Outer Limits 4x4 Board

hey guys, need some advice on my best options for a kill switch,

its on a carby TB42 GQ patrol on straight gas,

what have you other comp guys done

thanks in advance,

below is what the TT guys email me when i aksed about the best way to go aBOUT THIS,

"you can buy these heavy duty switch like they use on most trucks these day, it just has to be in a easy access fro both driver and navi. its a hard one to explain, but basicly you need a heavy duty switch that you get easily access to, once turned off all the electrics are cut to the vehicles electronics

A battery mechanical isolation switch for the battery that provides power to the engine, ignition and fuel pump shall be securely mounted within easy reach of each member of the Crew and this switch may isolate the negative terminal."

This one you turn 90deg for 'on', and if you push it down it switches off.

You could put it between the battery and the ground (to the engine)?



Or you can get one with a key, so it also makes it harder for thieves.

yeah i have a switch already, just wondering what is the best way to wire it, i was thinkin of power to the coil, or maybe even neg battry but unsure what is better,

Probably on the negative,if it chafs, its not lights out,cheers paul.

I know it is aparently hard on ECUs if you just kill the negative side of the battery - I don't know for sure - perhaps the coil would be a better option.

I was thinking you could use a LPG saftey switch and wire it backwards
you could use what is supposed to be the coil side to be live and then have it kill what it thinks is the lpg solinoids - which you could make it kill the injectors, fuel pump or ignition.

Wire it up onto the dash

Just a thought

Tom

some people have it on there bullbar some people have it inside the car... all depends on the person

Like screwballs last year

"Who took my key"

Easiest way would be to just place the switch between the net terminal and chassis, and considering your car doesnt run a computer this may be the best option. Also handy if you have a breakage and it leads to a live wire earthing out. Cuts current imediatley before a fire or other damage happens.

Layto....

Yeah, you don't want all of the power running through it....

Just put it between your negative terminal and the ground point.

Hi,

Is this the same as running a dual batt switch and can effect computers also?

Thanks

Nic

lay80n wrote:Easiest way would be to just place the switch between the net terminal and chassis, and considering your car doesnt run a computer this may be the best option. Also handy if you have a breakage and it leads to a live wire earthing out. Cuts current imediatley before a fire or other damage happens.

Layto....

What would be the best option if you are running an ECU? I was going to run mine on the neg lead but now Im not so sure.

Coil?

In the first post it stipulates fuel pump to be cut off also.

Removing the ground will cut everything on the vehicle, and as stated "once turned off all the electrics are cut to the vehicles electronics".

I know I'd rather a big ground wire running to my dash, not a big power cable.
Can damage be done by removing the ground suddenly Layto?? (Besides falling into nothingness)

hey hot4ok -> where did you find the the one with the key in the second pic, been thinking of putting one in the truck for theft protection but have only found the marine ones with the plastic "key".

HotFourOk wrote:In the first post it stipulates fuel pump to be cut off also.

Removing the ground will cut everything on the vehicle, and as stated "once turned off all the electrics are cut to the vehicles electronics".

I know I'd rather a big ground wire running to my dash, not a big power cable.
Can damage be done by removing the ground suddenly Layto?? (Besides falling into nothingness)

Yeah I don't think just cutting the coil really satisfies the stated requirement.

Personally I think ECUs are more durable than people give them credit for, but hey, I am not the one who would have to pay for a replacement so I won't say you should just go ahead and cut all power at the battery.

aussie_stu wrote:hey hot4ok -> where did you find the the one with the key in the second pic, been thinking of putting one in the truck for theft protection but have only found the marine ones with the plastic "key".

It was an overseas site...

The Toolbox Shop

and here also

http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.co.u ... tisol.html

HotFourOk wrote:Can damage be done by removing the ground suddenly Layto?? (Besides falling into nothingness)

What usually happens is when you disconnect an earth for an ECU or any computer in the car is that it will find another path for any capacitence to earth, this can be via more sensitive parts within the ECU which can't handle the extra current.

ECU's are faily durable considering they aren't much more sophisticated than an old 186 processor but made with modern day components. Breaking them just by disconnecting the earth from the battery would be a one in a million chance these days. You would be more likely to destroy them by static electricity.

These are crap. Not rated for enough current draw.

You can buy a proper one from Revolution Race gear for a little over $100. Remember if this switchcraps itself your vehicle will not move anywhere.

The switch must kill everything electric on your vehicle (exept your winch from memory). Therefore the switch needs to be rated for the entire current draw for the vehicle.

Gribble wrote:

HotFourOk wrote:Can damage be done by removing the ground suddenly Layto?? (Besides falling into nothingness)

What usually happens is when you disconnect an earth for an ECU or any computer in the car is that it will find another path for any capacitence to earth, this can be via more sensitive parts within the ECU which can't handle the extra current.

ECU's are faily durable considering they aren't much more sophisticated than an old 186 processor but made with modern day components. Breaking them just by disconnecting the earth from the battery would be a one in a million chance these days. You would be more likely to destroy them by static electricity.

Yes it can, as gribble said its not common but yes it can. In this case with a petrol carby patrol 4.2 on gas, the engine electrics are basic at best. No complex computer or anything. Hell some of these didnt have electronic ignition early on . I wouldn't recomend running a switch like this rigged to the earth wire on a touareg, but for this application it may be the go. Wire the winch in so that it is independant of the main electrics (should be that way anyway). Then it is possible to kill ignition and fuel pump with the switch.

