Outer Limits 4x4 Board

A mate offered me an EA Falcon for the right price.. FREE.
Has anyone tried using the TBI setup on a 1.3 or 1.6?
Is there any reason why it won't work?

ya might have a problem with the nozzle size, 6 cyl vs 4.

anrt they a 4.0 ltr Vs a 1.3-6 ltr

mrRocky wrote:anrt they a 4.0 ltr Vs a 1.3-6 ltr

Does that really matter ? If the oxygen sensor tells the computer to lean it off(IE: its too rich), won't it?
Ford use the same EECIV computer to run Cosworth Turbo Sierra and Indy cars so it must be fairly flexible.

want33s wrote:

mrRocky wrote:anrt they a 4.0 ltr Vs a 1.3-6 ltr

Does that really matter ? If the oxygen sensor tells the computer to lean it off(IE: its too rich), won't it?
Ford use the same EECIV computer to run Cosworth Turbo Sierra and Indy cars so it must be fairly flexible.

I reckon cold start, idle control etc will be screwy.

Steve.

Not 100% as i've never done it, but don't see why it won't work. EFI works in relation to it's needs, If the air flow meter, Or MAP setup senses it only needs enough fuel for a 1.6 it will only give enough fuel for a 1.6. At low revs a 4L would use less fuel than a 1.6 going hard. It just means that because there are bigger injectors there is the capability for heaps of fuel, if the senses only want a small amount of fuel (ie the requirements of a 1.6L) the injectors will only deliver a small amount (as if the 4L is providing enough fuel for low revs). Once again, this is just a thought as i've never tried it. but should be no diferent than putting oversized injectors into a worked engine,

Tim

oldcrusty72 wrote:Not 100% as i've never done it, but don't see why it won't work. EFI works in relation to it's needs, If the air flow meter, Or MAP setup senses it only needs enough fuel for a 1.6 it will only give enough fuel for a 1.6. At low revs a 4L would use less fuel than a 1.6 going hard. It just means that because there are bigger injectors there is the capability for heaps of fuel, if the senses only want a small amount of fuel (ie the requirements of a 1.6L) the injectors will only deliver a small amount (as if the 4L is providing enough fuel for low revs). Once again, this is just a thought as i've never tried it. but should be no diferent than putting oversized injectors into a worked engine,

Tim

Thats exactly what I thought.

I will try and explain better.

TBI only runs two injectors. As such, they are quite "large" (i.e high flow)but run at low pressure.

At idle, the fuel use will be somewhat less than 1/2 of the ford motor. The big, slow reacting (becuse of the lower pressure)TBI injectors will not fuel the car very accurately with such short duty cycles. As such, I would expect the ide to be poorly controlled and off idle response etc to be poor, (much like a carby) If all otehr problems could be solved, then yes, it might run when up to speed.

If you want to use this style of TBI, see if you can find some much smaller injectors.

Likewise, the airflow meter (pretty sure ECCIV runs an AFM?) would only be figuratively just off of its stop so the calibration would be poor.

If it runs a MAP sensor, then all the better, but I still see the fuelling problems as significant.

Yes, I am sure the computer has the capability to do the job, but It won't have with erhte right hardware or software to run that motor.

Steve.

Gwagensteve wrote:I will try and explain better.

TBI only runs two injectors. As such, they are quite "large" (i.e high flow)but run at low pressure.

At idle, the fuel use will be somewhat less than 1/2 of the ford motor. The big, slow reacting (becuse of the lower pressure)TBI injectors will not fuel the car very accurately with such short duty cycles. As such, I would expect the ide to be poorly controlled and off idle response etc to be poor, (much like a carby) If all otehr problems could be solved, then yes, it might run when up to speed.

If you want to use this style of TBI, see if you can find some much smaller injectors.

Likewise, the airflow meter (pretty sure ECCIV runs an AFM?) would only be figuratively just off of its stop so the calibration would be poor.

If it runs a MAP sensor, then all the better, but I still see the fuelling problems as significant.

Yes, I am sure the computer has the capability to do the job, but It won't have with erhte right hardware or software to run that motor.

Steve.

I agree with Steve. Have you considered a TBI setup of a smaller motor, such as a mazda 121. Look in the bible under Rhetts injection. Other option if vitara single point injection, but $$$$ can be scary. You can try it, as the stuff is free, but IMHO it will not be worth the hassle.

Layto.....

Imagine your garden hose with a spray nozelle attatched, you need to only give out 1 liter of water per minute with a fairly constant flow. Your not going to get a very good spray pattern .. whereas if you need to give out 10 liters per minute your going to get a pretty good pattern and reasonable control.

