Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hey Guys,

JUst got a Mav, and after being bombarded with info on this forum for engine swaps, i just dont know what to do. Would like a ford motor, preferably a six from eb-ed falcon. Waiting to hear from Dellow on adaptor to my auto.
Is the 4.2L engine a guzzler, because my seems to be chewing the fuel like no tomorrow ( bit over 1/4 of a tank to windsor and back from kellyville) Has anybody swapped the std carb for a holley? I believe my vehicle has a long range tank fitted, and will find out on weekend how many litres
Fabricating some pipes for any engine is not going to be a worry, just seems a 6 is alot less hassle. I could do up the original engine, but it will still be a pushrod motor, and i think an overhead cam EFI motor would be a bit more economical.
Your thoughts or experiences are welcome.

Cheers

Daz

Personally If your goint to spend the money go the V8.

Yes it will use more fuel if you push it but if its geared right you should be able to get similar fuel economy to the 6.

Just my thoughts

Nick

If you want economy, get LPG installed
If you want power, put a V8 in!!!

You would wanna love the 6 cyl with a passion to warrant putting one in. spending all that money for not that much gain would be pointless. no comparison to cubic inches. the TB 42 are designed for tourqe. the amount of head gaskets the ea-au motors do would cost more than a 383 stroker in due time.. id go a v8..

351ciofgrunt wrote:If you want economy, get LPG installed
If you want power, put a V8 in!!!

I wouldn't mind a bit of both. Car goes pretty good as it is, and according to the info' on marks4wd, the ford motor has more torque than the tb42 anyway. To top it off i could hot up the motor for more power anyway. It is true there is no substitute for cubes, so i will have to have a good think.
I think a good engine build will hold off any problems with blown head gaskets. I had an ea ghia wagon, that blew head gasket just before i traded it and it had 270,000 kays roughly. Thats a lot of driving.
What about the holley swap?

Cheers

Daz

what you got to look at is at what revs the torque is at i think you will find out the torque in the falcon will be high up in the rev range and the TB42 down low as to thats what you need in a 4wd so you dont have to scream it's guts out to go anywere.
my advice would be if you want to do a engine conversion go for a holden/chev v8 or gas it

Geez, I really like those ford sixes but the EB-ED falcon six cyl is really not worth swapping in to replace a TB42.

Without checking, I don't think procompman is right about torque - they should both be pretty torquey across the rev range. But even so you'll gain next to nothing in economy or performance with that swap, and you might even lose some grunt overall.

An EF-on six cyl might be a bit more worthwhile.

For example an ED six will get you 148kW at 4500rpm/348Nm at 3750rpm, but the EF gets you 157kW at 4900rpm/357Nm at 3000rpm (which is much better torque.) This is due to some different internals as well as a better ECU.

But anyway, I still don't think the ford six is good enough to be worthwhile, you've got to go for a big V8 to make the swap worth the time and effort.

I am in the process of moving house and have borrowed a very large trailer that weighs a tonne and with the furniture it is a fair load. For all swearing I hurl at it for being a carbon extruder...the torque of the motor is very good and the car does not seem to struggle.

93 Mav carby LPG.


but for the rest of time I wish it were turbo'd and SGI'd... or V8 wish wish dream dream...

what i mean chimpboy is the TB42 gets its max torque at 323nm@2800rpm
the ed falcon is 348nm@3750rpm
ef falcon is 357nm@3000rpm
so you dont need to rev the TB42 as hard for your torque to be there.
i remember years ago when i used to drive tractors the case tractor was able to be brought right down in the rev range and still be able to pull the set of disc try doing that in the john deer and it would stall it didnt have the low down torque power. I think you would find this between the TB42 and the falcon engine

Just on ya petrol consumption...an old worn TB42 will use around 20-25l/100km....more if towing or pushed hard...mine got up to 33l/100k towing ...(admittedly up a mountain though). Standard tank holds 95Litres (hardtop and wagon).

oldbugger wrote:Just on ya petrol consumption...an old worn TB42 will use around 20-25l/100km....more if towing or pushed hard...mine got up to 33l/100k towing ...(admittedly up a mountain though). Standard tank holds 95Litres (hardtop and wagon).

