Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Despite the instructions, I have to clean my K&N about every other week if I want to keep it in tip-top shape. Problem is the prescribed cleaning solutions are very expensive. Some guys use gasoline here in place of the cleaning solution, but still use the K&N oil for a finisher. Is using petrol really that detrimental to the filter? Any other cleaning solutions?

also what would a substitute oil be other than the k and n

i use petrol on mine but i hear it dries out the rubber

using fuels as cleaners will cause the main filter part to break down. You could try using degreaser thats used for cleaning nail guns as its suitable for plastics and electricals or just a strong mix of soapy water but you will need to wash it a couple of times to get it as clean as what the K&N cleaner does.

When i do really dusty work i take my K&N out and replace with cheap factory filter. That means the factory one is easy to clean just by bashing it and i dont have to clean my K&N after every off road adventure.

The little research i have done on oiling substitutes revealed little as far as being cheaper. I guess when a company gives you a 1,000,000km warranty they know their stuff works.

use a bucket, warm water and some dish washing liquid.

works a treat

then oil it using some light engine oil

Cheers

Have a read here:
http://home.stny.rr.com/jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm

If you still want to keep the K&N after that, clean with detergent only. Also - keep in mind that filters work BETTER the more dust they collect - so cleaning your K&N too often may actually be WORSE for your engine!!!

Oh, and K&N filters were responsible for the premature death of F1 engines during a race in Bahrain.

There is always one person that refers to that pathetic test... If you want to use a standard filter, go for it... If you want to use a K&N, go for it... If you want to use nothing, go for it!

Anyone else sick of that particular site, its getting a bit long in the tooth!

South wrote:If you want to use a K&N, go for it... If you want to use nothing, go for it!

I agree - to each their own.

What is pathetic about the site/test? - it is a test of various filters for the same application to the relevant ISO standard.

How is it getting "long in the tooth" - the info there is still as valid.

As I said I agree - to each their own - and plenty of people ignore the facts - that is how K&N, hiclone, slick50, all the fuel calatyst merchants, etc, etc, etc make their money...

let me guess, South has a KN Filter or sells them.

I prefer using the air filters now, better performance the Finer Filters ones I used for a while.

South wrote:There is always one person that refers to that pathetic test... If you want to use a standard filter, go for it... If you want to use a K&N, go for it... If you want to use nothing, go for it!

Anyone else sick of that particular site, its getting a bit long in the tooth!

Firstly i proudly use a K&N air filter and the performance difference was noticable straight away both in power overall and allowing the engine to rev more freely. Ive been using it for the last 3 years and only just removed the air flow sensor and intake hose upto the throttle body for a "clean". There was the most insignificant film of dust on the inside of the pipe that was only noticable when held upto the light. a quick pull through with a feather duster and it was like new again.

Now you could say that crappy k&n wasnt doing its job or was it the 2 cracks i found in the rubber hose. Who knows but id bet both testicals that if i was to remove the same parts on a different vehicle thats travelled where ive been but using a factory filter Im sure id find a dirtier intake pipe.

As for that report it said that people were donating and or purchasing filters off the bloke who did the test to support him now whats the bet they were duramax filters he was selling and it would be a very bored rich person who'd bother trying to prove a manufacturer wrong with no "other brand" gain.

And those tests are so convincing cos everyone I know now uses a denco filter - NOT

end of rant.

guzzla wrote: And those tests are so convincing cos everyone I know now uses a denco filter - NOT

From another forum - posted by Rick130 who is also on here:

FFS fella's didn't anyone read what I said when I posted that link to Spicers test results ??
I'll say it again in plain English

An AC-Delco isn't the best filter for your vehicle, it only tested the best of the cellulose filters in that particular test. Not really surprising as it is the OE filter for that engine. Another brand of cellulose fibre filter may test best on another engine.
Most AC Delco's available in Oz aren't even sourced from the US. Fact is that most filter manufacturers only produce a narrow range of filters in their particular brand segment, and outsource all other production. Even the biggest rivals and biggest filter manufacturers like Donaldson, Fleetguard/Cummins and Mann-Hummel buy off each other or the same outside sources to fill holes in their range. Example is the Donaldson oil filters I use. they are made by Champion Laboratories in the US using Donaldson media. The same company make the same filter for Fleetguard. I know of several Donaldson filters that are made by Baldwin, and a lot of Purolators are sourced from Asia these days. The list goes on.....

Look at that testing as comparing media types, not which brand is better.

If that test doesn't convince you (can't see why it wouldn't), I will soon be doing my own filter test.
If I can get the filters, I will be testing 2x K&N filters for a Land Rover 300Tdi (one cleaned and oiled and one with 20k km of dust), and 2x Donaldson filters for the same application (one NEW, and one with 20k km worth of dust). I may also test a Finer Filter (or 2) if I can get hold of one. Test will give filtration efficiency (dust removal) results, and pressure drop results (pressure drop is related to engine performance).