All the other sensors have been claibrated to an engine of 4.0 liters that can such down way more CFM of air/fuel mix than a lil old 1.3 will ever be able to do.

pulsar tbi also works well

lay80n wrote: I agree with Steve. Have you considered a TBI setup of a smaller motor, such as a mazda 121. Look in the bible under Rhetts injection. Other option if vitara single point injection, but $$$$ can be scary. You can try it, as the stuff is free, but IMHO it will not be worth the hassle.

Layto.....

Yes, I have considered other makes of TBI. The best price I can find for the same parts as Rhett used is $760.
I can't find a Pulsar/Astra setup anywhere.
Suzuki Vitara is $500+.

EA tbi uses a different pulse pattern at low speeds to give long enough open time to spray propely but not overfuel, it basically skips every second pulse in relation to cylinders, as the injectors are above the butterflies it works well
they are also map sensored so at any load point (IE throttle position and vacuum) it will inject enough for a 3.2 litre (thats all the EA tbi was) not a 1.3, then may go into limp home mode cause it thinks the O2 sensor is faulty and reading too rich

the throttlebody is good, if you use a different computer

want33s wrote:

lay80n wrote: I agree with Steve. Have you considered a TBI setup of a smaller motor, such as a mazda 121. Look in the bible under Rhetts injection. Other option if vitara single point injection, but $$$$ can be scary. You can try it, as the stuff is free, but IMHO it will not be worth the hassle.

Layto.....

Yes, I have considered other makes of TBI. The best price I can find for the same parts as Rhett used is $760.
I can't find a Pulsar/Astra setup anywhere.
Suzuki Vitara is $500+.

got my whole setup including dizzy harness cpu throttle body for $250. all up it cost me less than $500 to get it on and running.

1.6 swifts also have the tbi single. might be cheaper then the vitara

roc box wrote: got my whole setup including dizzy harness cpu throttle body for $250. all up it cost me less than $500 to get it on and running.

Thats great but it doesn't help me much Care to share the details?

Oscars wrote:1.6 swifts also have the tbi single. might be cheaper then the vitara

need to stuff around with dizzys and so on with swift tbi as it is a right angle dizzy... just spoke to a guy working on it now and he isnt having much fun

true that,

pics on the pulsar tbi?


the later model barinas (the ones to replace the swift) have tbi's too.

Forgot to add a MAP sensor would probably be worse than a MAF sensor since the 1.3lt would still have the same preasure drop as a 4l after each gulp of air.

the ecu you be thinking the engine was at a certain point in the map and dump a lot of fuel. (most likely flooding it)

MAP sensors are better than MAF no doubt if you are tuning an engine from scratch, the advantage of a maf sensor is it knows exactly how much air is passing regardless of engine size (assuming you don't exceed it's capacity)

A MAP sensor needs to be told what engine capacity it is. Then it can scale it's pressure readings against the RPM and work out how much fuel to supply mapped out on the ecu

So if you where at fuel throttle at 2000rpm the falcon ecu would flood a 1.3l

smileysmoke wrote:

Oscars wrote:1.6 swifts also have the tbi single. might be cheaper then the vitara

need to stuff around with dizzys and so on with swift tbi as it is a right angle dizzy... just spoke to a guy working on it now and he isnt having much fun

yeh the dizzy has corolla bottom pulsar top with custom centre shaft,with custom base which my mate turned up from scratch.almost looks factory

Santos wrote:pics on the pulsar tbi?


the later model barinas (the ones to replace the swift) have tbi's too.

looks pretty much the same as any other tbi nothing special.

when I did mine I fitted falcon dizzy. there is the only problem i can see. you will have to fit a crank angle sensor otherwise.

bru21 wrote:when I did mine I fitted falcon dizzy. there is the only problem i can see. you will have to fit a crank angle sensor otherwise.

May be a bit hard on a 1.3 litre 4cyl

No way dude, the other two plugs go in the exhaust to light up all the raw fuel spewing out the exhaust -

bru21 - I assume you ran it an another kind of 6 cyl?

Steve.

Gwagensteve wrote:No way dude, the other two plugs go in the exhaust to light up all the raw fuel spewing out the exhaust -

bru21 - I assume you ran it an another kind of 6 cyl?

Steve.

Thats where I was going wrong

bru21 wrote:when I did mine I fitted falcon dizzy. there is the only problem i can see. you will have to fit a crank angle sensor otherwise.

I assume this was on a Landcruiser or similar. Thanks for the tip.