Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Ok guys im now realising 35s are a thing of the past,
iam wanting to get the tj into a competition buggy without losing to much of the look,

my plans are to enter as many comps as possible i also have a main goal of getting to the Out back challenge in the TJ,

ive been told to not bother with the TJ and to buy a GQ as it will be much cheaper but i love driving the jeep now im not very mechanically minded i knw my jeep inside out almost from fixing and adding things to it, but ill do as much as i can,

i would love to run 39"+ tyres on it
i knw the diffs will be in need of an urgent update
but what else would i have to do guys???

its a 2004 tj am i best to sell up and buy a 1997 tj cheaper or am i betta off sticking to mine with a newer gearbox and all??

thanks guys i dont knw if im dreaming or not?

aj

Upgrade to dana 60's / patrol diffs / whatever to run 39's

Id look at extending the wheel base cause the thing will be a bit unstable on 39's with stock WB, wooders imports GENRIGHT products, ask about the crawler fuel tank, this should allow you shift the rear axle back about 5 inches (4 if you upgrade to dana 60 diffs).

Even still i doubt this would provide a long enough WB anyway.....perhaps you should think of 37's only....the OBC will not allow for 39's...in fact i think their limit is 37's so really thats your best option.

really if you decide on 37's then keep the rear dana 44 and upgrade the front to a dana 44 with chro-mo inners and outers and ctm uni's.....Ask wooders. also get the axle seals that he sells.....trust me on that one.
the whole she-bang can be bought as a unit from the states and basically bolted in.

keep with 4.88 ratios and stroke the motor to 4.7 to get some usable power...like 250+ Hp. Hesco make a kit for this. Its just like a motor rebuild.

Well thats optional really, but its sounds cool

The Cooling system is passable for day to day stuff but id upgrade to an all aluminum radiator (best to import from USA). some TJ's in the past who have competed have had cooling problems.

39's will require a BIG lift, like 5.5 RE kit with 2" body lift unless you want to start cutting the body up.....no, didn't think so. keep with 37's and loose the 2" body lift in favor for a 1" if necessary.

Redo the steering, get rid of that silly Y setup. this will happen anyway when you redo the front diff.

You will require a 6 point roll cage and harness setup, these will have to be CAMS approved.

mmmm in short, suitable for an OBC

37's, keep the rear D44 upgrade the front to D44 (+ chromo)
(id get simex 36 X 11.5 R15's peds)
4.88 ratios / ARB's front and rear (why not)
genright for WB stretch
alum. radiator
redo steering....rusty's or currie 1 tonne setup.
RE 5.5 or Claytons 5.5 lift.
1" Teraflex body lift...or JKS.
Roll Cage + harness and seats.
a BIG winch.


lastly see Wooders and be prepared for probably $15,000 worth of coin be thrown into this to get your TJ where it wants to be.....you might want to do this to an 97 TJ if you think its gonna be worth while.

tank and stretch kit
http://www.genright.com/ProductInfo.asp ... tid=EXTPKG

radiator
http://www.radiatorbarn.com/s7.asp?ac=Y ... GINE+SIZES

claytons - hard arm 5.5 kit...(weld in)
http://www.claytonoffroad.com/index.asp ... rangler!TJ

steering - rusty's
http://rustysoffroad.com/mm5/merchant.m ... y_Code=ste

or

http://www.jcroffroad.com/Merchant2/mer ... ry_Code=S6

front dana 44.
im still looking

If you are thinking of OBC - specifically build towards that.
From my suggestions would be - rough objective:
Go for 37" Tyres - the maximum allowed in OBC - but double check the allowed v's actual height as this is enforced.
Definately look to extend the WB - this does make a BIG differerence.
Weight keep it light - This is very important for both performance and fuel consumption reasons - plus you'll be required to carry so much gear that you'll want to keep it as light as possible (without sacraficing strength).

Ok onto build ideas (ok some of this is gear I sell but will try to explain why I would recommend too):
Engine - I'd consider ripping the engine out and selling it inleu of a LS1 or the like. Selling the 4.0L will add a bit of coinage towards the new donk.
Transmission - Auto - say 4L60E
T/case Atlas 3.0 (IMHO this will better suit the application).
Front Axle - High Pinion dana 30 with Super 30 kit - keep it light as this is unsprung weight. Also the D30 will give better pumpkin clearance. IMHO DON"T bother with hub kits - too many small parts that can fail and be hard to obtain.
Rear Axle - Minimum get upgraded shafts - suggest Super 44.
Both Axles - D60's are great - but just too heavy IMHO for this sort of application. 4.88 (deep as you can go with the D30), and make sure both diffs are trussed (more on that next).
Lift - I'd go for a stretched T&T Y link - The front arms are bent for more clearance and the double triangulation (uppers & lowers) of the rears not only eliminate the rear panhard but also better locate the rear axle. Plus the T&T has trusses for both the front & rear diffs (both trusses include upper mounts) and super beefy t/case crossmember skids etc.
Strecth the WB to 99-100" using the GenRight, but I'd advise against the corner panels as these are heavy. Use 4.5" springs in the front & 2.5" springs in the rear. (consider airbag helper springs too).
Fuel will be a big challenge - you will want an auxilary tank. I'd suggest a fuel cell mounted in the rear footwells (keep the weight low).
Winch - naturally a High mount. Go for 24v. and look at the upgrades available like the free spool - Be prepared to spend upto $5k on the winch alone.....
Front Bumper - I'd go something like the TBT (althought the TBT doesn't fit a Highmount) look got minimum weight, maximum clearance, and radiator protection.
Rear Bumper - I'd go bumper less and fit the spare in the cabin (although it will be a squeeze). Just remember to keep it low.
Continuing the weight aspect - run a soft top, I'd run full soft doors (but base it on something like the Olympic safari doors so it has some structure. Pull the airbags. run quality allow rims.
Do have a decent OBA setup and I'd highly recommend an onbaord welder.
Got heaps more ideas - but as a start that's what I;d be thinking......
Hope that helps give you some ideas....