I have NO AFFILIAtION with either of these filter companies, and am just doing the tests out of interest (I would normally charge $250/hr for my time to do this sort of stuff).

grimbo wrote:let me guess, South has a KN Filter or sells them.

I prefer using the air filters now, better performance the Finer Filters ones I used for a while.

Grimbo, Yes I use a K&N, and I also use a stock paper filter...

The paper filter is from the spare parts of the manufacturer, it does not seal in the airbox, you can freely move it around. The K&N on the other hand is firmly sealed.

Paper filter after 15k is extremely dirty top and bottom side with visibale traces of dirt on the MAF sensor and throughtout the intake piping.

The K&N whilst fitted to the same vehicle is extremely dirty only on the bottom, the MAF has traces of oil but no dirt, and the intake piping is spotless.

Thats the only proof I need to continue using an oiled filter, my preference is the K&N brand...


On Topic, I would just continue to buy the actual K&N cleaning products, they are developed to be used with their own product. Just think of the savings you have made in not buying a paper filter all the time, and put that money into the $30'odd for the cleaning kit (which lasts me about 5 cleans)

South wrote: The paper filter is from the spare parts of the manufacturer, it does not seal in the airbox, you can freely move it around.

Well there's a problem right there.

Back to the topic on the top of the post... i used to wash mine in warm water(to get the dust out) and clean every now and then with the proper cleaner, the k&n oil used to last me ages you only need to make sure its all covered it doesnt have to be dripping

KiwiBacon wrote:

South wrote: The paper filter is from the spare parts of the manufacturer, it does not seal in the airbox, you can freely move it around.

Well there's a problem right there.

Spot on mate! Its the same for the afermarket paper filters available for the vehicle. Hence why the K&N provides the best filration for my application.

When i had my jeep i ran a K&N pod in the dusty WA gravel we have over here, I had no dusting issues.
I work at a mine site in the same area, they had dusting issues with the ryco brand filters and started using toyota air filters and im sure it fixed the dusting issues.

So looking at that K&N filters better than the ryco paper filters.

I used to clean mine with turns.... I make sure there was still alittle left in it after all the dirt was washed out then I would add the K/N finer filer gue.... I found leaving a bit of turns sitll fresh in it meant it would break the gue down a bit making sure it got into all those hard to reach places..... worked well for me for the 4-5 years that I ran that saught of high preformance filter. Bu tyes once again I was cleaning the F^%king thing every 3 -4 weeks..... The price you pay for good induction........My 2 cents.............. theres no easy way around it

South wrote:

KiwiBacon wrote:

South wrote: The paper filter is from the spare parts of the manufacturer, it does not seal in the airbox, you can freely move it around.

Well there's a problem right there.

Spot on mate! Its the same for the afermarket paper filters available for the vehicle. Hence why the K&N provides the best filration for my application.

It's definitely down to the superior filtration of the K&N then.

I have seen alarmingly dusty intake pipes from cars running well serviced and large k&n filters. I certainly won't use them. I don't believe that they provide adequate filtration from what I have seen.

I think that K&N might be fine on road cars, but are not suited to Australian conditions for 4X4's

Finer filters are a PITA and when fitted to a stock airbox actually prevent the airbox from working the way the way the manufacturer intended as all the dirt sticks to them rather than falling to the bottom of the airbox.

As an aside Ben, I guess that the best way of reducing pressure drop for a given application would be to increase the area of the filter(assuming the same filter material)? I am basing this on hiluxes Dad and I set up years ago where we ran a landcruiser airbox and gained measurable HP at the wheels against the hilux box, even when the hilux box had its inlet opened up to 3"

Steve

i use a non kerosen based degreaser then i use a sintheic spray oil similar to chain lube have done now for about 100k

Gwagensteve wrote:

South wrote:

KiwiBacon wrote:

South wrote: The paper filter is from the spare parts of the manufacturer, it does not seal in the airbox, you can freely move it around.

Well there's a problem right there.

Spot on mate! Its the same for the afermarket paper filters available for the vehicle. Hence why the K&N provides the best filration for my application.

It's definitely down to the superior filtration of the K&N then.

I have seen alarmingly dusty intake pipes from cars running well serviced and large k&n filters. I certainly won't use them. I don't believe that they provide adequate filtration from what I have seen.

I think that K&N might be fine on road cars, but are not suited to Australian conditions for 4X4's

Finer filters are a PITA and when fitted to a stock airbox actually prevent the airbox from working the way the way the manufacturer intended as all the dirt sticks to them rather than falling to the bottom of the airbox.

