Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Posted: **Mon Apr 09, 2007 12:10 pm**

To begin it says 'Fear My 30 hp' if you are trying to work it out.

A week or so ago i got my self a Gtech Pro to measure a baseline of my 1.3l as i intend to be building a 1.4l and was hoping for a before and after comparison on the sierra.

What i got was 30 hp, with 8 runs across 2 nights my results varied from 28-33hp and as the gtech manual states that the accuracy is plus or minus 3hp it rounded nicely to 30hp

Last night it occured to me that i input the weight at 900kg and re-reading the manual i was suppose to put the weight stated on the firewall.

So i go out in the dark and start my engine without thinking why lift up the bonnet to check the firewall and a whole lot of little electric sparks are shorting all over the engine bay like little blue catepillars.

Got the torch out and they disapeared, turn it off and they're back. Today i went out and bought a fresh set of leads and the difference is amazing i was getting a turbo lag with my engine since christmas and have been trying to figure out what it was. Judging by the difference i think i'm going to get my fuel economy back from below 10km's per litre to near 11.

Anyway took it back to the same street for the test run, set it at 900kg so i could get a before and after ignition lead test and still got 29hp, which sounds bad but i guess i was still hitting same peak power but the response from the engine was a lot quicker (took me 50m less to hit redline in 2nd).

Then input 1000kg to account for my weight and the tare weight listed on my rego papers and same run i hit 48hp, a lot nicer but i will have to try for an average later tonight as the didn't want a concern citerzen ringing the cops about drags at cromer industrial area.

Posted: **Mon Apr 09, 2007 12:29 pm**

nice one! the weather will play a part as well of course.
i tried running mine on the gtech but have forgotten the outcome by now. ill run mine again so you can have a standard 1.3L figures as well with extractors..?

Posted: **Mon Apr 09, 2007 1:52 pm**

yeah and how flat the ground is that you run on, still i think the added weight affect the over all hp more than the weather (which i know effects 3-5hp but not 18!)

Posted: **Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:31 pm**

I would put money on your car being way over 1000kg with you in it. A stripped out sierra (no trim, no soft top etc on stock wheels and tyres) will still come in over 900kg.

I have seen cars we thought were light weigh in at over 1100kg with the driver in it.

Your G tech will only be as accurate as the data you put into it.

Steve.

Posted: **Mon Apr 23, 2007 2:08 pm**

ok so after a bit of testing and finding flat locations where i can redline third gear instead of 2nd i am happy to say that i average 51-54hp on the gtech set at driver + car weight = 1100kg

I figured all along that regardless of what weight i put in (900,1000,1100) as long as i was consistant with the same weight it would still measure gains made from my upcoming engine build (more on this later) so i am sticking to 1100kg for all my gtech measuring
(incidently i did two runs on same road with a friend and added his 80kg to make 1180kg and the gtech gave me 56hp and 51hp, pretty impressive that the resolts scaled in)

Hopefully after this g13's will be making as come back

Posted: **Mon Apr 23, 2007 2:59 pm**

He he just for sh1ts and giggles, play with your weight input until the Gtech reads 67hp, then take the car to a weighbridge, get a ticket (with yo in the car) and compare.

Note also, I don't know how much driveline loss the Gtech is programmed to allow for , but bear in mind that there are two more gear/gear contacts and another set of unis over normal car, so the gtech should read a bit low due to the increased drag. (I think that is round the right way)

Steve.

Posted: **Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:29 pm**

yeah i read about the drag in the manual and i intially put my 30hp down to driveline losses, then i put in new leads and was relieved that my poor fuel economy and general unresponsiveness was not my imagination.

Now with it at 1100 kg and 52hp average i'm starting to think i'm getting a too high a reading to account for drivetrain losses.

I don't think the gtech accounts for drivetrain losses but rather just measures from your weight what you got at the wheels (hence the disclamer in the manual stating that drag will result in lower figures than dynos)

The only dyno results i can find are off Alien at Suzishop forum and he was 51hp atw with weber extractors and 8v 1.6l (though to be h0nest it probably was really poorly tuned)

As i'm the second owner of the vehicle i'm starting to wonder if i have a unknown cam upgrade. As i have kept my whole vehicle stock.

The other possibility is that suzuki simply downplayed the published power of the g13 engines. Sounds silly but on suzuki japans website the 83 model 1.3l swift has 75ps (73hp) and the 86 model has 70ps (69hp) the gti was released that year with 97hp (mk1 fuel only ecu) so the gap would appear greater. That or the realisation that people test driving similar capacity vehicles with same hp the suzuki would appear more responsive.