thanks for all the feed back guys one thing how hard is it to have all usa parts converted to our right hand drive i was looking at rustys steering upgrade?

and david would u go for the rubicon 5;5" la
i now know i should have done that straight away.

also how difficult is it to cut the chassy and extend the wheel base?
does this mean the control arms will have to be custom made to accomodate xtra length??

JEEP1 wrote:thanks for all the feed back guys one thing how hard is it to have all usa parts converted to our right hand drive i was looking at rustys steering upgrade?

and david would u go for the rubicon 5;5" la
i now know i should have done that straight away.

also how difficult is it to cut the chassy and extend the wheel base?
does this mean the control arms will have to be custom made to accomodate xtra length??

AJ,
Actually I would not go for the 5.5 - I think it's too tall. Even if I wanted to got 38-39" tyres I would not lift that much. not just the COG and driveline issues, but also the steering etc...
Long arm is where the real gains are.
As for the WB stretch, the ones we are putting together don't require chassis extension. The old rear upper coil buckets are cut off and new ones welded on in the new possition and then with the GenRight it's a matter of getting the panelwork to locate the wheelwell, and getting the right control amr/driveshaft lengths.
So to answer your last question - yes the arms will be a different length.

One other thing to consider - anything that might bend or break (esp steering/syspension) make sure you get spares for OBC.....MaxB who has done OBC 5 times now in his TJ which is setup similar to above takes spare arms, driveshafts, etc with him every year....

LHD -> RHD steering ...Biggest issue is getthing the pan hard correctly located. Avoid ANYTHING that relies upon Heim joints.

yeh i wasnt wanting to go for the 5.5" re i have the 4.5" now and that is the tallest id wanna go.

AJ if you realy want to do the OBC go get a GQ far cheaper and easier on parts its all been done before .If you just want to play in WA and do a couple of comps then play with the Jeep just remeber everything is getting harder and more pannel damage is happening also lots of roll overs do you realy want to do this to that nice looking TJ

duncan what all up would it cost for a GQ and all mods aswell??
i really want to do a TJ up but it will seriously hurt the savings account.

A similar thread....
http://carl.outerlimits4x4.com/viewtopic.php?t=100864
OBC & budget are not 2 words to put into the same sentence

what set up did allan mcmullen have when he won the challenge in '02?

i understand he's had to do some major mods since due to the rest of the field upgrading heaps. especially in the power dept.

Wooders, in the above front axle set up, (D30 with super 30 high pinnion) would you be putting in Cro Mo gear?

I think 37 vs 36 is irrelavent in OBC, most people seem to win on 35's anyway, and thats under cars with heaps less diff clearence.

on a jeep i'd run 35 creapy crawlers for OBC. Tough tyre that really suits OBC terrain.

I Was watching 2006 OBC the other day, he said he was running coil-over's up front and air bag at the rear with a long arm system. He also running a LS2 V8 motor backed with an automatic and Atlas T-case.

Polyperformance do a coil-over for the front and Air-rock will do fart bags for the rear, they both utalise any 5.5 suspension system like Rubicon Express.

i think he also runs a curry diffs front and rear.

but what did he have in '02?

bigger balls

TJ
5.3 Gen III
T700
Atlas
Currie Hi pinipn 9 Inch Both ends. ARB Front and Detroit Rear
Coils Front
Air Bag Rear
King Smoothie Shocks
Custom Long Arm Kit
Champion Bead Locks
35 XTerrains
Excellent Driver
One of the best Navigators
And lots more

MC4x4 on here now owns it and it is getting a full rebuild.

I looked into this as well and decided to sell the jeep and build a GQ up. After working it all out on paper it will be far cheaper to build up the patrol than it will be to compete in the jeep. Dont get me wrong it will still cost a $hit load but not as much as the jeep.

yep, that is the sad reality of it.



id love to do an OBC in a TJ but it would have to be well modded to be competitive.

Hey Jeep1 what have you decided to do. Are you going to enter in the TJ?

hey sorry to reply so late havnt been on for ages,
im not shore i think im just gonna do as many local comps and wait a year or 2 and see what i can afford then,

would love to have the TJ out there.

JEEP1 If you are gonna do comps. You may need a winch.
According to your sig line you wont be capable though.

haaha that is on the because i dont have a winch haha

So whats the update mate. Plans back on the shelf or have youstarted something? Even for local comps you need to do some upgrading to prevent breakages.

no updates really really really not shore what to do have started a post in the nissan section, dunno wether to sell and by GQ something cheaper but then have hassle of selling jeep, its all to hard just wanna win the LOTTO!!

but am entering mud comp over here which shouldnt be to bad