Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Has anyone here set up a turbo compound system?

I.e. one turbo blowing into another, two stages of air compression.

Dieseltec has both a GQ TD42 running 45-50 psi and a crusier running aroung the same boost pressure using compound turboing.

Hasnt fuelled the TD42 to hard yet as it isn't intercooled.

regards

daniels

sequential turbo's are complicated and require a fair bit of manifold frab work.

the other way is to go get the variable turbo off the GU patrol and use a controller for it. a lot simpler as far as manifolds are concerned but the controller can be a bit tricky.

tweak'e wrote:sequential turbo's are complicated and require a fair bit of manifold frab work.

the other way is to go get the variable turbo off the GU patrol and use a controller for it. a lot simpler as far as manifolds are concerned but the controller can be a bit tricky.

did all GU's have it, i thought it came out on the intercooler td42 version.

KiwiBacon wrote:Has anyone here set up a turbo compound system?

I.e. one turbo blowing into another, two stages of air compression.

Yep heaps of them around BD diesel over in the USA have kits for different US diesels, pump out power something stupid as well.

I seen a T78 going into a T98 they had as a system for a F250, 5 inch pipe for the first turbo then into 8 inch pipe after second turbo. on a TV show.

That system supposed to really bump up the Hp figures then coupled with their chip upgrade it will make a F250 light up 33 or 35 inch AT tires no problems.

On the TV show they had people doing donuts in F250's etc.

An example of the power to be had...

SuperMax turbo kit for GM Duramax offers up to 550 rwhp, plus enhanced durability and a new low price!

http://www.bd-power.com/gmc/product.php ... rbo&tt=gmc

check out the videos.

Yes i have done it, the landcruiser is now back as standard as wifey wanted her car back.

The benfits if matched correctly are no lag, cruising at 100kmh you have roughly a boost pressure of 13-18psi, put your foot down and you take off.

Downsides, on GQ td 42 patrol, there isnt a lot of space. I am using a cast manifold, but everything else has to be fabricated. Would I go back to a single turbo after this, no way.

Why dont more people do it.......I could find no one in australia at the time of wanting to do it originally that could help me, even the turbo companies, all thought I was crazy. There is alot involved in setting a pump up properly, no real need if you only want 150ish kw.

In usa, tractor pullers are now using up to 4 in compound, developing up to 250psi boost pressure. The new f truck coming out new there next year has it as standard on the diesel version.

Hope this helps, dont be sacred of it, the people who have been for a ride all loved it, thought it was equivelant to a v8 in acceleration.

Andy

Dzltec wrote:Yes i have done it, the landcruiser is now back as standard as wifey wanted her car back.

The benfits if matched correctly are no lag, cruising at 100kmh you have roughly a boost pressure of 13-18psi, put your foot down and you take off.

Downsides, on GQ td 42 patrol, there isnt a lot of space. I am using a cast manifold, but everything else has to be fabricated. Would I go back to a single turbo after this, no way.

Why dont more people do it.......I could find no one in australia at the time of wanting to do it originally that could help me, even the turbo companies, all thought I was crazy. There is alot involved in setting a pump up properly, no real need if you only want 150ish kw.

In usa, tractor pullers are now using up to 4 in compound, developing up to 250psi boost pressure. The new f truck coming out new there next year has it as standard on the diesel version.

Hope this helps, dont be sacred of it, the people who have been for a ride all loved it, thought it was equivelant to a v8 in acceleration.

Andy

so would you do it again andy?

whats the rough estimate for that kind of setup?

diesel only or petrol too?

So those running decent boost (30-50psi), how has the engine held up?

At the moment its diesel only, but have a mate who is willing to do it to a 350chev, although at a lower boost pressure. It will take time. Both vehicles held up well under those boost conditions, remeber its only happening at full throttle. Egts are the thing to watch.

Yes I will do it again, done two so far. Cost, never added it up, alot of time in fabrication and developement.

JPC worked on a comp truck that already had a turbo/supercharger combimation (installed by someone else). He removed the whole system and replaced it with a single turbo.

