Outer Limits 4x4 Board

i am thinking of putting a bigger intercooler into my jeep

and am thinking either top mount with custom bonnet

or

remove grill and fit a big front mount there, much like Ferog's 80

just wondering if there is a difference performance wise, pros and cons of both ??

cheers
Moses

Top mount will get heat soak from the engine, but give less lag in general terms due to less piping.
A front mount will give more efficient cooling, however some pressure can be lost in the piping used. If you size the cooler correctly, it shouldn't be noticable however.

I have a front mount, and it works well. With the amount of heat that my engine puts out, I wouldn't want an intercooler (interwarmer ) on top of it.

sounds like the frint mount it is then as i have enough issues keeping
the motor cool now, and this is only going to get worse when i boost
the turbo to about 21 - 22 psi

i also plan to run mandrel bent SS pipeing to help on the lag side of things

Moses wrote:sounds like the frint mount it is then as i have enough issues keeping
the motor cool now, and this is only going to get worse when i boost
the turbo to about 21 - 22 psi

i also plan to run mandrel bent SS pipeing to help on the lag side of things

22PSI... on what motor? DAMN

HotFourOk wrote:

Moses wrote:sounds like the frint mount it is then as i have enough issues keeping
the motor cool now, and this is only going to get worse when i boost
the turbo to about 21 - 22 psi

i also plan to run mandrel bent SS pipeing to help on the lag side of things

22PSI... on what motor? DAMN

Only good to you if you can supply fuel to suit...

Bazzle

I'd go for a front mount. Easier to setup, no ducting/sealing required for airflow, no huge amounts of heat from the motor (as per. top-mount), front mounts are CHEAP too. The only down side is the possibility of catching rocks/roost etc and putting a hole in the cooler. Also, they dont like getting choked up full of mud.

Coxy

it is for a Jeep Cherokee 2.5ltr Turbo Diesel

these came out of the factory with the turbo already running @ 16psi

a few people have had them up to 21 - 22 psi but they run a bit hot
hence i want to try and do something to keep it cool

Make sure you get an EGT gauge.

intercooled 2.5s ran a front mount intercooler, you may be able to pick one up with the mounting gear of a wreck, or at least the piping if the int is crushed, inlet and outlet were the same side on factory units

Tiny wrote:intercooled 2.5s ran a front mount intercooler, you may be able to pick one up with the mounting gear of a wreck, or at least the piping if the int is crushed, inlet and outlet were the same side on factory units

yeah this already has a front mount but it is a piss ant little unit and i need/want
something a little bigger, also the unit that is on them is mounted under the
radiator and is not all that effective

this is why i am looking at a set up much like Ferog's

Moses wrote:

Tiny wrote:intercooled 2.5s ran a front mount intercooler, you may be able to pick one up with the mounting gear of a wreck, or at least the piping if the int is crushed, inlet and outlet were the same side on factory units

yeah this already has a front mount but it is a piss ant little unit and i need/want
something a little bigger, also the unit that is on them is mounted under the
radiator and is not all that effective

this is why i am looking at a set up much like Ferog's

kk, then cut the grille out a bit like Ems and thow a big cheap unit of one of those ricer supplies mobs

The local diesel guru said to me "Get the air into the motor as best you can, and get the exhaust gases out of it as best you can. And always make sure your air filters are nice and clean." He also said that an EGT guage would be a smart investment.

coxy321 wrote:The local diesel guru said to me "Get the air into the motor as best you can, and get the exhaust gases out of it as best you can. And always make sure your air filters are nice and clean." He also said that an EGT guage would be a smart investment.

the air gets in quite well through the snorkel, and getting out will be fine
with the custom 3" exhaust getting fitted soon, so the plan is to fit a big
ass cheap ricer unit

bt what is this 'EGT' that a few of you have mentioned ??

EGT is Exhaust Gas Temperature the gauge aka pyrometer. Excessive heat can cause failure in turbo-diesels engines, in particular the turbo. You can pick a kit up for average of $260 not cheap but a good safeguard. I am yet to get one on mine, it' also super important if your towing alot and it enables you to safely determine what boost you can run without cooking it. Maybe the exhaust tech guy will be able to answer this better?

Raising your boost lowers your exhaust temp. Pumping more fuel into the engine raises your exhaust temps.

If you've wound up the fuel on your engine then an EGT gauge is a must, otherwise any drop in boost could cause your pistons to melt.

If you get a choice on where to mount the EGT probe, make sure you put it before the turbo. After the turbo requires guessing what the temp drop across the turbo is and adding that to the measurements.

As said above, the EGT guage measures the exhaust temp coming out of the motor. With diesels, you can add boost to get more power, but you also have to supply adequate fuel to compensate for the boost. Again, as said above, not running enough fuel will cook your motor or turbo, but on the same note with diesels if you add too much fuel, the motor will run hot, and so will the turbo. This inturn will lead to bearing failure in the turbo, and i often hear of "holed" pistons, melted pistons etc. from the excessive heat. Besides, if your running too much fuel the whole system wont be working at its proper operating temp, therefore not delivering proper power or torque. And need i mention the problem with unnessicarily burning excess diesel $$$$$$$$$$$ !!!!!!