I filled it up from about 1/8th of a tank, and i stopped at 100 bucks(77litres) and guage went to full line so must be very close to 80 or so litres. Rear of tank has a sticker from a manufacturer, so definately not the std one. Maybe my gauge is dicky. Getting auto serviced tomorrow and the flat spot sorted out. From the manual, excessive fuel consumption is due to a few reasons, mainly from wrongly adjusted carby.
Looking at maybe putting holley on, but not sure if i can get the tps for the auto to function correctly. Holley throttle arm is opposite side, and not sure if it is possible to swap to same side as std carb.
Liked the thread on the guy who used the ford efi system and adapted it to original motor, very clever. Guess the chev might be the go, or a ford V8.

Cheers

Daz

procompman wrote:what i mean chimpboy is the TB42 gets its max torque at 323nm@2800rpm
the ed falcon is 348nm@3750rpm
ef falcon is 357nm@3000rpm
so you dont need to rev the TB42 as hard for your torque to be there.
i remember years ago when i used to drive tractors the case tractor was able to be brought right down in the rev range and still be able to pull the set of disc try doing that in the john deer and it would stall it didnt have the low down torque power. I think you would find this between the TB42 and the falcon engine

Fair enough... I can't say for sure, it's just that having driven a few of these falcons they do seem to have a nice flat torque curve and plenty low down, which makes sense in an engine that is a straight six like a TB42 and is actually more oversquare ie longer stroke vs bore than a TB42. You can't see it in the peak torque numbers but imho it's unlikely that the EF motor makes less than 323Nm @ 2800 if it is making 357Nm @ 3000, hence it puts out like a TB42 up to 2800rpm then keeps on giving more when the TB42 has run out of steam.

My gut feeling is that the EF motor is better than the TB42 in every way, just not *enough* better to justify the cost of a swap. But if someone offered me a free swap to an EF motor in my Mav I would take it for sure.

But I can't find any torque graphs for either motor so I can't say for sure and I definitely could be wrong!

The EF is definitely a lot better than the EA performance wise, I got a really nice surprise driving a clapped out ex-taxi EF when I was used to an EA. Waaaay better right from idle up to redline.

Dazzle wrote:

oldbugger wrote:Just on ya petrol consumption...an old worn TB42 will use around 20-25l/100km....more if towing or pushed hard...mine got up to 33l/100k towing ...(admittedly up a mountain though). Standard tank holds 95Litres (hardtop and wagon).

I filled it up from about 1/8th of a tank, and i stopped at 100 bucks(77litres) and guage went to full line so must be very close to 80 or so litres. Rear of tank has a sticker from a manufacturer, so definately not the std one. Maybe my gauge is dicky.

You can't trust the gauge AT ALL, especially if you have an aftermarket fuel tank.

Hey guys,

I believe there is enough potential in the ford engine to justify a swap. Did a search for "performance parts for TB42".....nothing of any use. Ford engine has plenty of go fast bits, especially the CAPA flash tuner for use with a supercharger or turbo.
Found a complete '98 EL falcon motor (140,000kms), ECU, loom, power steering pump and brackets for alt. and p/s for $990 bucks.
So for roughly the cost of a clapped out V8 which would need rebuilding, i get a good motor, change auto bellhousing from dellow for $495, bit of electrical work for EFI,which i am sure i can do, fuel pump, extractors, and we're away.
Money wise worth while IMHO, and can hot up later on. I get a late model motor that is as good as the original, if not better and no hassles for engineering cerification.
FYI, found BA XR6 Turbo motor for $7500, for that i would just trade in on turbo Ghia Territory.

Cheers

Daz

My fuel gauge doesn't work at all...I keep filling up when I get around 250km on the trip meter...thats about 50 litres......

chimpboy is right anyway...dont trust the gauge....if you took 77litres on a eighth tank take thats about a standard tank of 95 litres......or close enough to it.....

have you had the car serviced and tuned at all?

>FYI, found BA XR6 Turbo motor for $7500, for that i would just trade in on turbo Ghia Territory.

If you can find Turbo Ghias for the total of the engine $7500 + 7500 for a mav, you should do it anyway.

351ciofgrunt wrote:If you want economy, get LPG installed
If you want power, put a V8 in!!!

Has anyone used a ford V8 in their conversion. Looking into a 302 windsor, have to check availability of bellhousing. Does anyone know off-hand whether clevelands and windsors have same bellhousing bolt pattern?

Cheers

Daz

Dazzle wrote:

351ciofgrunt wrote:If you want economy, get LPG installed
If you want power, put a V8 in!!!

Has anyone used a ford V8 in their conversion. Looking into a 302 windsor,

Plenty of discussion on this in the past, and a Chev always comes out on top...

Well i'm sticking in a cleveland cause i dont like chev's/holdens

Dellow do the gear for putting in a Ford V8.