I believe the vehicle was the Cassaboo red GU comp truck.

Dzltec wrote:Yes i have done it, the landcruiser is now back as standard as wifey wanted her car back.

So what turbos did you use and what did you set the boost to?

I'm planning to start small, using a GT2256V as the little turbo and a T28 as the big.
My goal isn't stupid levels of boost and power, the goal is the widest boost and torque curve I can get.

What the bacon asked and Dzltec, what mods to make it last...

KIwibacon,

what vehicle is this going onto? That will determine turbo sizing. You have to work from engine air useage and work backwards.

In tems of longevity at sustained boost levels, oring the head and head studs will help the head hgasket gasket staying where it should, a very good intercooler and an egt guage.

The 80 series was fitted up for 12 months or so with no issues, over 100 dyno runs and with 370,000km on the clock.

Andy

Dzltec wrote:KIwibacon,

what vehicle is this going onto? That will determine turbo sizing. You have to work from engine air useage and work backwards.

In tems of longevity at sustained boost levels, oring the head and head studs will help the head hgasket gasket staying where it should, a very good intercooler and an egt guage.

The 80 series was fitted up for 12 months or so with no issues, over 100 dyno runs and with 370,000km on the clock.

Andy

Thanks Andy, I'm quite familiar with turbo sizing and have done all the sums I can at this point. That's why I wanted to know what you used, reverse engineering the setup can tell me a lot.

Did you o-ring the head on your engine or did you just go more conservative with the boost? What pressure were you running?

Engine in both cases were stock, only the pumps were modified, I have a highly modified toyota pump on my nissan, boost is at 55psi at the moment.

Allow for i/c altering air density when doing your sums.

Andy

Dzltec wrote:Engine in both cases were stock, only the pumps were modified, I have a highly modified toyota pump on my nissan, boost is at 55psi at the moment.

Allow for i/c altering air density when doing your sums.

Andy

Thanks. This is going on an Isuzu 4BD1T if all goes to plan.

Yep got the math model of intercooling sorted.

Show me a pic when finished, let me know how it goes, I think you will love it if you can get your delivery sorted correctly.

Andy

come on guys we want pix!


this i gotta see..

TEAMRPM wrote:come on guys we want pix!


this i gotta see..

Don't hold your breath for the metal version, that may take a year or two. But here's the virtual start.

TEAMRPM wrote:

It took some time to draw those up, but space is tight so I think in the end it'll be worth it.

Heres a pic of a cummins engine, same idea.

[http://www.piersdiesel.com/images/DodgeTwins4_lg.jpg]
I hope this works.

Andy

GQ4.8coilcab wrote:

tweak'e wrote:sequential turbo's are complicated and require a fair bit of manifold frab work.

the other way is to go get the variable turbo off the GU patrol and use a controller for it. a lot simpler as far as manifolds are concerned but the controller can be a bit tricky.

did all GU's have it, i thought it came out on the intercooler td42 version.

the 3litre ZD30 powered GU's have it. however i'm not sure if it would be suitable for the amount of boost your looking at running. while they are known for peaking at 60ib i don't think they last to long at that.

BMW dual turbo setup


have a search thereare better cut away pics which show all the bypasses.

tweak'e wrote:

GQ4.8coilcab wrote:

tweak'e wrote:sequential turbo's are complicated and require a fair bit of manifold frab work.

the other way is to go get the variable turbo off the GU patrol and use a controller for it. a lot simpler as far as manifolds are concerned but the controller can be a bit tricky.

did all GU's have it, i thought it came out on the intercooler td42 version.

the 3litre ZD30 powered GU's have it. however i'm not sure if it would be suitable for the amount of boost your looking at running. while they are known for peaking at 60ib i don't think they last to long at that.

BMW dual turbo setup


have a search thereare better cut away pics which show all the bypasses.

That picture you just put up is of the BMW 535d turbo setup. One of the first 3L diesels to put out 500Nm and meet emissions. I think it runs 42psi.
I'd like to have the time and money to develop such a setup, but we can only dream.