As an aside Ben, I guess that the best way of reducing pressure drop for a given application would be to increase the area of the filter(assuming the same filter material)? I am basing this on hiluxes Dad and I set up years ago where we ran a landcruiser airbox and gained measurable HP at the wheels against the hilux box, even when the hilux box had its inlet opened up to 3"

Steve

My sentiments are the same as yours.
But the easiest way to know if your current air filter is either clogged or restrictive is to stick a vacuum gauge on it. I've got the type of one that sticks at the highest vacuum, you push the end to reset it. They're fitted to almost all industrial machinery filters.

I'm running a 100 series landcruiser element in my diesel rangie. I made my own votrex housing to suit, it centrifuges dust out before it gets to the element with surprisingly good results.

Gwagensteve wrote: As an aside Ben, I guess that the best way of reducing pressure drop for a given application would be to increase the area of the filter(assuming the same filter material)? I am basing this on hiluxes Dad and I set up years ago where we ran a landcruiser airbox and gained measurable HP at the wheels against the hilux box, even when the hilux box had its inlet opened up to 3"

Steve

Spot on Steve - the larger the filter the lower the pressure drop if all other things are equal. However, this changes the "face velocity" of the filter (flow rate / surface area) - so changes the particle velocity and affects the filtration efficiency - but if your filter is efficient enough it shouldn't matter.

As well as lower pressure drop, a bigger filter gives you more dust capacity and longer between changes.

Gwagensteve wrote:
Finer filters are a PITA and when fitted to a stock airbox actually prevent the airbox from working the way the way the manufacturer intended as all the dirt sticks to them rather than falling to the bottom of the airbox.

I don't know how true this is - the OE airb ox usually has an integral "cyclone" - this spins the air around the airbox, and the idea is that the larger particles will have too much inertia to make the turn so will impact the walls instead. Automotive air filters are designed to retain collected dust - not to say some cleaning doesn't occur when you drive over corrigations

As i have said before, i have had problems with a k&N filter on the zook.

if u do really fine dusty areas i had massive carb dust issues where the std paper one was easy to buy and works good. never had any issues with it.

this was fine limestone dust.

I also like if u want flow take out the filter, if u want protection put the best $ one in there. i like the oem ones for zook esp.

Nic

i use degreaser for mine,
it works fine, i usually soak it in degreaser then wash it in warm water and let it dry overnight.
i use the normal K&N oil tho

Do you K&N users have any problems with them oiling and dusting your air flow meters?

not that i know of, how could you tell if there is a problem?

in the jabber there is just a pipe that goes straight into the turbo so there is no flow meter but in the trol there is one

ISUZUROVER wrote:
I don't know how true this is - the OE airb ox usually has an integral "cyclone" - this spins the air around the airbox, and the idea is that the larger particles will have too much inertia to make the turn so will impact the walls instead. Automotive air filters are designed to retain collected dust - not to say some cleaning doesn't occur when you drive over corrigations

My experience is limited to sierra and hilux, and with snorkels, but with finer filters, all of the leaves, bugs, dust etc seemed to stay stuck to the filter. the normal piles of junk you see sitting in the bottom of the airbox weren't there - it was all stuck to the filter.

following on from my previous thoughts - I think that finer filters are at their best A) not in an airbox and b) with a very large surface area... like in a race truck/buggy, which is where they built their reputation.

Steve.

Gwagensteve wrote:

ISUZUROVER wrote:
I don't know how true this is - the OE airb ox usually has an integral "cyclone" - this spins the air around the airbox, and the idea is that the larger particles will have too much inertia to make the turn so will impact the walls instead. Automotive air filters are designed to retain collected dust - not to say some cleaning doesn't occur when you drive over corrigations

My experience is limited to sierra and hilux, and with snorkels, but with finer filters, all of the leaves, bugs, dust etc seemed to stay stuck to the filter. the normal piles of junk you see sitting in the bottom of the airbox weren't there - it was all stuck to the filter.

following on from my previous thoughts - I think that finer filters are at their best A) not in an airbox and b) with a very large surface area... like in a race truck/buggy, which is where they built their reputation.

Steve.

And with short very intervals between cleans.

Hmmnnn Deja vu,

The last thread on the pro's and cons of K&N filters got pretty long.

To add my 2c to the actual question, i'd say stick with the K&N cleaning products. If you think it's getting expensive, consider the cost of how many paper filters you would have tossed at this rate. That said, you should be able to go a fair while longer before cleaning it, mine is usually a black sludgy mess by the time I get around to cleaning it, and the engine still runs better than it did with paper. Anyway, like they said before, to each, their own.