Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I was talking to a mate yesterday and we were discussing doing 4 link on the front of the patrol by utilising a rear trailing arm mounted to the top of the front diff, and mounted to the chassis..... allowing you to remove the front radius arm bolts..... i did a search got lots of stuff i wasn't interested in. Anybody got pics of it working? or of the setup? i have another mate (yes i do actually have a couple of friends ) who is going to make me brackets to mount the arm, and then weld it all on for me. The thing i like about it is i can then put the front bolts back in for road manners after i am done.

Patrolden wrote:I was talking to a mate yesterday and we were discussing doing 4 link on the front of the patrol by utilising a rear trailing arm mounted to the top of the front diff, and mounted to the chassis..... allowing you to remove the front radius arm bolts..... i did a search got lots of stuff i wasn't interested in. Anybody got pics of it working? or of the setup? i have another mate (yes i do actually have a couple of friends ) who is going to make me brackets to mount the arm, and then weld it all on for me. The thing i like about it is i can then put the front bolts back in for road manners after i am done.

Cant put the bolts back in when your done, as when a radius arm travels up and down, it rotates the diff (part of the reason for the binding in the radius arm setup). With both bolts in the upper link will try to fight this, causing binding and flogging out bushs. If you are going to do a 3 link plus panhard, do it the full way not half arsed.

Layto....

that being the case, it could be removed..... only takes 2 bolts.

lay80n wrote: If you are going to do a 3 link plus panhard, do it the full way not half arsed.

Layto....

thats why i asked first

Patrolden wrote:

lay80n wrote: If you are going to do a 3 link plus panhard, do it the full way not half arsed.

Layto....

thats why i asked first

I like your thinking. The other advantage with doing it the full way is that you can set up your front end's characteristics as far as anti-dive etc too (to a point, as there will be limitiations). You could take the top arm out etc, but in the end it would be a PITA.

Layto....

it was suggested by Dan that an adjustable arm would work better because you could adjust your castor as well..... i'm not looking at doing it permanently.... 5 minutes in the car park before wheeling, 10 minutes (counting removing the mud and crap) when you finish.

So you want to add one or two top arms , undo your front radius arm bolts and enablemore flex yeh , Cheers paul.

I have allready though about this but you still have all the shit hanging down under the diff to get hung up on. Have you tried taking a bolt out? Im getting good flex from mine even with brand new springs. I also have the pin arms you have the after market dont you? So you should be getting better flex than me if you take a bolt out.

MART wrote:So you want to add one or two top arms , undo your front radius arm bolts and enablemore flex yeh , Cheers paul.

got it in one

ZOOK60 wrote:I have already though about this but you still have all the shit hanging down under the diff to get hung up on. Have you tried taking a bolt out? Im getting good flex from mine even with brand new springs. I also have the pin arms you have the after market dont you? So you should be getting better flex than me if you take a bolt out.

i crawled underneath earlier with a standard lower rear arm and checked it out..... if i mounted it a couple of inches off the top of the diff, then mounted it back onto the bottom of the chassis, it will still be higher up than my exhaust. and it will be level allowing for plenty of up and down movement. I would imagine that the taller the mount from the diff, the more stress on it when braking......

I think its the opposite dude the higher or further away the arms are from each other the less pressure there is on the diff rotating. I run two bottom arms in line with the centre of the diff , then 1 down the centre which is mounted to my gearbox mount. I have to put nylon bushes in to stop axle rap , but if you retain your original lower mounts 4-5 inchs to the centre of the arm from the top of diff should be fine , as high as you can go would be good . The only problem is you can't have top arms connected with both bolts in the radius arm as for normal driving the car would have limited flex , by the way are you in qld , Cheers Paul.

MART wrote:I think its the opposite dude the higher or further away the arms are from each other the less pressure there is on the diff rotating. I run two bottom arms in line with the centre of the diff , then 1 down the centre which is mounted to my gearbox mount. I have to put nylon bushes in to stop axle rap , but if you retain your original lower mounts 4-5 inchs to the centre of the arm from the top of diff should be fine , as high as you can go would be good . The only problem is you can't have top arms connected with both bolts in the radius arm as for normal driving the car would have limited flex , by the way are you in qld , Cheers Paul.

we are mounting it (my mate just left with measurements) about 3" above the diff..... that way sitting on level ground the arm will be level, and not pointing downwards as it would if i bolted it to the top of the diff. I am making a pin with an "R" clip to mount it to the top of the diff, so when i'm done, i can remove the pin and mount the upper bar up out of the way.