Most guys put these in so they can basically drive their car/truck spiritedly, and then know exactly when to back off before there's any chance of engine damage. It also handy for towing, or even when your just tripping down the freeway and want to sit at a nice steady temp.
I used to use the boost guage to set my cruising speed.

Coxy

coxy321 wrote:As said above, the EGT guage measures the exhaust temp coming out of the motor. With diesels, you can add boost to get more power, but you also have to supply adequate fuel to compensate for the boost. Again, as said above, not running enough fuel will cook your motor or turbo,

Sorry mate but that is all wrong.

Diesels run lean all the time. They do not and can not run hot with not enough fuel.

You do not need to increase fuel with increased boost or intercooling. But you can if you want to increase power further.


Petrols use excess fuel to control EGT's, but this does not apply at all to diesels.

well said,

Once 3in pipe is fitted, id fit a smaller sized front mount, You wont notice lag much if you size it correctly, also if heat is a factor, i have used power alloy radiatiors with much success in the past. Has dropped temps in excess of 20 degrees easily.

Cheers Mark

Sorry mate - my bad. Less fuel= less power. I was away with the pixies mate, thinking about 2-stroke nitro R/C motors. Also, i've run 3" exhausts on both of the TD patrols i had, they seemed to run smoother, spool up quicker, rev harder/easier, and sound good too.

Coxy

The stock turbo might run 16psi from factory... but it might be at the end of its efficiency range.
Mine runs 12psi stock, and it can easily be boosted to 20psi with stock turbo... although at this boost, the extra heat generated by the turbo outweighs the extra power gained from more boost.
Just check if your stock turbo is okay at these higher levels.
if not, that's when a dual ball bearing Garrett comes into play Disco Potato FTW!

HotFourOk wrote:The stock turbo might run 16psi from factory... but it might be at the end of its efficiency range.
Mine runs 12psi stock, and it can easily be boosted to 20psi with stock turbo... although at this boost, the extra heat generated by the turbo outweighs the extra power gained from more boost.
Just check if your stock turbo is okay at these higher levels.
if not, that's when a dual ball bearing Garrett comes into play Disco Potato FTW!

have already thought of that

I dont know much about turbos, but why not fit a aircon unit in a box between the turbo and intake. shorly this will cool down better than air to air intercooler. Should be able to control temp as well.
My 2 cents

Ford in the USA came out with a system a couple of years ago on one of their pickup type trucks where they used a water to air intercooler but they also had an extra remote reservoir of water that was super cooled by the air con system.
This extra reservoir was hooked up to a pressure sensor that would only release the really cold water when a certain boost pressure was reached (full throttle presumably). The air con system was also turned off at this predetermined boost pressure. As these vehicles use climate control systems where the air con runs all the time when you get off the throttle and just drive around normally the air con is now cooling the water that has just gone through the intercooler ready for another burst of high boost.
I'm sure some of the clever "fridgies" we have here could come up with a similar solution.
Regards Andrew.

petah from oz wrote:I dont know much about turbos, but why not fit a aircon unit in a box between the turbo and intake. shorly this will cool down better than air to air intercooler. Should be able to control temp as well.
My 2 cents

The extra load on the engine would negate the gain.

awill4x4 wrote:Ford in the USA came out with a system a couple of years ago on one of their pickup type trucks where they used a water to air intercooler but they also had an extra remote reservoir of water that was super cooled by the air con system.
This extra reservoir was hooked up to a pressure sensor that would only release the really cold water when a certain boost pressure was reached (full throttle presumably). The air con system was also turned off at this predetermined boost pressure. As these vehicles use climate control systems where the air con runs all the time when you get off the throttle and just drive around normally the air con is now cooling the water that has just gone through the intercooler ready for another burst of high boost.
I'm sure some of the clever "fridgies" we have here could come up with a similar solution.
Regards Andrew.

That'd be on a "performance" supercharged pickup wouldn't it? Lightning?

It'd certainly help response, but efficiency would take a hit.

The extra load on the engine would negate the gain.

Not necessarily.......think of a supercharger, takes a far bit of power to run but gives a lot more back.

Jimbo wrote:

The extra load on the engine would negate the gain.

Not necessarily.......think of a supercharger, takes a far bit of power to run but gives a lot more back.

Think of an air/air intercooler which has a negligable power consumption (only a little air drag) and provides close to the same result.

I was thinking of a small aircon compressor off a 1.3lt or similar, i have driven a new small car and not noticed the aircon kicking in, so the lose in power should be very small compared to the gain.

I have thought of this (similar) a while back but thought that if it worked some1 would have done it by now and everyone would know.