Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Need some advice...

I really like the way the Winch is mounted on the above mentioned FJ45...
"Mounted underneath the car, with cable guides running to the front and rear, one winch used for all directions..."

My questions are:

(1) There seems to be enough room under my Middy Cruzar for the mounting of the winch, but where would you best attach the cable guides for clearance?

(2) Would Plasma rope stand up the tension and friction of the cable guides?

Just an option to keep less gear on the front of the car...


Meldge

A few views and no responses...

Maybe everyone thinks silly of me for thinking it...

run it along your chassis rail and keep the eye bolts as far apart as you can .and you will get friction from cable or plasma

Meldge, i like it. didn't Dobbin use hydraulic, if have electric winch then have to run cables as well. what type of winch do you have?

i'm going to have to dig out the magazine articles now and have a look again, does anyone know of website that has pics on this? planning on buying middy, mite look into this myself running winch underneath


cheers
Lance

i've seen quite a few centre mounted winches. All on utes or traybacks. None on wagons, SWB or MWB. They take up a bit of room and so are a lot easier to fit and use if mounted under a ute or trayback. don't forget that you must thread the cable back through the guides to change from front to back. I wouldn't think it feasable except in a ute. Even then it would be a real pain changeing from front to back.

Tojo wrote:i've seen quite a few centre mounted winches. All on utes or traybacks. None on wagons, SWB or MWB. They take up a bit of room and so are a lot easier to fit and use if mounted under a ute or trayback. don't forget that you must thread the cable back through the guides to change from front to back. I wouldn't think it feasable except in a ute. Even then it would be a real pain changeing from front to back.

yeah, was thinking along the same lines since my post. i know they mentioned in 4wd monthly that (dobbins) because was ute could check cable incase something went wrong. but how do you check while winching?

it would be a real bitch to change cable around, i assume the eyes in the guides would need to fairly large. hey Tojo, how is it done, as i assume the bottom of winch drum left open so can run cable front or back? so how do you bolt winch up, if hight mount then winching rearwards would this put extra stress on mounts? would low mount work better, where mounts are on bottom?

actually, wouldn't low mount work well as has lower vertical profile, mite fit under floor plan of a 4b? don't now, seems like good idea in principle as can (but probably not often as hassle) winch backwards. extra work needed originally, but then dont need second winch/bar etc. would be nice to see pics of how people have done this

The ibex uses this system. There is serious reinforcement of the spaceframe to handle the stresses.

There is no need to re-thread to change direction. The winch mounts behind the front seats below the floor facing backwards. The cable runs straight back and pops out of the rear bumper with a small fairlead.

Next the cable makes a U-turn around a pulley and goes to the front of the vehicle where it appears on the left hand side. The hook now goes on the end of the wire.

To winch forwards you winch normally, except all the forces of the winching will be pulling the rear bumper forwards. Hence the space frame reinforcement of the Ibex.

To winch backwards you attach the winch hook to the front bumper. Make it a solid mounting point!!! Now pull the wire where it does the u-turn around the rear pulley on the bumper. Use a snatch block to attach this to your anchor.

All reverse pulls will be double line pulls.

You can also attach the front hook to an anchor and the rear loop to an anchor and winch yourself along the line like a cable car.

Steve

it's a great system ...
here are a few pics of the setup in the Ibex...
http://www.red-ibex.com/winch.htm
unfortunately no underbody shots. much prefer having the winch in the vehicle.

flat4 wrote:The ibex uses this system. There is serious reinforcement of the spaceframe to handle the stresses.

sorry, what do you mean spaceframe? bracket holding winch, rear bumper or front bull bar?

There is no need to re-thread to change direction. The winch mounts behind the front seats below the floor facing backwards. The cable runs straight back and pops out of the rear bumper with a small fairlead.

Next the cable makes a U-turn around a pulley and goes to the front of the vehicle where it appears on the left hand side. The hook now goes on the end of the wire.