Layto....

My ecu sits on its own fuse for permanent power. Even when the kill switch is activated,the car turns of via the main power cable into ecm. You are more likely to kill an ECM with one drop of water which will fry up the insulation and caboom. I run isolating solenoids on both batterys,so turn the isolater of,no drivies anymore,switching solenoid negative through isolater terminal as they dont handle to much current,Cheers Paul.

okay, so sounds like neg switch is the go, as it wil kill all my LPG solenoids and all so it sounds sweet,

as for the winch it will have its very own alternator and duel battries, does this mean that my car will find an earth between these battries and continue running?

Umm, just thinking aloud out here.
If you put a kill switch between your negative battery terminal and the body/chassis, it probably won't kill everything when you switch it as the alternator will keep the motor running.
You'd need to isolate the motor's ground to chassis as well on the same switch.

The car can easily run without a battery once started.

You need to isolate every power source to the motor.

sierrajim wrote:

These are crap. Not rated for enough current draw.

You can buy a proper one from Revolution Race gear for a little over $100. Remember if this switchcraps itself your vehicle will not move anywhere.

The switch must kill everything electric on your vehicle (exept your winch from memory). Therefore the switch needs to be rated for the entire current draw for the vehicle.

I agree they dont feel like the best quality or look as good as the other ones the in pictures above but the $20 one I've fitted inline with my earth lead is supposed to be rated to 500 Amps for about 20 seconds or so. It works fine for my petrol motor but I wouldnt use it in a truck......actually a truck place would be a good place to get a better one if so desired

Mark2 wrote:

sierrajim wrote:

These are crap. Not rated for enough current draw.

You can buy a proper one from Revolution Race gear for a little over $100. Remember if this switchcraps itself your vehicle will not move anywhere.

The switch must kill everything electric on your vehicle (exept your winch from memory). Therefore the switch needs to be rated for the entire current draw for the vehicle.

I agree they dont feel like the best quality or look as good as the other ones the in pictures above but the $20 one I've fitted inline with my earth lead is supposed to be rated to 500 Amps for about 20 seconds or so. It works fine for my petrol motor but I wouldnt use it in a truck......actually a truck place would be a good place to get a better one if so desired

I've replaced 3 of these kill switches in the past due to dodgy contacts. I now use Blue Sea (do a search - available from marine shops) swithces with no hint of a problem. I'd highly recommend them

Speedway again, old floor hi-beam dip switch to the coil. If running an electric fuel pump then run this through the switch too (don't need it pumping if your on your side unless you want some excitment in ya life - though short it may be )

ozy1 wrote:okay, so sounds like neg switch is the go, as it wil kill all my LPG solenoids and all so it sounds sweet,

as for the winch it will have its very own alternator and duel battries, does this mean that my car will find an earth between these battries and continue running?

anyone?

Would depend on how well you isolate the circuts so there is no possibility of crossover or shorting from exposed wires etc.

No,because if you open the circuit from the battery that runs the car it won't but you must charge batteries through a isolater,which contain diodes. Diodes only allow voltage to flow one way,Cheers Paul.

Davidh wrote:Umm, just thinking aloud out here.
If you put a kill switch between your negative battery terminal and the body/chassis, it probably won't kill everything when you switch it as the alternator will keep the motor running.
You'd need to isolate the motor's ground to chassis as well on the same switch.

The car can easily run without a battery once started.

You need to isolate every power source to the motor.

i agree with this totally. i had this problem in the mud4b and it was the alternator providing power to the main line, but if you use the battery side of the kill switch it worked..

beebee wrote:

Mark2 wrote:

sierrajim wrote:

These are crap. Not rated for enough current draw.

You can buy a proper one from Revolution Race gear for a little over $100. Remember if this switchcraps itself your vehicle will not move anywhere.

The switch must kill everything electric on your vehicle (exept your winch from memory). Therefore the switch needs to be rated for the entire current draw for the vehicle.

I agree they dont feel like the best quality or look as good as the other ones the in pictures above but the $20 one I've fitted inline with my earth lead is supposed to be rated to 500 Amps for about 20 seconds or so. It works fine for my petrol motor but I wouldnt use it in a truck......actually a truck place would be a good place to get a better one if so desired

I've replaced 3 of these kill switches in the past due to dodgy contacts. I now use Blue Sea (do a search - available from marine shops) swithces with no hint of a problem. I'd highly recommend them

Do the Blue Sea ones by any chance use the same mounting holes as the one above?

Mark2 wrote:

beebee wrote:

Mark2 wrote:

sierrajim wrote:

These are crap. Not rated for enough current draw.

You can buy a proper one from Revolution Race gear for a little over $100. Remember if this switchcraps itself your vehicle will not move anywhere.

The switch must kill everything electric on your vehicle (exept your winch from memory). Therefore the switch needs to be rated for the entire current draw for the vehicle.

I agree they dont feel like the best quality or look as good as the other ones the in pictures above but the $20 one I've fitted inline with my earth lead is supposed to be rated to 500 Amps for about 20 seconds or so. It works fine for my petrol motor but I wouldnt use it in a truck......actually a truck place would be a good place to get a better one if so desired

I've replaced 3 of these kill switches in the past due to dodgy contacts. I now use Blue Sea (do a search - available from marine shops) swithces with no hint of a problem. I'd highly recommend them

Do the Blue Sea ones by any chance use the same mounting holes as the one above?

No they dont