Outer Limits 4x4 Board

G'day all im fairly new to the 4wd word and had one as a work supplied car. After leaving my old company I have decided to buy one of my own. I was looking at a hilux surf over a 4runner due to the amount of extras the come with as imported vechicals.
My main question is, is this a good 4x4 value for money wise and with the diesel motors what is the best choice for hp (because I know there are about 3 or 4 types) and wont cause pain to the back pocket! Any imput would be great.

Cheers Cody.

http://www.toyotasurf.asn.au/forum/

Nev

Be VERY careful if you want to buy a SURF because the 2-LT e motors in them suffer badly from detonation.
I have dealt with these vehicles for the last 16 years and have lost count of how many engines I've had to preform major surgery on very expensive surgery too.
The cast iron around the valve seats and the tops of the bores gets eroded away to the point where the heads are not repairable and the blocks have to be sleeved.
There are various way's to repair these problems but none are cheap and there not a particularly easy thing to work on because under the bonnet is full to the brim with EGR valves ,vacuum solenoids, vacuum hoses extra relay's and wiring blah blah.
The later models come with a 1KZ engine fitted but as with the 2-LT e these motors are Japanese spec' so your local Toyota spare parts supplier has heaps of trouble supplying parts and on it goes.
I have seen a lot of these vehicles end up in the wrecking yard because the repair bill would be huge.
It's up to you what you buy look around and see what you can find but be careful of the imports because the are many traps for the unwary.
We got one where I work 2 weeks ago good body and interior stuffed motor, bloke gave up he was going to fix it then started to price parts and machining and sold it to us instead for about one tenth of what he payed for it 2 years ago.
Good luck.

goannaoffroad wrote:blah blah.

That about sums up your knowledge of the Surf.

Nev

NiftyNev wrote:

goannaoffroad wrote:blah blah.

That about sums up your knowledge of the Surf.

Nev

OUCH!

NEV

NiftyNev wrote:

goannaoffroad wrote:blah blah.

That about sums up your knowledge of the Surf.

Nev

I agree with Nev.

goannaoffroad wrote:sold it to us instead for about one tenth of what he payed for it 2 years ago.

No luck going to YOU. Sounds like your a "typical licensed mechanic" in Australia. Taking-on jobs your not qualified for. You are obviously not a DENSO authorised diesel mechanic, are you?

I know how easy it is to spin a good story about the repair costs and get away with murder, charging the poor owner heaps to try and learn about a Surf when there is no chance you will learn anything or fix it, except to knock back the next one instead of telling the owners to find a DENSO diesel specialist.

goannaoffroad wrote:Be VERY careful if you want to buy a SURF because the 2-LT e motors in them suffer badly from detonation.
I have dealt with these vehicles for the last 16 years and have lost count of how many engines I've had to preform major surgery on very expensive surgery too.
The cast iron around the valve seats and the tops of the bores gets eroded away to the point where the heads are not repairable and the blocks have to be sleeved.
There are various way's to repair these problems but none are cheap and there not a particularly easy thing to work on because under the bonnet is full to the brim with EGR valves ,vacuum solenoids, vacuum hoses extra relay's and wiring blah blah.
The later models come with a 1KZ engine fitted but as with the 2-LT e these motors are Japanese spec' so your local Toyota spare parts supplier has heaps of trouble supplying parts and on it goes.
I have seen a lot of these vehicles end up in the wrecking yard because the repair bill would be huge.
It's up to you what you buy look around and see what you can find but be careful of the imports because the are many traps for the unwary.
We got one where I work 2 weeks ago good body and interior stuffed motor, bloke gave up he was going to fix it then started to price parts and machining and sold it to us instead for about one tenth of what he payed for it 2 years ago.
Good luck.

i havn't heard of them eroding, unless they have been sucking in water which can happen when they crack heads or blow head gaskets.

the EGR is normall, its no different from the hilux, nissan, mitsi etc. all diesels have it these days.

parts..... NZ is full of surfs and no problem with parts. it only seems to be a problem in anti-imports austrailia, go fiqure. (read 1950's style industry protection).

the biggest problem is the 2lt series vechiles are just old imports. most would have wound back clocks, so basicly they are high milage old vechiles. problems are exspected at that age and miles. price should reflect that.

the later 3 litre turbo ones are better to drive but will also cost more. hilux's come out wit the same motor as well (older hilux did also come out with 2lt in the top model)

just to let u know my opinion...i owned a 2lt surf for a few years. too many old components on them. i would steer clear of them. alot of them have had their odomentres wound back and it is true they are hard to work on.( mostly becuase theres limited room in engine bay.)
not saying all limoprts are bad but my opnion is the 2lt surf is! now own a 80 series diesel landcruiser...should have bought it the first place!

