Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Just wondering what would you prefere to watch at X-Rock?

Modified's

Or Tubebuggies

Both are going to be awsome to watch, and i personally think i would like to see something that still looks like a hilux or a nissan attack the course, But the tubebuggies obviously are going to be awsome to watch i cant wait! 8)

I think tube buggys is where its going to be at in the next few years. In the US they went from modified rigs to full tube buggies (that just looked like a pile of tubes) and now everyone runs tubes that look like a factory based rig (with clip on panels and a factory looking bonnet and grill).

Sam

Yeah modifieds for me.I like to see a rig with some resembalance to what it realy is. My new rig will be in open class but will still have mostly full panels.There are too many comps in Aus that wont allow unregistered vehicles to compete for me to go full tube. So far the best comps i have competed and watched have been the Australian Short Coarse Championships as the rules were real simple and all the rigs were attainable by the general population and it wasnt allways the bigest dollar rig that one.
I think my mate in a $1000 zook took out more trophies than anyone else ever at the one event at the final event this year.

Yea - thats the problem of building a full tube rig (say one thats totally unregisterable)

You really dont have many places that you can drive the thing. In Qld all the 4wd parks require you to be registered and all the established 4wd comps are all street registered. If you got an unredistered tube buggy the only plase to compete will be at XRCC (maybe TuffTruck??).

Full unregistered tube buggies will come but for me Im going to hold off for another year and see how everything pans out.

Sam

Im with you guys, Im bulding the Mav to be partial tube and the rest hangons and keeping the Mav/GQ look, as I know my sponsors like it that way as they are selling to the man in the street who is driving a Nissan, Toyota or Jeep ect not a tube creation. I am also keeping it engineered and regestered so I can do any comp in OZ that I want and drive it on the street when I want to.


This is just my opionion and Im not saying any one way is correct, but It Is going to be interesting competing against them.

I love modified's, and watching a ute or wagon or something hammer through a comp course. And I like the idea of a factory car with spastic suspension that can do all sorts of ballistic tracks. But in practicality, nothing could beat owning a tube buggy.... custom everything (clearance, angles, weights) and the abilty to roll onto side or roof, and put her back up, and keep driving the rest of the day, and not have to do six hours of panel work on sunday night!!

So its a tough one. For my driving, or more so the driving I like the most, something without windows or major panels is the go. And for wathcing in comps, its also the go, because drivers are much more adventurous in their approach. But I did vote modifed, because it is still cool seeing a (mostly) factory car in comp And also for the time being, here in Ozz, you need some thing registerable. There are a few options and ways around things popping up though

Dan

Bring on the tube buggies.

Super modifed semi-tube buggies with a slight resemblance to the original look is good. But I'd still rather watch full tube monsters at X-Rock.

i like the 4bs that r modified at comps for the simple reason most people can afford to modify there truck but when we see things like full tube

,its out of reach of the mr average person who would like to do comps...
comps r great the way they are with the classes ....if tube buggies come in i still would like to see the classes that r at the comps already....modified...open..etc
gives the average bloke a chance to compete without selling the house......my 2 cents......steve

thunder wrote:i like the 4bs that r modified at comps for the simple reason most people can afford to modify there truck but when we see things like full tube

,its out of reach of the mr average person who would like to do comps...
comps r great the way they are with the classes ....if tube buggies come in i still would like to see the classes that r at the comps already....modified...open..etc
gives the average bloke a chance to compete without selling the house......my 2 cents......steve

i think and steve is right
i just think he might be right

i love to watch both and think it should stay that way
but i think to have a winning chance you will have to go tube.

My .02 as a "cyber wheeler":

imho you gotta keep a reality check (cheque?)... i'd hate to see this go the same way as many forms of motorsport and price itself up its own proverbial keister... (don't alienate competitors who can become disillusioned) a delicate balance of progression and $$$... sustainability is the key for everybody (spectators, media, industry, competitors and event organisers (thankless job!) and especially at this early stage but BOY OH BOY the growth and enthusisam is staggering...

big red wrote:i love to watch both and think it should stay that way
but i think to have a winning chance you will have to go tube.

Not really.

A tube buggy is basically a normal rig with out panels.

You could build a tube buggy and a hilux run the same running gear and same size tyres, the only real difference would be the weight.

I think it mainly depends on drivers ability and attitude.

There are still plenty of guys in the states running full modified rather than buggies.

I think (note THINK) the first place of the SUPERCRAWL still had most of his original chassis.

