Outer Limits 4x4 Board

We've had a couple of cold days up here (Toowoomba, Qld) over the last week or so. This morning was one of them. The car ('97 80 series) was hard to start this morning. Normally I let it run until the glow indicator goes out, leave it for about another 10 seconds with the key in the 'ON' position, then start - it will generally start straight away without hesitation. I did the same thing this morning however it cranked for about 5 seconds without firing before I stopped. Repeated, was the same. Third time around it was the same, so I gave the accelerator a stab and it fired, but puffed huge amounts of smoke for about 10 seconds and ran really rough. Typically when I start it in the afternoon, or on a warmer morning, it starts fine. The only correlation I can pick is that when it's hard to start, it's colder outside.

I'm thinking this is most likely a glow plug issue. The plugs haven't been so much as checked since I've owned the vehicle. I will be checking the plugs tomorrow morning (I am going down to Moree for the long weekend where I expect it will be even colder so want to sort it out if I can), but if anybody else can shed light onto other potential causes for hard starting that would be appreciated!

What colour smoke did it blow? white/black/blue?

Hit the starter as soon as the glow plug light turns off. Waiting ten seconds your probably letting the air in the precombustion chambers cool down again (depending on how the preheating works on a 1hz).

If its still the same, grab a multimeter and check the voltage at the glow plug rail. Should be about 10volts I think. (depending on how good your battery is it could be as low as 9 or as high as 11.7ish) If that checks out ok, pull all the plugs out(or leave them in and measure the resistance from the top of the plug to the block, but you have to remove the rail connecting all the plugs first) and measure thier resistance, should be close to zero, and they should all be about the same.

If you dont have a multimetre to test them, grab a car battery and some jumper leads, and fire them up, they should glow red hot after a few seconds.

Also, dont let the guy behind the counter talk you into replacing them all, if only one is faulty. It could go another 200thousand before the next one fails. My hj60 killed its first plug at about 350thousad, I replaced one and the others are still going strong.

Smoke was definitely white.

Usually if I start it as soon as the light goes out I have to crank it a bit before it starts (not long). If I leave it a little after the light goes out then it starts more easily. In my vehicle if I turn on the ignition, I hear the glow relay click in. It will click out again after 60 seconds regardless of whether it's started or not, or how long the light was on for.

She's done nearly 315,000 so it's possible they've never been done.

I assume it doesn't have to be cold to test the resistance in the plugs, ie. I can do it as soon as I get home from work with the engine still warm?

thomasando wrote:Smoke was definitely white.

Usually if I start it as soon as the light goes out I have to crank it a bit before it starts (not long). If I leave it a little after the light goes out then it starts more easily. In my vehicle if I turn on the ignition, I hear the glow relay click in. It will click out again after 60 seconds regardless of whether it's started or not, or how long the light was on for.

She's done nearly 315,000 so it's possible they've never been done.

I assume it doesn't have to be cold to test the resistance in the plugs, ie. I can do it as soon as I get home from work with the engine still warm?

yep sounds like a glow plug or two have gone.

you can test the resistances at any time, hot or cold, just need to remove the busbar across them first.

No worries. Thanks for your help Shadow - I'll have a look at them this afternoon (hopefully) and will let you know how I get on.

ive got a spare set of 6 new Bosch GPT-220 glowplugs.
Purchased few months ago but never replaced mine as they are all in good condition.

If you want the 6 for $35 there yours ($17+ each retail)
http://www.gimmecarparts.com.au/search. ... gory=TP569

Im guessing they will be the same glowplugs in 93/97 ??

Good luck.

Make sure there the right voltage plugs. I dont know if the 80's have different voltage but the 60's do. Only a small thing, but yeah.

Righto, did some tests this afternoon -

Voltage at each plug, with the bar on, was approx 11.2V. I took the rail off and measured resistance. I think I had the multimeter set at 20K ohms (may have been too high), and it showed as being 2 ohms, on each plug. What's the tolerance on these things - ie. how sensitive are they to changes in resistance? Do I need to try again with the multimeter set to a more sensitive reading?

It was difficult to start after putting everything back together, too, but nowhere near as hard as it was this morning.

Thanks for the help thus far.

