Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hi Guys

Looking to start my own welding and am looking at either stick or mig

Will be mostly doing tube stuff and some joining work

Doesn't have to be too neat just a nice strong weld

What do you guys think would be ebst ?

I've found they both take about the same amount of skill to get a good weld with...

however because MIG is generally neater it is harder to "see" good penetration etc when your first starting.

V8patrol has some good welding threads.

Go do a basic welding nightcourse and they will teach you the basics of each and you can decide which you prefer too, best money you'll every spend.

Simon

I second what shakes has said. Infact I did exactly that, bought a MIG and did a night course at tafe. Best $200 I ever spent on the course.

Whilst I have only used an arc once I have the idea the arc is harder to use on thinner material and for pipes and stuff a mig would be better.

However arc welder is going to end up probably $1000 cheaper to purchase over a mig and then you need to pay for gas and bottle hire.

So you could potentailly buy an arc welder and then if that doesnt suit your needs consider the mig. It would be handy to have both.

Or alternatively, use the arc welder to tack and get someone to weld it with a mig or tig. Depends on how much you are going to do whether it will offset the purchase/gas/training and practice cost.

I'm only 19, and I have never welded; however my father has both a MIG, and stick arc welder. I agree with the above get the MIG; my father bought it only having ever used a stick, and said it wasn't hard to pick up how to use it. The stick welder here only gets used vary rarely. The MIG welder has done almost everything imaginable: Built 2 boat trailers, Built sliders for my zook, 'repair' on a hilux chassis, steel railings for the shed, and welded a silencer thing on the end of an exhaust pipe to name a few. Basically a MIG is very flexible, a stick is good if your building something with very thick steel, and want good weld penetration.

BTW, my father doesn't bother with gas for the MIG, he usually just uses flux core wire, but can change over to gas if wanted.

A little off-topic, but has anyone done stainless steel with a stick welder?

TiG welding is the prefer-ed type for roll bar/cages.
It has better penetration than MiG and does not leave flukes deposits as with stick welders.
CAMS specifies TiG or Heliarc. (Heliarc is the same as TiG but uses Helium gas)

Zute wrote:TiG welding is the prefer-ed type for roll bar/cages.
It has better penetration than MiG and does not leave flukes deposits as with stick welders.
CAMS specifies TiG or Heliarc. (Heliarc is the same as TiG but uses Helium gas)

whats a tig worth compared to mig?

Cheapest TIG I've seen at the welding shop I goto is around $5000.

Maybe slightly cheaper say $3000 but that would be pushing.

Unimigs can be had for $1200 for a 250amp (single phase) there abouts.

Mig will be easier for people to start welding with than stick, but stick welder for home will be the cheapest to buy and get stuff for.

Going gasless will be cheaper than going gas, as you won't need to buy or rent a bottle and then get it filled up when needed.

Chinese TIG's on ebay go from $1500-2k from what ive seen. Friend of mine has one and Ive heard good feedback.. Hes a fitter and turner by trade.

Thats your cheapest option.

Zute wrote:TiG welding is the prefer-ed type for roll bar/cages.
It has better penetration than MiG and does not leave flukes deposits as with stick welders.
CAMS specifies TiG or Heliarc. (Heliarc is the same as TiG but uses Helium gas)

Is that for a specific class or application?

From the 2007 CAMS manual:

3.2.8 Guidance on welding: All welding must be of the highest possible quality with full penetration and preferably using a gas shielded arc. Welds must be along the whole circumference of the tube.
Although good external appearance of a weld does not necessarily guarantee its quality, poor looking welds are never a sign of good workmanship.
When using heat-treated steel the special instructions of the manufacturers must be followed (special electrodes, gas protected welding).
It must be emphasised that the use of heat-treated or high carbon steels may cause problems and that bad fabrication may result in a decrease in strength (caused by brittle heat-affected zones) or inadequate ductility.

i know someone whos selling a cheap MIG if you like! it comes complete with all you need except gas!

grazza wrote:A little off-topic, but has anyone done stainless steel with a stick welder?

Yes, I've had success welding stainless steel with an arc welder and rods.

I must admit though - it was difficult to get it started but it seemed that the more heat I got into both pieces I was joining - the easier it became to weld.

I've actually used stainless rods on mild steel before (by mistake when building my motorbike trailer), and they seemed to be the best welds I had done at the time. I don't know the reasoning for this but they laid down a very neat bead and didn't have all the black flux around to knock off after it had cooled. I believe stainless rods are expensive though......


I hope this helps.

Anthony.

