Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Took a few big hits last weekend and just last night noticed that the drivers front is rubbing big time at half lock on the back of the wheel well and the passenger side doesn't touch any where near it. The shackle angles are slightly different but this could be due to the "sierra lean". is it possible that I have snapped the locating pin that goes through the leaf pack and my whole front assembly has moved back an inch or so?

When i first put the new rubber on there were no issues at all.....

There also doesn't seem to be any major difference in measurement from the front of the axle plate to the back of the shackle. this is what has confused me. Everything just seems to be out of whack.....Its definite that the drivers front assembly has moved but I can't really see at what point.

May have bent the spring/ buckled the leaf if you've had a few hard hits. Hence the shackle on a different angle & rubbing on the tyre. That's an idea of what it might be, having not seen it up close Might be as simple as getting a standard sierra leaf pack from a wrecker and swapping it over if it turns out to be that

Possibly bent the diff housing as well .. they diff housings are made from pretty light gauge metal and don't take that much to get a bit bent.

my springs are bent a little just under the shackle plate but i couldn't see such as big difference being just the springs...will check the diff housings after work. what a PITA if it is....

dank wrote:my springs are bent a little just under the shackle plate but i couldn't see such as big difference being just the springs...will check the diff housings after work. what a PITA if it is....

If you have bent the spring there is a good chance you have sheared the centre pin as well .. WTF were you hiting that hard and why ?

I'll throw this thought out; Is it possible that the body has been bent of moved on its mounts? This could acount for the scrubbing, though the difference in shackles could be sue to some spring issues. Also this is why you wouldn't have much difference in distance between shackles and axles plate.

Anyway, I'd be checking all your body mounts for a sheared bolt etc, just to be sure.

Broken centre pin , Cheers Paul.

checked the springs before I went out tonight....drivers is bent pretty badly at rear mounting point. Very clear difference between the passenger and drivers side. Load leaves on drivers side are not sitting flush with the military wrap spring whereas the others are. I'm up for a new set of springs. Body mounts are fine I checked that. had an epic trip tonight...busted another CV....TWO in 3 weeks! Nearly beating Muginsmoo's efforts! 3 wheel drive is no good in almost knee deep mud....

well...passenger side is bent now...worse than the drivers side has to be the longer shackles exposing spring to more lateral loads....ah well

what are you hitting so hard that you are bending springs?

grimbo wrote:what are you hitting so hard that you are bending springs?

+1

Layto....

This track that has caused the damage is a thick deep muddy mess and the base is made up of granite boulders of varying shapes...mud needs momentum and when you mix momentum with rogue dislodged boulders its a recipe for buggered springs. I'm convinced that the extended shackles are putting more load along the springs when hitting a rock or bank compared to the normal length shackles. Also when i bought the springs two years back i wasn't planning on a winch bar and winch So i have approx 50kgs of extra weight on the front which puts added stress...Will probably go RUF now and whack my plasma rope on to take the weight back down to about 35 on the front. I was surprised when they bent but hey its my weekend warrior and i drive it hard. Thats what i bought it for.

cheers

Maybe heavier dufy front springs and stock shackles are wise, this will improve your approach angle but mostly, I think you should ease up on the abuse there Dank.

Sure, bent springs are not uncommon, but your car has limits. Yep, you can buy heavier springs ( with tight clamps and full length secondaries) but this will really only move the problem on to the spring hanger..... trying to drive home with one of these ripped off isn't easy. Also, when this happens, it tends to shunt the front driveshaft into the transfer and can cause REAL havoc- bent selector rails - can't get out of 4WD etc.

Your breakage record since you picked up traction with the simexes is pretty high. You are trying to most of the work with the weakest part of the car (front birfields) , and if it is getting jammed up or you are getting on it at high revs something is going to give.


If you weren't getting traction you woudn't be breaking CV's, so you must be trying to pull the car along while the back is well stuck.

My suggestion would be to pull the bar and winch to get weight off the front end, lock the rear diff and work on driving more technically rather than bashing your way though.

I never, go into a hole at more than about 2000 rpm in second low (6:1.) I always stop if I feel the front dragging or digging and try to back it up, again, at low revs.

This way, if I need to lean on it to get out, I have a nice clear runway cleared of slop to hook up on, and I leave open the option of backing out if I have to. It doesn;t always work, but then neither does hitting this stuff hard.

