Outer Limits 4x4 Board

On the weekend a mate and I began on Saturday at 2:30 - 6:00pm putting my 5 inch lift in to the stock Maverick SWB.

We got the front end done and called it a day. Sunday morning started again at 10:00am - 4:00pm doing the rear, all things going reasonbly well until we took it for a test drive, no at this stage I haven't put the castor plates in. On there way - next weekend maybe - but the real problem which I expected was the vibration from the tail shaft, but I never thought it would be this bad!!?? Can't even get over 40kmh! Scary is one word that jumps to mind..... I didn't rotate the tail shaft as it looks the same diameter as the opposite end. Put Transmission spacers in and adjustable trailing arms, I measure the wheelbase before we started and it was 95" - now its about 91.5".

Do I need to adjust the trailing arms (Snake Racing) to get it back to 95"??

Any help would be greatly appriciated, cos I want to drive it - now it just looks good in my driveway!!

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q297 ... CT0182.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q297 ... 1807-1.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q297 ... GP2822.jpg

Why oh why did you put a 5 inch lift into a shorty. 3 inch max!

Need to lengthen your lower trailing arms so the rear uni is running the same angle as the transfer case end.

well I hope youve sorted everything else out, like the drive shaft that may contact crosmembers, vibes and more likely death wobble's take her for a spin up 110 and see if she gets vibes

You can achieve the same by lengthening your upper arms if they are adjustable. It is a matter of trial and error but most people shorten the uppers and this makes it worse.

Regards

MD

Mate you need a double cardin tail shaft as well as lengthening your trailing arms.
I get tailshaft vibration when I back off the juice witha 3" lift nothing that effects driving though

man you opened a whole can of worms going 5inch
double cardan tailshaft on the rear and lengthen the top arms to get the pinion angle better. Extending the bottom to get the wheelbase back will mean you will have rubbing on the back of your guards under flex

You want the angle at the pinnion to match the angle at the box. you do not want the angle from the pinnion to be straight or point upwards of the box

best way to do this is to lengthen lower arms (especially on a shorty where every mm of tail shaft length you can get = less chance of vibrations), this may cause issues with gaurd clearance at the back of the arch tho so alot of people opt for the easier option of shortening the uppers wich can also reduce rear end flex and tail shaft length.

the rotating the tail shaft 180 degrees is so that it clears the crossmember behind the box, wich i think from memory on a shorty is alot further back and isnt an issue

looks like a giant rollerskate in the 3rd pic

badger wrote:You want the angle at the pinnion to match the angle at the box. you do not want the angle from the pinnion to be straight or point upwards of the box

best way to do this is to lengthen lower arms (especially on a shorty where every mm of tail shaft length you can get = less chance of vibrations), this may cause issues with gaurd clearance at the back of the arch tho so alot of people opt for the easier option of shortening the uppers wich can also reduce rear end flex and tail shaft length.

the rotating the tail shaft 180 degrees is so that it clears the crossmember behind the box, which i think from memory on a shorty is alot further back and isnt an issue

On a shorty the crossmember behind the transfer is above the tailshaft so no issues of clearance.

If you fit a double carden joint to the end at the transfer case you will need to rotate the diff so the uni at the pinion end is straight. If you leave normal uni joints both need to run at the same angle.

Double carden is the expensive option but will fix all your problems, but some people manage a 5" lift by getting their uni angles right. Adjust the lower control arms first and see how it goes before worrying about double carden joints.

blkmav wrote:Why oh why did you put a 5 inch lift into a shorty. 3 inch max!

agree.. sell the 5inch and go with a 3inch, adn if you must a 2inch body.

Wow - thanks for all the info guys, I went 5" instead of 3" suspension and 2" BL because I wanted to stay away from body lifts as they are famous for body cracks. Chops: It looks like a roller skate as it still has the standard 31" rubber under it, I plan on putting some 33" MT MTZ later once I've solved the rear vibrations. So I need to lengthen the lower adjustable trailing arms and shorten the top one as I got Snake Racing upper & Lower adjustables.....

Does anyone else run a 5" lift on a shorty? That could give me some dimensions of centre to centres of the trailing arms. I want to fine tune it before I go down the path of double cardin joints...

Any diagrams about the angle of the pinion and driveshaft...?

Thanks again!

Braaap wrote:I plan on putting some 33" MT MTZ later once I've solved the rear vibrations.

having run similar setup, it will still look that way with 33's.

body mount cracks usually occur when mounts are loose or floggd out. New rubbers, and torqued up fine, no problems.

I'm running EFS coils in my shorty, 4" rear, 5" front, and it sits level.
No real issues with mine yet, and I'm going 2" body lift next week.
I'm running my lower trailing arms 18mm longer than factory, but not sure what length you should adjust yours to, as you can adjust the top too.
Just try 10mm top and bottom I suppose to start off with (shortening the top I take it?)

Braaap wrote: I want to fine tune it before I go down the path of double cardin joints...

Any diagrams about the angle of the pinion and driveshaft...?

ok breath out now breath in and say it with me
I am going to need a double cardin tailshaft.

Hvae you trial flexed it up to see the drive shaft contacts with anything?

when you put bigger tyres on it it will get worse, there is no point fine tuning now because with 33's or 35's it will change and the wheelbase will shrink.

Braaap wrote:Does anyone else run a 5" lift on a shorty? That could give me some dimensions of centre to centres of the trailing arms. I want to fine tune it before I go down the path of double cardin joints...