DEEV8 wrote:whats a tig worth compared to mig?

about the same for good qaulity units, a half deosnt inverter arc/tig start from $450 some brands will include a tig torch, and gas regulator for a little extra.

im cant remember how much bottle rentel is, but use a DL size or a E size bottle. DL will cost $43 to refil and a E is $63, the DL will last me 3-4 months using it every week end on cars and small stuff, i just swaped to the E size today so it should last at least 4-4.5 months,by the way this is on my mig.

now a small mig should start around $500 for 140 amp (i use a 240 amp uni mig that cost $1400 complete from total tools)


tig: neat and tidy, but very time consuming, good for 0.9-6mm with out to much distortion or hasle about 120 amp

mig: qwik, easy, good for 1.2- 12mm on a small unit up to 195 amp

arc: qwik, not as easy but imposible, little mesy, good for 2-8mm 120 amp

im no expert but thats what i think and what has worked for me

i use stainless rods all the time i reckong they lay a better weld and i dont worry about the cost. i also use one of the those inverter welders they are great to use but prefer mig if i can get to a one

g60boy wrote:now a small mig should start around $500 for 140 amp

damn! im only asking $350 for my one! and its a 150amp MIG MATE

familybus wrote:

g60boy wrote:now a small mig should start around $500 for 140 amp

damn! im only asking $350 for my one! and its a 150amp MIG MATE

bargan

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Brand-New-3-in-1 ... dZViewItem
ive been thinking of getting one of these as i have access to 2 very good migs when ever i need them and thought this would be a good multipurpose tool.

any idea what they are like?. what they cut and weld like?
sorry for the hijack

ps i am not the most experianced welder but i am yet to have anything ive made break. id pick a mig for ease of use and genreal handy man duties af you havent welded much before i think you will find them alot more fool proof and easier to make good looking strong welds

You should be able to get one welder to do both TIG and ARC (stick).

That's enough options to get almost anything done. MIG is my favourite and oh so fast.

If you do not know which type of welder you need. Then I would highly recomend you attend a welding coarse. Make your mind up from there.

I just picked up a little CIG gasless MIG and a CIG arc off eBay for $200 and $58. Now I've just got to practise welding with them.

badger wrote:http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Brand-New-3-in-1 ... dZViewItem
ive been thinking of getting one of these as i have access to 2 very good migs when ever i need them and thought this would be a good multipurpose tool.

any idea what they are like?. what they cut and weld like?
sorry for the hijack

ps i am not the most experianced welder but i am yet to have anything ive made break. id pick a mig for ease of use and genreal handy man duties af you havent welded much before i think you will find them alot more fool proof and easier to make good looking strong welds

I got that type of unit here in Scotland. It`s a handy tool. The stick function is good as being Inverter it has a smoother arc than a transformer type. The cutter is good. Aint tried the tig function yet.
Alex

g60boy wrote:

DEEV8 wrote:whats a tig worth compared to mig?

about the same for good qaulity units, a half deosnt inverter arc/tig start from $450 some brands will include a tig torch, and gas regulator for a little extra.

im cant remember how much bottle rentel is, but use a DL size or a E size bottle. DL will cost $43 to refil and a E is $63, the DL will last me 3-4 months using it every week end on cars and small stuff, i just swaped to the E size today so it should last at least 4-4.5 months,by the way this is on my mig.

now a small mig should start around $500 for 140 amp (i use a 240 amp uni mig that cost $1400 complete from total tools)


tig: neat and tidy, but very time consuming, good for 0.9-6mm with out to much distortion or hasle about 120 amp

mig: qwik, easy, good for 1.2- 12mm on a small unit up to 195 amp

arc: qwik, not as easy but imposible, little mesy, good for 2-8mm 120 amp

im no expert but thats what i think and what has worked for me

thanks for that. i can weld with a tig. i can live with it taking longer, as ill be buggered if i can weld with a mig or make an arc weld look like anything other than duckshit...

Before buying a welder you need to look at WHAT EXACTLY you need it for, if its just a w/end warrior for a project that once finished means the welder will be parked under the bench for a year then go the arc, if you have a heap of mates that stuff welded and it looks as if you'll be welding every Saturday arvo for the next billion years then get a mig.

I will NOT take an apprentice if he has had any mig training without arc training too, infact my current apprentice ONLY had mig training at 'skewl' up until the start of this year where I 'allowed' him to start using the mig.
He is now welding better than guys that have been in the trade for years, and now agrees if I had of let him learn mig as he wanted to he wouldnt be as good as he is now.
Arc welders that go over to mig are heaps better, you rarely find anyone going the other way that is any good.
One of our qualified guys cant weld with arc at all, wont even attempt learning it because he knows how tough it will be for him to learn it.



Mig.
Its easy to learn and will provide a reasonable weld for SFA training.
Cost is higher to run ..... cylinder rental is a killer !
Not much good on Galvinised pipe / or other plated mild steels.
Hates rusty material
Forget using it outside on a windy day.

Arc.
Much harder to learn but once you have basic control then the conversion to mig will be far easier and your welds will be very much superior to someone that went straight to mig.
Will weld just about anything & anywhere !


Inverter welders.
There IS a god


Unless you have a skilled person to teach you then DO A COURSE.....
sure it costs but its worth EVERY CENT !