LMFAO

Give it to him surfers

Alright calm down.
Some one on this forum asked a question and I gave an opinion based on experience gained over many years in the trade.
There's no need to cry, these vehicles have there short comings as all vehicles do.
I could have talked about the numerous good points but there's apparently plenty of others only too willing to do that .
The detonation problem is the biggest killer of 2LTe motors and the company I work for has pallets of unserviceable heads and block's that are kept for spare parts which we some times sell to the almighty DENSO AUTHORISED DIESEL MECHANICS.
How we got on to the subject of erosion I don't know very bad for the farmers probably caused by the drought .
Any way cheer up I wasn't picking on any one's Surf just giving an opinion
which is what I thought this forum was all about if I had of realised it was about character assassination I wouldn't have tried to help.
Bye for now I know I'll cop another earful soon.
Reminds me of the time I told the one about old Land Rovers breaking axles.

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

*looks at nev*

goannaoffroad, if you like you can join the Surf forum group and whenever you get a Surf owner coming to you for advice. Just say to them, "I'll get back to you as soon as I ask that question on the Surf forum!" Then you can login and ask a question and probably get a good answer sooner or later and possibly learn something.

http://www.toyotasurf.asn.au/forum It's free to join and saved many people "Thousands!"

Ive seen two case of surfs that had to have the engines in the bin due to errosion of the top of the bore between where the top ring finishes its stroke and the deck. I havent put any thought to this really it may be poor atomization due to worn injector nozzelss. My experience with those vehicles is that they are generally poorly looked after and I would agree they seem very tired for the mileage. They are pretty gutless, buy a 3.0L if you are going to buy one they seem to be better.

The better models had a 5ltr in them

here here

HG wrote:The better models had a 5ltr in them

quiet you

plus 8 doesnt count!

HG wrote:The better models had a 5ltr in them

Can't argue with that.

nice very nice.

Cheers
Dazza

V6HILUX, ok then one day I can be as smart as you?????????

goannaoffroad wrote:...there not a particularly easy thing to work on because under the bonnet is full to the brim with EGR valves ,vacuum solenoids, vacuum hoses extra relay's and wiring blah blah...

...all that new fangled stuff! gees what's the world comin' to...

goannaoffroad wrote:V6HILUX, ok then one day I can be as smart as you?????????

No, one can only aspire to reach such a level of intellect.

Just to clarify:

Detonation - instantaneous ignition of a portion of the fuel/air mixture in the form of an explosion.

Pre-ignition - when the air/fuel mixture in the cylinder gnites before the spark plug fires (obviously only a petrol engine phenomenon).



Go Surfs!

Hi Goanna

If you would like people to be nice to you, try the NISSAN section

you are allowed to give your opion there.

Interesting thread. All engines have their own inherant problems. I'll admit the 2.4 TD seems to have a few more than most generally speaking. Wether this is a design fault or the fact that their original owners in Japan failed to maintain them properly is debatable to some extent. I've had experience with some lemon surfs that were plagued with electrical problems and mechanical ones also. On the other hand I have had experience with some excellent examples that were obviously looked after well and are still proving a pleasure to own.

While Goanna might have ruffled a few surf owner's feathers I read his post to be soley his opinion drawn from his experience. Which is what was asked of him. He stated the issues that he has seen and dealt with and warns the person asking about these vehicles to be cautious. Now I dont suggest that I know everything about surfs but if I was asked my opinion of them I would also warn people of the things that I have had experience with. Like the common cracked cylinder head scenario that has commonly been attributed to the lack of cooling system maintenance by its previous owners.

Feel free to debate the negative points on these vehicles and offer positive ponts about them also. But I dont see the need for "flaming" someone for giving their personal opinion. There are alot of great reasons to buy a surf, post up what they are here.