No i'm not in Qld.... Hunter Valley NSW

You weren't thinking of removing the pan hard rod were you??

Joel

PGS 4WD wrote:You weren't thinking of removing the pan hard rod were you??

Joel

nope, not at all.

No worries , do you think you will have enough movement in the radius arm while the front bolt is missing and how much gap is there between top annd bottom arm centres , also make sur you make a robust mount , Cheers Paul.

it has 3rds arms and slotted bushes. I'm hoping it has enough movement there.

Are you talking about one upper control arm on the inside of the left chassis rail to 3 inches above the axle tube?

I lowered the rear bush mount so the arms were level again and got more articulation than the 3" springs would allow before coming loose and the arm being straight means the pin goes straight through the bush eye, I twisted the chassis (through the eye) and broke one arm prior to doing this, when you look at the arc the arm travells through when you hit a bump the wheel has to go forward while being pushed up and back, its all ugly. The thirds arms do the same thing but with the increasing speed in our 4x4 events the last thing I want is the 5"-6" lift theyre designed for.

Joel

Nelso wrote:Are you talking about one upper control arm on the inside of the left chassis rail to 3 inches above the axle tube?

yes basically. although, i will be mounting it on the bottom of the chassis rail, there is no room inside it with the exhaust from the V8. The zorst hangs down a little, and the mount will still be almost level with the zorst...... it hasn't collected anything yet. I thought about the arc that the diff will take when it flexs, but there should be enough give in the factory rubbers to take the twist.

PGS 4WD wrote:I lowered the rear bush mount so the arms were level again and got more articulation than the 3" springs would allow before coming loose and the arm being straight means the pin goes straight through the bush eye, I twisted the chassis (through the eye) and broke one arm prior to doing this, when you look at the arc the arm travells through when you hit a bump the wheel has to go forward while being pushed up and back, its all ugly. The thirds arms do the same thing but with the increasing speed in our 4x4 events the last thing I want is the 5"-6" lift theyre designed for.

Joel

the 3rd's arms are a bit of a worry at the moment.....

How much separation are you planning on running between the upper and lowers arms?

They reckon about 25% of your tyre size which for you would be 200-250mm .
Cheers Joel

STUMPY wrote:How much separation are you planning on running between the upper and lowers arms?

They reckon about 25% of your tyre size which for you would be 200-250mm .
Cheers Joel

not sure..... i didn't measure it. would be close to that

Oh I get it know. The upper arm is to control rotation front-back only.

Diff goes up-down and and rotates left-right around the diff centre. Would it rotate about the centre of the pumpkin - I guess around the driveshaft input? If so there would be some lateral movement too. Probably handled, but would need to confirm?

Not sure f this is right, but its what I visualise.

basically that's it... upper arm is to stop rotation. I figure using one of the old lower arms from the back would work well.... from all reports, the factory rubbers are soft enough to take all the twist that will be generated. Either way, it should for all intents and purposes flex better than it does now. A lot of the problem stems from the stiff springs.... but if the back flexes good, which it does, the front might just work better with this set up. I was told that there was one or two on this forum that have done exactly what i am doing with the 4 link. It's not running from the centre of the diff.... but being mounted 3" above the diff, it will hopefully work ok.

Tony, if there is enough room, put 2 arms on top of the diff... u are running pretty big tyres, u will get diff housing twist while under torque and braking, and it will be easier to bend the housing if you hit the side which wont have a top arm...

btw, while u are making the top links, also make new lower links (get rid of the drop arms), and make them all adjustable.

Ulises

i could probably put 2 on top, but i don't want to have to get it engineered again for 5 link..... if it works, i will maybe put a second one on the top, and make it part time.... i was thinking as well that it would probably work every bit as good if i removed both rear bolts on the radius arms?? and left the front ones in......