Hitting mud hard is just dumb - the maintenance is a killer (as you are finding out) and when you get stuck it is way further in and stuck hard. obviously, hitting something submerged is a real problem, and best not done at speed or with bulk wheelspin.

Seriously, if you pull the winch and bar and maybe get a small handwinch, you will approach your driving differently and generally do a lot better.

Steve.

I was surprised when they bent but hey its my weekend warrior and i drive it hard. Thats what i bought it for.

wrench, wheel, wreck, repeat!

Shackle reversal, stronger diffs and bigger rubber so you dont have to beat the absloute snot outa your little toy every time you pull the lever into low.

It's fun for a bit to see some dick out there wrecking his car attempting tracks that are way beyond the driver and vehicle, But after about 5 mins nobody likes long stupid recoveries over and over again especially when combined with mechanical failure.

If you want to contine to drive like this you will need to look at a couple of things, either mellow the drving style a little and have some mechanical sympathy for your trucks bit's.. or spend the $$ on making your machine more capable and durable.. (Mud will always cause you high maintence bills though, I managed to wipe out two T/case and one diff seal in one boghole)

I guess when I bought the car and did the standard first mods (2inch spring, 30 inch MTs) i found the cars limits after driving it for 2 years like that and really enjoyed it but got frustrated when attempting harder tracks when the others became easier.

So then came tranny gears, front lockrite and 31" Silverstone MT-117 Extremes.

The extra mods came and out I went trying to push the car again to its limits and have after loving the increased capability on doing the old tracks and reinspiring myself to keep driving and finding new challenges I have found my limit again after breaking two cvs, and bending a few springs.

For those of you that have driven with me know what I drive like...And no its not like a dick.... ....4x4ing for me is about finding out my limits and trying to extend my skills and knowledge in different situations.

For those that know bullock link trk in labertouche the bog hole on that i would never attempt as i know there is 100% no chance that I or many other fourbys would make it through cleanly....so i don't do it.

Gwagensteve and Love_mud I really appreciate your comments. I will see how I go with a heavier set of springs in. BFT has offered his services to help me build a pack suitable for my rig. WIth the steel cable gone and some slightly heavier springs, losing the extended shackles and probably having to do a Body lift to clear the tyres I think I'll probably have a much more balanced rig...Although I have been loving the way the longer shackles make the springs flex a lot nicer. Might go one inch longer and see how that gos and just bumpstop the front a bit more (i inch at the moment - with about 3 inchs of up travel).

I've always been a big believer of a quick self recovery and independance out in the bush. Thats why the bar and winch are there. yes the added percieved security of a winch will probably increase my risk of knowing that I can just "winch myself out" but I'd rather have it there then have to worry about hand winching or getting snatched out backwards as the option to go foward isn't always there with a snatch. I like the challenge of winching a car past an undrivable obstacle...its all part of it.

Thanks for your comments again. I have reached the limits of my rig at the moment and now will just spend some time rebuilding it....maybe locker in the rear or trail tough double toughs in the front... or airlock front lock rite rear....hmm got me thinking.

No worries Dank, and I have seen you drive, so I do know youre pretty sensative, but sometimes the situation gets the better of all of us.

I understand the desire to be self sufficient and recover quickly, but to me, a track winched is not a track driven. I never HAVE to get where I am going and always travel with a group. My logic runs like this -

If I am the most capable car in the group and I can't drive it, then we'd better turn around becuase there is no point winching/recovering the whole group though

If I am not the most capable car, then I can be recovered through the obstacle after it has been driven by others.

Having said that, an electric winch does make some things very easy, like pulling a heavy car back onto its wheels, or limiting the time a car spends in deep mud, but when you add up their weight, unreliability, effect on the balance of the car, cost etc I don't tend to think they are worth it, but that's just IMHO.

In relation to the CV's going - check that you are not hooking the tyres up on something (inner guard, bumper support bracket etc) before you look for more strength. It is possible to bust CV's with 31's, but it should be pretty hard to do, especially in mud. If the tyres are catching the body/chassis bracket etc, they will go easily.

Personally, I would airlock he back (or spool it if you are not daily driving the car, which I think is the case) before you step up to DT's as you will have to buy a new front diff when you do. (DT's require a rear diff in the front)

I would buy OME/Dakar HD front springs before a had a pack made up. If you damage the OME pack you can just buy another one, and they are still the best riding springs available IMHO.

Steve.