V6hilux, who are you to attack someone for giving their opinion. Your defaming comments are just an example of your severe lack of tact and scruples. You might know some things about surfs but are you anymore "qualified" to give your opinion than anyone else here? Are you infact a Denso Authorised Diesel Mechanic? Are you a mechanic at all? Your little game of sitting behind your keyboard ridiculing people who have an opinion and trying to pass your own views off as gospel might go down ok on the other site but I dont think many will put up with it here, me for one. If you have something to say, think about how you are going to come across before you say it. You often make some very good points but you just seem to have a talent for coming across like a flogger.

Peace out.

goannaoffroad wrote:The cast iron around the valve seats and the tops of the bores gets eroded away to the point where the heads are not repairable and the blocks have to be sleeved.

The problem is an already cracked head allowing coolant into the bores. This causes the corrosion of the heads and bore not detonation as you say.

goannaoffroad wrote:There are various way's to repair these problems but none are cheap

The only way is replace the head and if possible repair the bore.

goannaoffroad wrote: and there not a particularly easy thing to work on because under the bonnet is full to the brim with EGR valves ,vacuum solenoids, vacuum hoses extra relay's and wiring blah blah.

Not quite. There is only one EGR valve which is easy to fix. Five VSVs which along with the Vacuum hoses is not really complicated once you work out how the system works. They have no more relays and wiring than a lot of other vehicles.

goannaoffroad wrote:The later models come with a 1KZ engine fitted but as with the 2-LT e these motors are Japanese spec' so your local Toyota spare parts supplier has heaps of trouble supplying parts and on it goes.

Rubbish. Parts are easy to get.

goannaoffroad wrote:I have seen a lot of these vehicles end up in the wrecking yard because the repair bill would be huge.

Where are all these Surfs with no body damage and only engine problems. I've yet to see one at a wreckers purely because of engine damage.

goannaoffroad wrote:It's up to you what you buy look around and see what you can find but be careful of the imports because the are many traps for the unwary.

Same applies to any vehicle.

goannaoffroad wrote:We got one where I work 2 weeks ago good body and interior stuffed motor, bloke gave up he was going to fix it then started to price parts and machining and sold it to us instead for about one tenth of what he payed for it 2 years ago.
Good luck.

Perhaps he should have got a second opinion.

Nev

RAY185 wrote:I've had experience with some lemon surfs that were plagued with electrical problems and mechanical ones also.

Electrical and some mechanical problems can be a result of someone not knowing what they are doing making the situation worse. Most ongoing problems are a result of not fixing the original problem properly or causing further damage while attempting to do so.

RAY185 wrote:On the other hand I have had experience with some excellent examples that were obviously looked after well and are still proving a pleasure to own.

Yes there are good ones out there.

In 4 1/2 years I have had three electrical problems that I can remember. One was a blown brake light bulb, another is a faulty wire in door loom for passenger window and the other was an alternator replacement. Alternator was damaged due to me making an expensive mistake. Apart from a few gaskets and a fuel pump rebuild and injector recon (which most diesels needed anyway) the engine has never missed a beat.

Nev

Thereis a very good Toyota Surf at ALL 4WD SPARES in Dandenong Vic at the moment very clean and straight but blown engine there are another 3 Surfs there that are being stripped 2 were in good condition body wise but had the usual engine problems and the other one had a good engine but had the right hand side taken out in an accident.
And by the way the comments I origanaly made were generalisations not specific's if I had of realised I was going to get the third degree I would have been far more specific but the intention of my post was just an over veiw as I have said I'm not picking on any one's vehicle in particular,I'm sure there are lot's of happy Lada Niva owners too.

Thanks for all the feed back has been very interesting all the different views on this 4wd. I actually took a 2.4TD for a spin and to be honest I would really want more power. I am coming from a stroker ford so power is what I know, but in saying that I undersatnd they are two different cars.
I want to test a 3.0L TD and hopefully it will go better, the head issues are making me consider other options too.

if u are wanting power, 3lt is slighlty better, but a 4.2td will give u alot more with better fuel economy! and thats a fact lol. oh and without the headaches!

Seriously who's going to be first to break the drought and cry me a river some people take stuff to heart to seriously it's just an opinon and thats what was asked for but it doesn't hurt to question it also i think alot of them are under maintained due to price of parts being an import and 4wd in one so newer the better.
Keep going now