance whist changing to biggeer wheels unless they mean the front and rear balance,lots of stuff be be worked out here.
Regards Charlie

Charlie wrote:I'm a bit confused about how you preserve the braking the braking perforance whist changing to biggeer wheels unless they mean the front and rear balance,lots of stuff be be worked out here.

That's what separates the good engineered trucks from the bad... changing diffs, adapting truck brakes- some guys do whatever it takes. My hilux on 35's stops (and handles) better than standard because of bigger braked, wider tracked 80 series diffs. Same for sierra on hilux diffs.

I'm in the same boat.. I have to prove to my engineer that I have upgraded my axle strength, brakes etc by the equilivent percantage of tire size increase.... he has no drama's engineering 35's as long as I can prove to him I've upgraded everything accordingly

Simon

I have measured my sus travel cos my spring are flat in the front.I lifted the cruiser up with a forklift until the wheel is of the ground.235mm is the travel so div by 3 and 3"lift is O.K for me.I could go 2"body which is more then enough.I have a question why would you want to drive on 35's with fuel being so high. Anyone wanting a big legal lift go air bag up and down when you want to

I not sure that only the trucks with 35 will be called back shoudn't all spring overs be included cos a 6 to 7 inch lift would be over 1/3 off travel yes there not calling all trucks back and go to the comps to get regos are some off you guys a bit paranoid

bogged wrote:
Anything engineered with bigger tyres, and/or higher suspension according to Vicroads, will be recalled, and deregistered until it complies...

You have an engineers certificate for 6" lift, have you reieved anything to say this has been revoked?

bogged wrote:

muppet_man67 wrote:... looking at that bulbar I doubt it has complied with regulations before all this. they are quite specific about the bull bars and that they cannot protrude forwards at the top.

I though that this was only a recommendation not a law - yet...

if true, there goes the FAT bar off the market.

Is that OIL dripping out under the 'trol??? R U running a Landy drive train??? Or is it what Rover call a 'controlled sweat'

JC