When I bought my lower arms from cheesy he told me that for lifts of 4" plus he sells them 16mm longer than standard,
maybe try this then play with your uppers till no more noise

Thanks Stu'sBeast and wrxsux,
I took a photo last night of the driveshaft angle and talked to Rick at BBM, he said I can dial it out by adjusting the upper trailing arms back in as I have them adjusted out to fit. Plus when I fitted them I had the hand brake on which I believe would stop the diff rotating due to the handbrake being on the tail shaft which is connected to the diff.... I think

Rick said a rule of thumb is to get the flanges on the pinion and the flange on the case parallel, which mine clearly aren't. So hopefully I can fix this by adjusting the trailing arms.

No wonder they get noisy... I never knew the angle was that big!

Kiwi wrote:I'm running EFS coils in my shorty, 4" rear, 5" front, and it sits level.
No real issues with mine yet, and I'm going 2" body lift next week.

DAMN.... that's going to be a big shorty

You cant adjust that out far to much angle it will need a double carden fitted to the transfer case end and leave the pinion angle about were it is

Yeah you have to get the gearbox output and the diff input parallel if you want to run unis like that, or go for the broken back arrangement (which is actually almost feasible with the angles you've got). Parallel or equal angles is not just a rule of thumb, it's the very essence of how universal joints work.

Not wanting to sound like a dickhead, but I can't fathom why you are going for 5" of lift to fit 33s, when 2" will almost do it and 3" certainly will.

Any extra lift above what you need to fit your tyres is a waste of time and money.

chimpboy wrote:Yeah you have to get the gearbox output and the diff input parallel if you want to run unis like that, or go for the broken back arrangement (which is actually almost feasible with the angles you've got). Parallel or equal angles is not just a rule of thumb, it's the very essence of how universal joints work.

Not wanting to sound like a dickhead, but I can't fathom why you are going for 5" of lift to fit 33s, when 2" will almost do it and 3" certainly will.

Any extra lift above what you need to fit your tyres is a waste of time and money.

WOW


I'm going 2" king springs and if needed later 2" body lift and i'm going to run 33" MT MTZ's i hope they don't rub to much with just a 2" sus but i have heard alot of people say about 2 millions times (no joke) anything over 2" sus maybe u could get away with 3" sus not sure you have to change a alot of things with SWB.

Also why don't you like seeing you car the right way up when ur wheeling becuase with 5" sus u might see upside a few times

Cheers

Rick...

Good luck mate i would fit 35's or 37's if i had that lift make use of it 33's will look a little silly IMO

you need to put a double cardy sharft in. i make them for $800. you will never fix this by adjusting the arms and making flanges parrall it will make it worse.

You've got the adjustable arms so what have you got to lose by adjusting the angles first. If it still has vibrations you can look at a double carden then. I run a double carden but my lower trailing arms are still longer than standard, as Stu'sBeast has suggested start by extending the lowers 16mm to get your diff centred in the arch. Snake arms have a fair amount of adjustment in them so once you've extended your lowers, shorten your uppers as Rick said to get the uni angles the same and post how it goes.

I would also go at least a 35 inch tyre with a 5 inch lift as the 33s will look too small.

Nelso wrote:You've got the adjustable arms so what have you got to lose by adjusting the angles first. If it still has vibrations you can look at a double carden then. I run a double carden but my lower trailing arms are still longer than standard, as Stu'sBeast has suggested start by extending the lowers 16mm to get your diff centred in the arch. Snake arms have a fair amount of adjustment in them so once you've extended your lowers, shorten your uppers as Rick said to get the uni angles the same and post how it goes.

I would also go at least a 35 inch tyre with a 5 inch lift as the 33s will look too small.

I will try adjusting the arms as you said and see how I go, I just don't have any spare time atm so it'll be a while before I get chance to play with it again... I wanted to run 35" tires but my SWB is an auto so I was worried that the gearbox and 3.9 diff ratios would suffer...But next year or later this year I'm going to convert the TB42 to straight gas and add a supercharger so they'll push the tires along better.....

regear from 3.9 to 4.1 heaps of em around

wrksux wrote:regear from 3.9 to 4.1 heaps of em around

I can't afford them never mind the installing of them.....It won't matter once I supercharge it anyway....I'm concentrating on the driveshaft at the moment - one problem at a time as I'm doing this on a shoe string budget! I just got a quote of a $1000 for the double cardin drive shaft

wrksux wrote:when you put bigger tyres on it it will get worse, there is no point fine tuning now because with 33's or 35's it will change and the wheelbase will shrink.

Can someone explain how putting bigger tyres on a vehicle shortens the wheelbase? I understand how this happens if you change the suspension geometry (ie lift the vehicle) but i cant see how this would happen if you simply bolt on bigger tyres which do not change the geometry of the suspension?

Im not sure how it works, but i believe its todo with trailing arms and the size of the tyre and where it is located within the well. sorry thats my vauge description

because your wheel base is measured from the actual contact point of the tyre wich is beleve is at a set deg to the control arm/ radius arm

to work it out in your head assume it is 90 degrees, draw a line from centre of tyre towards centre of the car at 90 degrees to the arm, if the tyre is bigger this line is longer and there fore the contact points further towards the centre

so when you have a bigger tyre the contact point is closer to the centre of the car

hope my way of explaining it makes sence cos its hard to write on paper, or mab thats the scotch

Braaap wrote:

wrksux wrote:regear from 3.9 to 4.1 heaps of em around

I can't afford them never mind the installing of them.....It won't matter once I supercharge it anyway....I'm concentrating on the driveshaft at the moment - one problem at a time as I'm doing this on a shoe string budget! I just got a quote of a $1000 for the double cardin drive shaft

i can fit one into your shaft for $500