I love both but slightly more inclined to the full modified as they still look like and feel like a true 4B.

personally i like 2 c sumthin that can b driven on the street (LEGALLY) that can drive these bullshiat tracks that r poppin up everywhere. i think it is more exciting drivin and seein sumthin that u might c at the local coles carpark(BJ) drive a huge mutha of a rock ledge it seems 2 b make a better driver rather than sumthin that is holey and soely designed 2 do it if u know wot i mean ??

I know this subject has been beaten about like whore that pissed her pimp off but here is my 2cents

I would like to see 3 classes

1. Weekend heros class the rules here would need to be simple tyres can be 2"s bigger than stock max 2.5" lift no major cutting suspension must be of orginal design ( longer arms etc to keep gemotry but must be the same design) Lockers are allowed but must be stock diffs this would be the same as most build there truck for hard weekend work

2. ledgends class this is a full street registered but comp truck pretty much as long as you can get an engineers cert go for it

3. Open this class is for the big cheque books and should not be registered ( you would need an engineer at the event to do the saftey checks)

Each class should run on their own track not the same track a hard track for class 1 would be sleepy at best for the open class

The key though is that the classes run their own track you dont find many people taking the less modified trucks in comps cause that would just be stupid and asking to break them on the curreent tracks

AussieCJ7 wrote:I would like to see 3 classes

1. Weekend heros class the rules here would need to be simple tyres can be 2"s bigger than stock max 2.5" lift no major cutting suspension must be of orginal design ( longer arms etc to keep gemotry but must be the same design) Lockers are allowed but must be stock diffs this would be the same as most build there truck for hard weekend work

I think this has some merit, but I think upto a 4in lift, so most can run 35s without too much hassle.

2. ledgends class this is a full street registered but comp truck pretty much as long as you can get an engineers cert go for it

Works for me...

3. Open this class is for the big cheque books and should not be registered ( you would need an engineer at the event to do the saftey checks)

Like yellow Pete...

Each class should run on their own track not the same track a hard track for class 1 would be sleepy at best for the open class

This is where it wont work... You need 3 times as many people and time and effort to go out there and set up all this, and on the day you need extra people, medical, etc etc, and then theres insurance, and entry fees..

But it was a nice dream while it lasted!




I think if it goes full tube that will scare away some prospective entrants, who are broke and would like to compete.. If you keep it so they are as they are now, people out there with their basic 40-60-80 wth tires etc may be more inclined to get involved and have a go.. Where if they are competing against 20 other tube monsters, why would you bother, your not going to be competitive...

Leave it as above combined Class 1 & 2 and Class 3 on the same course, maybe with some mega sections involved for class 3 to put on the show.... but 2 classes for prizes.

bogged wrote:

AussieCJ7 wrote:I would like to see 3 classes

1. Weekend heros class the rules here would need to be simple tyres can be 2"s bigger than stock max 2.5" lift no major cutting suspension must be of orginal design ( longer arms etc to keep gemotry but must be the same design) Lockers are allowed but must be stock diffs this would be the same as most build there truck for hard weekend work

I think this has some merit, but I think upto a 4in lift, so most can run 35s without too much hassle.

Where do you draw the line to classes 2 ?? I think class one should be what ever can be done without an engineers cert and class 2 is engineers cert then class 3 go for it

2. ledgends class this is a full street registered but comp truck pretty much as long as you can get an engineers cert go for it

Works for me...

3. Open this class is for the big cheque books and should not be registered ( you would need an engineer at the event to do the saftey checks)

Like yellow Pete...

Each class should run on their own track not the same track a hard track for class 1 would be sleepy at best for the open class

This is where it wont work... You need 3 times as many people and time and effort to go out there and set up all this, and on the day you need extra people, medical, etc etc, and then theres insurance, and entry fees..

But it was a nice dream while it lasted!




I think if it goes full tube that will scare away some prospective entrants, who are broke and would like to compete.. If you keep it so they are as they are now, people out there with their basic 40-60-80 wth tires etc may be more inclined to get involved and have a go.. Where if they are competing against 20 other tube monsters, why would you bother, your not going to be competitive...

Leave it as above combined Class 1 & 2 and Class 3 on the same course, maybe with some mega sections involved for class 3 to put on the show.... but 2 classes for prizes.[/quote]


While I agree the logistic drain on 3 courses are a major hurdle what are you running here a mothers club picinic or a professional motor sport event.