Shadow wrote:Also, dont let the guy behind the counter talk you into replacing them all, if only one is faulty. It could go another 200thousand before the next one fails. My hj60 killed its first plug at about 350thousad, I replaced one and the others are still going strong.

How do you know it was the first plug to be replaced?

I always replace them as a set, they aren't that expensive and who wants to fuck around replacing one at a time...

chunks wrote:

Shadow wrote:Also, dont let the guy behind the counter talk you into replacing them all, if only one is faulty. It could go another 200thousand before the next one fails. My hj60 killed its first plug at about 350thousad, I replaced one and the others are still going strong.

How do you know it was the first plug to be replaced?

I always replace them as a set, they aren't that expensive and who wants to ***** around replacing one at a time...

car was previosuly my parents. since new

Shadow wrote:

chunks wrote:

Shadow wrote:Also, dont let the guy behind the counter talk you into replacing them all, if only one is faulty. It could go another 200thousand before the next one fails. My hj60 killed its first plug at about 350thousad, I replaced one and the others are still going strong.

How do you know it was the first plug to be replaced?

I always replace them as a set, they aren't that expensive and who wants to ***** around replacing one at a time...

car was previosuly my parents. since new

Shit that's pretty impressive, i've had to replace them as early as 100 000kms!

One possibility http://www.bp.com/liveassets/bp_interne ... =firefox-a


Fuel News
During unseasonably cold weather some diesel-powered engines will experience difficulties
with starting. These problems arise from the formation of wax crystals, which block fuel
filters and lines. This fuel news aims to inform BP diesel customers who live in cooler
regions of the potential problems that can arise from using diesel during winter, and how to
prevent these problems.
WHAT ARE WINTER DIESEL PROBLEMS?
All diesel fuel contains wax. It is considered an important diesel component because of its
high cetane value. Normally the wax is a liquid in the fuel, however, when diesel fuel gets
cold enough the wax starts to crystallize (i.e. solidify). If the temperature is sufficiently low,
enough crystals will form to block the fuel filter and the engine can stop through fuel
starvation.
HOW TO IDENTIFY WAXING PROBLEMS
•
If wax has formed in a diesel fuel then it will block fuel lines and filters, it is visible as
a white / yellow deposit or cloud in the fuel.
•
Engines will be hard to start or will not start due to fuel starvation.
WHAT IS BP DOING TO MINIMISE WINTER DIESEL
PROBLEMS?
BP supplies Diesel fuel that is appropriate for the season. This is done by varying the cloud
point of diesel fuel depending on month and location. These are defined in the Australian
Standard AS 3570-1998 for Automotive Diesel Fuel.

80.Cruiser wrote:One possibility http://www.bp.com/liveassets/bp_interne ... =firefox-a


Fuel News
During unseasonably cold weather some diesel-powered engines will experience difficulties
with starting. These problems arise from the formation of wax crystals, which block fuel
filters and lines. This fuel news aims to inform BP diesel customers who live in cooler
regions of the potential problems that can arise from using diesel during winter, and how to
prevent these problems.
WHAT ARE WINTER DIESEL PROBLEMS?
All diesel fuel contains wax. It is considered an important diesel component because of its
high cetane value. Normally the wax is a liquid in the fuel, however, when diesel fuel gets
cold enough the wax starts to crystallize (i.e. solidify). If the temperature is sufficiently low,
enough crystals will form to block the fuel filter and the engine can stop through fuel
starvation.
HOW TO IDENTIFY WAXING PROBLEMS
•
If wax has formed in a diesel fuel then it will block fuel lines and filters, it is visible as
a white / yellow deposit or cloud in the fuel.
•
Engines will be hard to start or will not start due to fuel starvation.
WHAT IS BP DOING TO MINIMISE WINTER DIESEL
PROBLEMS?
BP supplies Diesel fuel that is appropriate for the season. This is done by varying the cloud
point of diesel fuel depending on month and location. These are defined in the Australian
Standard AS 3570-1998 for Automotive Diesel Fuel.

wouldnt explain the white smoke though.

and that would only really happen if he had fuel that was like 2 months old. They change the blend fairly early coming up to winter.

Fuel has been in the tank for about a week, so not old at all. The temperature isn't unseasonably cold, it's only just below 10 degrees C which is normal in these parts at this time of year...