To winch forwards you winch normally, except all the forces of the winching will be pulling the rear bumper forwards. Hence the space frame reinforcement of the Ibex.

To winch backwards you attach the winch hook to the front bumper. Make it a solid mounting point!!! Now pull the wire where it does the u-turn around the rear pulley on the bumper. Use a snatch block to attach this to your anchor.

All reverse pulls will be double line pulls.

now this sounds good. wouldn't you still need guides underneath as most 4b's dont have a clear line front to back? this system would mean rear pulley further back than rear bar?

You can also attach the front hook to an anchor and the rear loop to an anchor and winch yourself along the line like a cable car.

that would

mite do some surfin later, see if can find any more info about this, the ibex system sounds good steve.

Bluey wrote:

flat4 wrote:The ibex uses this system. There is serious reinforcement of the spaceframe to handle the stresses.

sorry, what do you mean spaceframe? bracket holding winch, rear bumper or front bull bar?

space frame same as most buggys, race cars right? tube bars connected in triangular formation to provide strength?. try thinking first next time

this is used instead of having chassis, so couldnt you mid mount winch if have enough braceing forward and back to chassis rails from actual bracket holding winch. surely this is how other people would be doing it

flat4 wrote:The ibex uses this system. There is serious reinforcement of the spaceframe to handle the stresses.

There is no need to re-thread to change direction. The winch mounts behind the front seats below the floor facing backwards. The cable runs straight back and pops out of the rear bumper with a small fairlead.

Next the cable makes a U-turn around a pulley and goes to the front of the vehicle where it appears on the left hand side. The hook now goes on the end of the wire.

To winch forwards you winch normally, except all the forces of the winching will be pulling the rear bumper forwards. Hence the space frame reinforcement of the Ibex.

To winch backwards you attach the winch hook to the front bumper. Make it a solid mounting point!!! Now pull the wire where it does the u-turn around the rear pulley on the bumper. Use a snatch block to attach this to your anchor.

All reverse pulls will be double line pulls.

You can also attach the front hook to an anchor and the rear loop to an anchor and winch yourself along the line like a cable car.

Steve

That is a brilliant sounding system.
It would be perfect with a Thomas PTO.

I will definately be looking at this on my next buggie as not only do you save entry angle and weight, you also get double pulling power from your winch.

biggest prob i can see is the tight bend on the fairleads

Carl Coight wrote:I will definately be looking at this on my next buggie as not only do you save entry angle and weight, you also get double pulling power from your winch.

Next Buggy?

How many have you got?

To answer a few of the questions in one go...

The Ibex is a space frame vehicle with LR wunning gear. There is no chassis.

Fairlead angles... Yes and no. Start here http://www.ibex4x4.co.uk/k2pic01.htm and click through the rest of the pics. You can see the rear cable routing in a few pics. There appears to be a pulley for the cable to run through during front pulls. There is a friction issue here, but nothing that good maintenance & lubrication wouldn't solve.

There is a tube along what would be the left chassis leg for the cable to run in. You do not want this catching on things.

There are also pics here: http://www.ebroadcast.com.au/ecars/Foers/Winch.html

There has been considerable work gone into making sure that the car is the same length after winching. So be very careful if you are thinking of making a similar system yourself.

The system was invented by John Foers and he has patented it.

Steve

To me it seems like alot of expense and trouble to be able to winch forward or back .. why not use two winches ???

there were 3 or 4 vechiles at tuff truck 2002 using the mid mount winch setup, most of them were zooks with highmounts, is really good for your approach angle, wear on the runners and cable would be you biggest problem though

Two winches - I just lost my Job, I can't afford two winches...

But buying some metal and making a mid mount cradle would probably be a lot cheaper... (need a lot of bracing, i dont want it to end up as long as a troopy)...

You would mount it so that the four rollers off the winch just face straight down, and then run through guides, (i like the idea of the tubing, so it doesnt catch on anything) and leave it tied off at probably the front of the car, as that might be the direction you winch from the most...