I know conspiracy theories, but japan technically has a power cap on it's engines (i think it's 300hp) but it's been proven that a lot of the performance engines that state they are at the limit in the adverts are well above it in real tests.

Posted: **Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:13 pm**

weight would have a big factor. think they rate driveline loss in a 2wd as 40%

if i get the time and find a $$ i will put mine on the rollers.

g16b mpfi in sierra (31s + 3.9s + 1lr case)

btw: did u get my G13bb email?

Posted: **Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:02 pm**

4agzte sierra was 150hp at the wheels with a stuffed turbo ,no timing & very rich to stop detonation because of the oil in the system ,250hp with a good turbo & proper tune.
not sure how much it has left in it ?.
its quick enough

could not get the g/tech to work on the sierra,will try it on the jimny & compare it with the dyno.

we will do a baserun on the jimny soon,stock everything with 215/75r15s,
then will turbo the g13bb & see what happens ??.

Nic drive it over i"ll throw it on the rollers, sierra's love the nullabour

Posted: **Sat May 05, 2007 12:19 am**

Did the jimny baserun today

a massive 64.6hp in shootout mode

Posted: **Mon May 07, 2007 11:31 am**

Drew wrote:Did the jimny baserun today

a massive 64.6hp in shootout mode

stock ?

Posted: **Mon May 07, 2007 11:47 am**

Drew wrote:
we will do a baserun on the jimny soon, STOCK EVERYTHING with 215/75r15s,
then will turbo the g13bb & see what happens ??.

Posted: **Mon May 07, 2007 3:01 pm**

thanks glanced through...

Posted: **Sat May 12, 2007 10:15 pm**

http://home-l2.tiscali.nl/~wnn406853/interest.htm

click the link all factory specs for all Suzuki 4wds.

My 2cyl 359cc two stroke Lj20 has 28 HP factory. So your 30HP readings are way off.

Posted: **Sat May 12, 2007 11:46 pm**

read through the thread

i would be suprised if the gtech gave me a reading of 64hp-70hp, since it has no way to measure the flywheel, the readings i'm getting are close to 'At the wheel' hp.

The gtech is great for measuring real world gains cause acceleration

times and peak hp figures are measured while the car is actually moving in changing conditions. the exact figure is not so as important as whether improve on that figure with the performance modifications you are trying to achieve

Posted: **Wed May 16, 2007 10:08 pm**

that jimny figure is at the wheels on a dyno dynamics dyno,
will have see what the gtech says ?

anyone know jimny jx weight ??
i don't have scales at work.

cheers drew

Posted: **Sat May 19, 2007 11:01 pm**

I weighed my ute at the dump the other week it weighed 1150 with my girlfriend in the car and 3/4 tank of fuel spare tyre, and tool box full of stuff. Took it to the drags tonight had a full tank, my best time was 20.19@ 63.5 mph

, my motor is fairly worked for a 1.3 haha.

Posted: **Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:31 pm**

Wellfolks, i thought i might thread dig snce i just doubled my HP

since i started is thred i upgrded from the single axis gtech to a three axis, temperature sensing and revs calibratig Gtech RR
same time last year i consistantly got 29-33kws. (still stored in the memory

)

Whats happened now is I have put in a new daikin clutch since my factory one gave up the ghost (not bad at shy of 250 thou kms)
i now consitantly get 48kws

. i thought it was a mistake but after calibrating it a cople of times, and running the same stretch of road as last year i know thats it right (same weight etc)

The thing is my car doesnt feel more powerful but when i think about it i am being a little lighter on the throttle, change the gears a little slower and well it damn right more smoother/responsive.

So there you have it, a clutch is worth like 20hp

(to be fair my engine still has reasonable compression and reads 21 inches on the vac gauge)

Posted: **Tue Jul 07, 2009 10:01 pm**

Santos wrote:Wellfolks, i thought i might thread dig snce i just doubled my HP

since i started is thred i upgrded from the single axis gtech to a three axis, temperature sensing and revs calibratig Gtech RR
same time last year i consistantly got 29-33kws. (still stored in the memory )

Whats happened now is I have put in a new daikin clutch since my factory one gave up the ghost (not bad at shy of 250 thou kms)
i now consitantly get 48kws . i thought it was a mistake but after calibrating it a cople of times, and running the same stretch of road as last year i know thats it right (same weight etc)

The thing is my car doesnt feel more powerful but when i think about it i am being a little lighter on the throttle, change the gears a little slower and well it damn right more smoother/responsive.