The Nissan ZD30 used a Garrett GT2052V turbo (V is for variable vane, 52 is a 52mm compressor wheel). The top turbo in that picture I put up is a garrett GT2256V with a 56mm compressor wheel. It's from a mercedes 2.7l diesel.
I will be installing that first, seeing how it goes before adding the second one.
The turbo just below it is a T28 from a skyline with a 60mm compressor wheel.

Ford and PSA have a turbo-compounded small diesel (I think around 1.4l) in one of their compact cars, I don't think it's sold in this part of the world at present.

I note in the Tweak/bm pic, there's a few bypasses. While it mite seem simple as a straight line diagram, doin' it for real and fittin' it in a given space would be a little more difficult. Any of those "better" pics available yet?

RED60 wrote:I note in the Tweak/bm pic, there's a few bypasses. While it mite seem simple as a straight line diagram, doin' it for real and fittin' it in a given space would be a little more difficult. Any of those "better" pics available yet?

Like everything they make, the BMW system is more complicated than it needs to be. It runs through about four stages of using a single turbo, two in series, two in parrallel and something else as well.

Yes it's going to work better than the simpler system, but they've got millions to spend on R&D so they'd be pissed if it didn't.

my last link wasn't too great

But this is what I'm talking about.



Shop page.

http://www.xtremediesel.com/index.asp?P ... ProdID=379

I thought this was a bit funny...

TWIN TURBO SYSTEMS

Super B Twin: Designed for high-powered 94-06 5.9 liter Cummins applications without cylinder head modifications, the Super B twin can easily flow enough air for up to 575 rwhp on diesel only. Add a BD Cool-It intercooler and a shot of nitrous oxide, and watch the power level climb to 800+! Great street and strip driveability, easy installation, and the factory oil coolers can be retained.

Only 800+ rwhp! Writen like this is a pretty poor rwhp figure lol

There's a link to an install manual for this, has all the parts etc then how to install it.

here's the link.
http://www.xtremediesel.com/manuals/1045330.pdf

The Nissan ZD30 used a Garrett GT2052V turbo (V is for variable vane, 52 is a 52mm compressor wheel). The top turbo in that picture I put up is a garrett GT2256V with a 56mm compressor wheel. It's from a mercedes 2.7l diesel.
I will be installing that first, seeing how it goes before adding the second one.

i assume that means the GT2256V is also variable, if so you will need some sort of controller and it does tend to make the 2nd turbo obsolete

in the pic i posted of the BMW setup the turbo's don'r really compound themselves so much. its basicly run one turbo then switch to the other turbo when needed. the whole point is to reduce lag and to have higher boost at low throttle. afaik it dosn't make max power any different compared to single turbo, at full noise the dual turbo is basicly runinng on the large turbo only.

the variable turbos are basicly an all in one solution.

The reason for compounding is to have two turbos both working at the most efficent point ie both say 15-20 psi each, this then gives you roughly 30-50psi at the manifold. Try doing that with a single or even a variable turbo. At these pressures you are flowing a lot of air, the secret in making high horsepower.

Andy

tweak'e wrote: i assume that means the GT2256V is also variable, if so you will need some sort of controller and it does tend to make the 2nd turbo obsolete

in the pic i posted of the BMW setup the turbo's don'r really compound themselves so much. its basicly run one turbo then switch to the other turbo when needed. the whole point is to reduce lag and to have higher boost at low throttle. afaik it dosn't make max power any different compared to single turbo, at full noise the dual turbo is basicly runinng on the large turbo only.

the variable turbos are basicly an all in one solution.

Initial control for the 2256V will be a simple wastegate actuator. Not ideal by any means, but it's the easiest way to get up and running.
Using the original actuator requires a vacuum proportioning valve and electronic control.

The BMW 3L diesel with the single variable vane turbo (GT2256V) put out 400Nm originally, now it's up to 440Nm, the same engine with the twin turbo pictured puts out 500Nm.

Quite a difference.
BMW 530d (and the rangerovers up to 2006) use the single turbo engine, BMW 535d uses the twin.