If you dont have at least 2 courses you will never get many taking the option of the lower classes as they will end up spending as much as the big trucks just to fix the carnage
we all know what happens to close to stock running gear on hardcore tracks you need to balance out the challenge for the small trucks and the cost to compete after all this is where you are going to get tomorrows drivers of the tube buggies


How many close to stock trucks do you see compete now ??? Ever asked yourself why ??? I think as most have more common sense than to abuse their daily driver in something that they have no chance of winning

Remember that Ballsac and everyone that competed at TTC, including myself are all regestered and engineered, so does that mean that they compete in class 2 not 3 or open class.
Im sure that Dave and a few other helpers have thuoght about the rules for XRCC long and hard, and on 1-1-03 we will find out all about it. 8)

AussieCJ7 wrote:I know this subject has been beaten about like whore that pissed her pimp off but here is my 2cents

I would like to see 3 classes

1. Weekend heros class the rules here would need to be simple tyres can be 2"s bigger than stock max 2.5" lift no major cutting suspension must be of orginal design ( longer arms etc to keep gemotry but must be the same design) Lockers are allowed but must be stock diffs this would be the same as most build there truck for hard weekend work

2. ledgends class this is a full street registered but comp truck pretty much as long as you can get an engineers cert go for it

3. Open this class is for the big cheque books and should not be
registered ( you would need an engineer at the event to do the saftey checks)

Each class should run on their own track not the same track a hard track for class 1 would be sleepy at best for the open class

The key though is that the classes run their own track you dont find many people taking the less modified trucks in comps cause that would just be stupid and asking to break them on the curreent tracks

gee thats the same formate as the ASCC.

GLEN

AussieCJ7 wrote:

bogged wrote:

AussieCJ7 wrote:

Where do you draw the line to classes 2 ?? I think class one should be what ever can be done without an engineers cert and class 2 is engineers cert then class 3 go for it

what you say has merit, and I agree from a competitors point...

But from an organizers point, due to man hours and stuff for running events.. For 3 classes, you need 3 courses you say.

Thats 3 sets of scrutineers, 3 sets of marshalls, 3 sets of prizes... Makes it hard for organizers.

While I agree the logistic drain on 3 courses are a major hurdle what are you running here a mothers club picinic or a professional motor sport event.

You go out and try and run an event with not 50 people(which is BARE min i would guess? marshalls, organizers in background, recovery, entry person, scrutineers, etc etc), but try finding 150 enough for 3 events on the one day/weekend... people will get pissed with that real fast, and not come back to marshall etc. Remember these people are volunteers. They get Fuck all in the way of thanks, a can of coke and pickled ham sandwich?

It would work if you ran 3 series. Different times, not all on same day, or is that what you mean?

If you dont have at least 2 courses you will never get many taking the option of the lower classes as they will end up spending as much as the big trucks just to fix the carnage

I agree, but then you need to setup 2 courses from scratch, I remember chat on how much effort went into one evenr winch challange maybe, it wasnt just accept entry $ and pick a block of land, throw up some bunting and into it... Theres a lot more in it.

we all know what happens to close to stock running gear on hardcore tracks you need to balance out the challenge for the small trucks

Small trucks are competing now and kicking arse, look at Kermit, and few other Zooks, etc... and thats on the mega courses of today(probably the Hume Hwy of tomorrow)..

and the cost to compete after all this is where you are going to get tomorrows drivers of the tube buggies

Exactly... make it too expensive and professional like yellow Pete, Cheezy, Dobins etc then Im sure as shit not going to bother.

How many close to stock trucks do you see compete now ???

What do you call close to stock? Big tires and suspension?
Quite a few do.

Ever asked yourself why ??? I think as most have more common sense than to abuse their daily driver in something that they have no chance of winning

Cheezys wife drives his truck around to the shops and stuff... Its actually her truck.

But if you mean everyone should start a competition only rig, then you just blew shit loads of prospective runners, who can afford $5000ish just to buy something to wreck, thats after the $15,000 you spend on it to destroy it... maybe you but lots cant.

You need to keep it in reach of everyone.

Bogged.

The last 2 comments you quoted go together and make more sense if you do not seperate them.

The big trucks are for the spectators and sponsors as much as the drivers the sport needs them and event organisers should cater for them.

How does someone start in the sport if you dont have a class that is cheap and easy to get into ??

Dont forget that the course can all be run over the same track but the lower classes have different markers to go through this minimises the number of organisers needed or as you also suggested that you have 2 series of events on for lower classes and one for the buggie monsters but then all the sponsors money will go to the buggies

the other option is that you say screw the newbies and you have just one class where anything goes and the sport will reach its pinical in a year or two then die almost as quick