Better approach and departure angles, the weight is evened out through the middle of the car...

Just not sure on what sort of winch i should use for this te of mount.

If i have it front mount i would probably get plasma wire, but i would have thought that steel cable would last better on cable guides than plasma???


Meldge

all the ones ive seen have been mounted through the floor of the rig so the driver can operate the spool etc, if you mount it right under the rig with no top access how you going to change it?

Dude, to technical...

Having never used a winched before, not sure on what you mean...

spazbot

all the ones ive seen have been mounted through the floor of the rig so the driver can operate the spool etc, if you mount it right under the rig with no top access how you going to change it?

if the winch rollers are facing down, all you would need to do is change the direction - granted you would have to crawl underneath to do it...

You could run the remote controls to the dash or somewhere up front to control whilst steering/driving out of whatever has you needing the winch in the first place...

Unless there is something else I dont undersand, or know about the way a winch works.[/quote]

Question:

If you are stuck in a boghole and your only way out is backwards. Who swims under the vehicle to re-route the cable ????????

ok you got a winch, its either set to free or spool
free means you can pull the cable out by hand, spool means its the winch motor pulls the cable
there is a lever on the winch that needs to be operated for this, if its under the rig in say a bog hole, you are going to have a shit of a time using the winch,
your better off mounting it on the front and not trying to get to clever unless you want to punch holes in the floor pan.

Also if your fairlead is facing down with the cable going out the bottom, what happens if you bottom out on a rock, your going to root your cable.
i dont think the rollers on a fairlead are designed to take the full load of a pull constantly either, they will wear very quickly.

I you're dead set on being able to winch both ways, why not get that cradle mount winch that goes into a tow bar sleeve. then you only hook it up when you need it and you can put it front or back. I think they are advertised somewhere in most mags each month. If you can't find it, let me know and I'll have a flick through and scan one for you.

Personally, I'm going to wait until I've had to winch out by hand enough times that I'm completely over it before I outlay the cash for a winch. Plenty of other mods to spend my hard earned cash on first.

Just make sure everyone else on each trip has a winch, then they can pull u out from either side!!!

This what you are talking about mcdave ?

Yeah, that sort of thing, some use straps and some will fit a towbar mount (or maybe they all do both?)

in my opinion, the best way to go both ways (winching that is)

Also how do you go about "respooling" the cable if it gets all bundled up to one side.. how do you ensure that it will "wind onto the drum evenly"

Mount it up front ..with the money saved on buying all the steel, welding roads etc and buy a second hand tirfor to pull you out backwards if and when needed ..

Shorty40 wrote:Question:

If you are stuck in a boghole and your only way out is backwards. Who swims under the vehicle to re-route the cable ????????

you can set it up so that there is a hook on either end of the vehicle at all times, no need for swimming under the car or anything....

very simple in theory!

that was already discussed BJ, but he decided that was 2 hard

bj on roids wrote:

Shorty40 wrote:Question:

If you are stuck in a boghole and your only way out is backwards. Who swims under the vehicle to re-route the cable ????????

you can set it up so that there is a hook on either end of the vehicle at all times, no need for swimming under the car or anything....

very simple in theory!

i agree, theory simple. one winch, can go both ways and don't need to respool. only problem is lever that changes free/spool, and making sure spools on evenly. btw, getting it to spool evenly when winch on front is bloody hard, don't know it would be any worse when winch underneath

Meldge wrote:If i have it front mount i would probably get plasma wire, but i would have thought that steel cable would last better on cable guides than plasma???


Meldge

I was going to use use a mid mounted setup and took some time to look at the options. I believe that the plasma option would have been the best if you could rout your rope with rollers instead of static eyes. Wire rope would probably damage rollers. The other consideration for me was that the only place to run the cable was next to the exhaust which meant that I couldn't use plasma. In the end I just cut up my front bar and mounted the winch there