So there you have it, a clutch is worth like 20hp
(to be fair my engine still has reasonable compression and reads 21 inches on the vac gauge)

Not sure those readings are correct. I'm pretty sure the 1.3L only had 47kw at the engine from the factory, so all these years later you sure as shit wouldn't have gained power

Posted: **Tue Jul 07, 2009 10:05 pm**

Gutless wrote:
Santos wrote:Wellfolks, i thought i might thread dig snce i just doubled my HP

since i started is thred i upgrded from the single axis gtech to a three axis, temperature sensing and revs calibratig Gtech RR
same time last year i consistantly got 29-33kws. (still stored in the memory )

Whats happened now is I have put in a new daikin clutch since my factory one gave up the ghost (not bad at shy of 250 thou kms)
i now consitantly get 48kws . i thought it was a mistake but after calibrating it a cople of times, and running the same stretch of road as last year i know thats it right (same weight etc)

The thing is my car doesnt feel more powerful but when i think about it i am being a little lighter on the throttle, change the gears a little slower and well it damn right more smoother/responsive.

So there you have it, a clutch is worth like 20hp
(to be fair my engine still has reasonable compression and reads 21 inches on the vac gauge)
Not sure those readings are correct. I'm pretty sure the 1.3L only had 47kw at the engine from the factory, so all these years later you sure as shit wouldn't have gained power

My old 1.3L was lucky to have 4.7KW

Posted: **Tue Jul 07, 2009 10:31 pm**

Gutless wrote: Not sure those readings are correct. I'm pretty sure the 1.3L only had 47kw at the engine from the factory, so all these years later you sure as shit wouldn't have gained power

such is the awesomeness of a suzuki

on a more serious note its been set 1150kgs for readings on the gtech rr (this year and last) it really doesnt mater whaat numbers that i get cause if the weight is constant than improvements will show (though one of these days i will have to seek out a weightbridge)

Posted: **Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:23 am**

they came out with 49.5kw so it is possible that it is that high

Posted: **Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:25 am**

santos - you remember what mine looks like - lux leaves, SPOA, 31's, 1.6l engine, bucket seats... weighbridge puts me at 1040kg no driver (and the soft top full of rain)... i weigh 70 so my total is 1110 on the road... you're either really fat, or your zuk is =) hehe

get onto a weighbridge so you get the weight right - it makes a huuuuge difference!

Posted: **Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:57 am**

Mines 1200 but its a HT with strong rear bar and internal steelwork

Posted: **Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:01 am**

lol i went with 1150 cause of gwagens comments, figured i'd be over rather than under

might drop it ti 1050kg and see what effect it has on my numbers

Posted: **Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:38 am**

Zook_Fan wrote:they came out with 49.5kw so it is possible that it is that high

assumimg there is no drivetrain losses, then yes it could be that high. But unfortunately the drivetrain losses in a 4wd with transfercase would be more like 40%, so you would see a figure that was around high 20's low 30's at best.

But as santos said, the figure is irrelevant, all that matters is the gain in % of power over the old motor.

Posted: **Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:32 pm**

Unless its done on a dyno, i would question the g-tech's accuracy

Posted: **Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:58 pm**

Ha! even if i had the weight spot on i would probably have to visit 20 dynos for one to match. Its a tuning tool not braggring rights

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:01 am**

Santos wrote:i now consitantly get 48kws . i thought it was a mistake but after calibrating it a cople of times, and running the same stretch of road as last year i know thats it right (same weight etc)

Do you mean 48hp? Originally you were saying you were getting around 30hp not kw. Maybe Gutless will stop harrassing you if you meant horsepower

. 48hp is around 35kw which would work out to a drive train loss of around 27%. Thats in a perfect world where your engine hasn't lost any of its factor power since new.

P.S how did the 1.4L engine build go you mentioned at the start

Posted: **Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:15 am**

no i meant kw's i am getting 64.8hp @1150kgs and i dont think gutless intended to be harassing.

As for the 1.4l i have hoarded all the parts (well still need 76mm rings) and i have changed the planned design several times. I will be sending the block and head off for machining soon. If it doesnt go pear shape i will post up my process diary/ build thread when its done.

iUnfortunately its no longer going to go into my Sierra though bcause as of this morning i just found out i am benig given a 1.3l WT LWB from its single owner come september

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