Outer Limits 4x4 Board

this looks like a great mod for diesels
http://www.dieselgasaustralia.com.au/de ... D=Vehicles

it works well if:

(a) you have a DIRECT injected, TURBO diesel AND
(b) you want more POWER, and fuel cost doesn't really matter to you


it is a waste of money if you have an indirect injected engine, whether it is turbocharged or not. it is a waste of time and money if you are attempting to increase your fuel efficiency - yes you will use less diesel fuel but the cost of the LPG required to do that pretty much cancels out the gain. in other words, dollars per km remains about the same.

If you are a spammer trying to advertise here, go away. If you are making a genuine enquiry about the suitability of a product for your vehicle, please search, there is already a lot of information about LPG/propane fumigation of diesel engines available on outerlimits, have a search and you might find some people with first hand experience with it.

cheers

DD

20% increase in power and economy!

We have been working with the owners and for those in the know an increase of 50% in power is possible for the comp guys who want to dial up both the diesel and gas.

It reduces emissions...and BONUS...you are eligible for the $2K government rebate...so go do it!

got it done but it puts up your egts buy about 100 degrees

been looking into it myself, kinda worried it could kill a good engine. anything else to watch out for with it?????

michael a wrote:got it done but it puts up your egts buy about 100 degrees

Cant imagine a diesel lasting long if it effects it like that - turbo seems a better option if you dont already have one

michael a wrote:got it done but it puts up your egts buy about 100 degrees

power/economy ?

Heaps more power, as for economy could not really say i think a bit better but when you aadd gas on to your bill it works out abut same.

On highway can turn gas on and feel the car pull harder and pick up more speed.

max no lpg with 35s and standard gears is about 130 with lpg on I stopped at 155 cause it gets a bit kooky with a 7 in lift.

I would get it done if you have a turbo already but if no turbo get that first.

It brings boost on (max) about 400-500 rpm sooner.

Father in law had it fitted to his turboed 80 a while ago. Increased power by 35 HP at rear wheels and dropped his total fuel costs marginally. He tows a caravan so he's wrapped with the results but it did cost him $1800 out of pocket.

michael a wrote:Heaps more power, as for economy could not really say i think a bit better but when you aadd gas on to your bill it works out abut same.

On highway can turn gas on and feel the car pull harder and pick up more speed.

max no lpg with 35s and standard gears is about 130 with lpg on I stopped at 155 cause it gets a bit kooky with a 7 in lift.

I would get it done if you have a turbo already but if no turbo get that first.

It brings boost on (max) about 400-500 rpm sooner.

what sort of engine you get it in mate??? and how many kms did the engine have_ also for everyone- why do ppl say it is pointless unless you have a direct inject diesel? is this true or it does help any diesel quiet a bit!

cheers

Are these people playing with LPG using EGT gauges?

Great way to cook your engine if you're not. Not only is LPG fumigation adding more fuel, it's displacing oxygen.

its in a td42.

I dont see the difference between in direct and in direct. I mean I know what it means but why would it not work as well?

Same shit at the end of the day only help combustion on badly designed deisels.

It works with all diesel engines, did a lot of research into this in the 90's for Indonesia. Works better with CNG as the octane rating is higher so substitution rates of CNG can be much higher than LPG as pre ignition (compression ignition) will occur earlier with LPG. Substitution rates vary, power and economy go up with greater rates of LPG untill preignition occurs and you buy new pistons that come without big holes(yes we tested this on a 6L Merc Turbo Bus engine, power went from 300 to 550 hp before this occured on an engine dyno). It lowers some emmisions but due to higher combustion temps and resultant higher exhaust temps the Oxides of nitrogens emmisions increase, but generally still less than that of a Petrol/LPG engine.
Pitfalls are if the mixer/converter fail in some way to increase the substitution rate beyond safe limits it will go bang. You need to get the engine to operating temperature before using it. High intake air temps increase the likely hood of pre ignition so use an intercooler if trying it on a turbo. And be especially conservative in hot climates.
Personally I'd rather a turbo but I can see the appeal.

Ive seen they mix it in before the turbo, what if you have an intercooler. Will all the gas build up before the intercooler, like people say on straight gas systems. I know the diesel wont back fire like a petrol would but it still wouldnt be good?

I would never put LPG through the turbo or intercooler, might as well strap a bomb to the front of the car. You can blow through a Gasresearch Carby or impco mixer provided you connect the atmospheric vent on the converter to boost pressure, my previous vehicle was a turbo straight gas GQ shorty 4.2 intercooled. I don't know enough about the specific system you are looking at but all regulator/converters have an atmospheric reference port that you should be able to connect a boost reference to, then set up as normal.

Joel

PGS 4WD wrote:Substitution rates vary, power and economy go up with greater rates of LPG untill preignition occurs and you buy new pistons that come without big holes(yes we tested this on a 6L Merc Turbo Bus engine, power went from 300 to 550 hp before this occured on an engine dyno).

Do you know what exhaust temps it took to do that?

just a little observasion..... why would big diesel repair maintence companies be selling these lpg kits for diesels if they weren't safe ...
its been run in the minning heavy construction industry for years. why all off a sudden are people worried about it, as most people won't be pulling that sort of power every day out of their diesel...

please any on rectify my comments if wrong

simon

It is safe provided nothing goes wrong and no-one decides some is good more is better and turns up the lpg, my experience is that many customers turn up the power wherever they can, I don't fit boost adjusters to petrol vehicles that customrs can easily adjust for the same reason. The potential for harm is greater as generally people who wind the boost up in diesel don't add the fuel so exhaust temps tend to drop and also without additional fuel the turbo on a diesel often wont spool any harder as it needs the increased heat and exhaust density to make more boost.

I'm not saying it dosent work just that if not done right it can lead to expensive damage.

This was some time ago that we were doing the R@D on these, if my memory is correct we saw 850 degrees C before pop.

PGS 4WD wrote: This was some time ago that we were doing the R@D on these, if my memory is correct we saw 850 degrees C before pop.

Thanks for that. It lends credability to the 750C sane limit that gets thrown about a lot on the net.

If I was to do it and was looking for power I'd ceramic coat the piston crowns to keep the piston temp down, couldn't hurt to do the cylinder head comp chamber either.
Joel