Outer Limits 4x4 Board

ok, i have to settle a dispute with my boss.
do internal roll cages bolt to the floor of the body or go through to the chassis??

all the cages i have seen have a plate bolted to the body. i assume there is one under the floor effectively sandwiching it.

cheers
jordan

yes internals bolt to the floor with plate top aqnd bottom of the floor of a specific size and thickness

see ccda or cams website for al the specs, ccda spec cams type 3? 6 point and b pillar back cages

thanks tiny.
feels good to be right for once!!!

stuckwithlux wrote:thanks tiny.
feels good to be right for once!!!

no probs

remember the feeling,it could be a while till ya right again

Does anyone know the reason why its not legal to bolt an internal rollcage to the chassis? I mean bracing the exterior plate back to the chassis, not cutting the floor and bringing the tube through to the chassis.

RAY185 wrote:Does anyone know the reason why its not legal to bolt an internal rollcage to the chassis? I mean bracing the exterior plate back to the chassis, not cutting the floor and bringing the tube through to the chassis.

i beleive its bacuse the body is meant to have some flex in it, by tieing it to the chassis you are minimizing the flex

thats my understanding, but I could well be wrong

if the body breaks off the chassis then you are in a safety cell type thing, where as if you attach it to the chassis then if you break the body free youll be all washed up inside. that why my explination when i asked the same question.

Engineer had no prob,Cheers Paul.

Centre hoop




Rear hoop

chunderlicious wrote:if the body breaks off the chassis then you are in a safety cell type thing, where as if you attach it to the chassis then if you break the body free youll be all washed up inside. that why my explination when i asked the same question.

huh

if you sandwich the floor between the rollcage plates and the chassis mount plates, you've added some pretty beefy new body mount.

break the body off the chassis then, and i think you have alot more to worry about

bad_religion_au wrote:

chunderlicious wrote:if the body breaks off the chassis then you are in a safety cell type thing, where as if you attach it to the chassis then if you break the body free youll be all washed up inside. that why my explination when i asked the same question.

huh

if you sandwich the floor between the rollcage plates and the chassis mount plates, you've added some pretty beefy new body mount.

break the body off the chassis then, and i think you have alot more to worry about

This is exactly my reasoning. By tieing your rollbar to the chassis in this way you've basically created 4 or 6 more body mounts. How can this be anything other than a good thing?

you can take the internal roll cage to the chassis....you just have to built limited flexibility into the mounting point.

http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/pro ... 551&page=1

bottom of page is a pic of what i mean.

your body " was" rubber mounted, and now its solid mounted to the chassis.
its going to flex and tear the floor around those mounts in time.

Jes

jessie928 wrote:your body " was" rubber mounted, and now its solid mounted to the chassis.
its going to flex and tear the floor around those mounts in time.

Jes

...and as importantly pop out or crack windscreens and jam doors.

I think you will also find it possibly makes exit from the body impossible in an emergency due to bodyflex jamming doos/locks if the chassis gets bent up (chassis move a lot more than the bodies do). The roll cage is meant to improve the body's resistance to flex and protect the occupants, not to strengthen the chassis.

That makes alot of sense when you put it that way. Thanks for the info.

There is a pic below showing car flexed,do you see a driver,no,i'm holding the camera and no i didn't climb out the window or back,no, iopened the door,BULLSHIT,BULLSHIT,BULLSHIT, and as the floor tearing,BULLSHIT.

MART wrote:There is a pic below showing car flexed,do you see a driver,no,i'm holding the camera and no i didn't climb out the window or back,no, iopened the door,BULLSHIT,BULLSHIT,BULLSHIT, and as the floor tearing,BULLSHIT.

I think DAMKIA was referring to when your in an accident.

looks a little overkill on the bar work there mate. looks good though, but how much weight did you add there.

and over time as the car keeps flexing and moving around you'll find the doors will not open if you ahve it mounted to chassis ( we call this fatigue), and yes if there is an accident and the body breaks off from it's mounts, i wouldnt want to be inside.

dogbreath_48 wrote:

MART wrote:There is a pic below showing car flexed,do you see a driver,no,i'm holding the camera and no i didn't climb out the window or back,no, iopened the door,BULLSHIT,BULLSHIT,BULLSHIT, and as the floor tearing,BULLSHIT.

I think DAMKIA was referring to when your in an accident.

Mate of mine suffered severe head injuries in a Zook coz the barwork punched straight through the floor. Brain injury, the works.

Just make sure you use decent sized plates.

I rolled the last zuk 84 model backward after climbing a bank,rolled 3 times,had a full cage similiar to this and it held up only kinking the front hoop down 1 inch as that was the first bang on the ground,that one was clamped and this one is fully welded. The bar that comes from the front drivers side is one piece all the way back to the rear hoop 40x5. The roll bar is shaped like that for rear seat protection,Cheers Paul.

MART wrote:I rolled the last zuk 84 model backward after climbing a bank,rolled 3 times,had a full cage similiar to this and it held up only kinking the front hoop down 1 inch as that was the first bang on the ground,that one was clamped and this one is fully welded. The bar that comes from the front drivers side is one piece all the way back to the rear hoop 40x5. The roll bar is shaped like that for rear seat protection,Cheers Paul.

mate every vehicle that is a cab chassis is rubber mounted for a good reason.

a zook only weighs 45kg. you probably have half a ton of barwork on it, LOL

Looking at the pics of the Zook with the chassi mounted cage, are you planning on doing any CCDA sanctioned events with it?
If so the sandwich plates would not be up to the CAMS specs, as for each integral part of the cage, were it meets with a sandwich plate CAMS have specified the number of sqaure millimeters the plate must cover and conform to the shape of the floor pan were possible, for example "A" pillar support must have a minimum dimension of 100mmx100mmx3mm and "A" + "B" pillar plates are to pick up on two planes for additional support to provide at a minimum of 15,000mm2.

As for the way the cage is mounted to the chassi i agree with the other posts that the floor will crack in the exact shape of your sandwich plates over time, i used to race VRC (Vic rally championship) in a 92 Diahatsu G100 Charade,the cage had to be rigidly mounted to the body/chassi as it was a monocoque vehicle, over time stress fractures became more evident around the floor plates and between the shock towers, this was a professionally built Chromoly cage built by Fab"Ray"Cations in total it was a 12 point cage that went through the firewall in the horizontal plane and attched to the strut tops, and the car was as rigid as hell.

I have nothing against your vehicle personally, I actually like the concept and the engineering of some of the components is great, but some of the posts about your chassi mounting of the cage has come from people in the know and have experienced first hand what happens when it all becomes to rigid.

Ben

Points taken,but it is not a racecar or a rally car,it was built to have fun in a safe manner,mainly built for rock climbing so it generally travels between 0-30 km an hour so i don,t think i will have a problem,as for fatigue it run coils and the suspension is very smooth even on tracks as it weighs only 1460 kg,each 35 weighs 35 kg x 5 =175kg so i dont no how you guys can weigh a photo. Plus the extra weight of the diffs, so it doesn,t weigh much more than a standard zuk,Cheers Paul.