Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I sidewalled another bl**dy tyre at Sundown the other week. This one a Cooper AT.
It also happened to be the week I saw the latest 4WD monthly dvd with Mr Cooper tellign hwo if I let my tyres down it would save my sidewalls. A quick phone call to their office in BNE had them muttering excuses fast. High pressures in sharp rocks tend to save tyres. 25PSI is fine for ride and grip, but exposes too much sidewall bulge to sharp slices. Lower than this - 20 psi can pinch the sidewall between the rim and the terrain.

I am interested to see how many people have had sidewalls fail and the reasons etc. If you would like to both respond to the poll and post details I would love it. The tire shops reckon they don't see sidewall failures, or repair them. Strange I have done 3 (my only 4wd flats) and repaired 2.

What I am after personally for the Cruiser is an AT with super strong cut resistant sidewalls. I dont want MT as the tread pattern generally has scalloped edges meaning bugger all rubber, making fast on road cornering chop the tyres out very quickly. If there was an MT with a square profiled ege blocks I would be interested.

Hmm, you're not asking for much are you?

20PSI is still "high pressure" in my book. I have never seen a tyre pinched between the rim and ground in a way to cause a failure, but I have staked 3 ply mud terrains and 36 12.5 TSL/SX swampers, that are supposed to be pretty tough.

I ran 8-12psi in all aff road conditions in my 2500kg Gwagen with swampers and claws and 18psi with 33 9.5 BFG's which are very soft and bagged alarmingly at that pressure.

A mud terrain with low void at the shoulder would be an all terrain.

If you drive rock with radials you have to expect sidewall damage.

Are you running an 8" rim? wider rims will tend to expose the sidewall more than narrower rims.

Tyre shops will not repair sidewalls in radial tyres. It is not safe. It is apparently safe to repair a sidewall to within 1.5" of the bead on a cross ply tyre.

Maybe you could try light truck tyres like 9.00X16's, these might offer the square shoulder and continuous outer lugs you are asking for, but I think they would suck off road.

I think the answer is two sets of wheels and tyres.

Steve.

I have pinched 2 x BF muddies at 18 PSI - one on Mudstone at Fraser, one at Big Boys. No sharp rocks on Fraser. Rim and rock meet making 2 horizontal cuts in the sidewall.

Drop into most tyre shops and tell them you want the sidewall vulcanised. They'll send it off and get it (UGLY) repaired for $30. It has to pass certain critera to be fixed, but it's fixed.

Paul

Gwagensteve wrote: If you drive rock with radials you have to expect sidewall damage.

I have driven over the sharpest of sharp rocks with my MTRs at 8psi (with rear locked and with wheelspin where needed). I have suffered a few scratches and very minor cuts, but nothing more than that.

I have NEVER destroyed a sidewall (but have been in lots of situations where I was sure I would), but was "wheeling" in the US in a truck that staked a Mud terrain on a pine branch.

2x 35 in BFG muddys 20 psi
1 x33 in BFg all terrain 26psi
sh it tyres for a heavy car GU wagon

2 x mtrs
3 x dessert duellers
1 x bfg mud
1 x bfg AT

Most of the above, except a tear.

Biggest pizz orf was when I staked a brand new one out in the Mallee scrub, miles from nowhere and still had miles of scrub to get through without a spare.

BFG mud, on a stick at Mt Terrible Vic at 10pm one night.
You know how it is, raining, water running down the ruts. ehh...

BFG A/T Flinders Ranges on a sharp stone on gravel road. Right
thru the (80%) tread.

No more BFG's for me........

Cut a couple of sidewalls and sheered off a few lugs at The Springs 4X4 park.
Some very sharp rocks in there. Mind you we had a ball playing on the rocks there so it was worth it. Dude I was talking to there also cut up a couple of MTRs there a few weeks earlier.

Teh poll only lets you vote once (bugger) so feel free to post details please. More details = more I can hit Ryano with when he tells me he see's "next to none" :D

done two tyres.

uniroyal muddy - tanami track -> not really sure, thinking a rock tore the side out of it

cooper st - darwin -> caught the side wall on a sharp large log end during a river crossing punctured a fair hole through the carcass

MTR.... rock slice at cityview

1 MTR, 18psi, staked, not the tire's fault.
1 MTR, 35psi, hole, through the thickest part of the thread block, in the mud, dont know what did it.

What I am after personally for the Cruiser is an AT with super strong cut resistant sidewalls. I dont want MT as the tread pattern generally has scalloped edges meaning bugger all rubber, making fast on road cornering chop the tyres out very quickly. If there was an MT with a square profiled ege blocks I would be interested.

Maybee have a look at the PROCOMP extreme M/T. Looks a bit like an
A/T with lugs (no scalloped edges)



Or check out these..........
http://www.jetzontire.com/theline/product.asp?id=16

me3@neuralfibre.com wrote:Teh poll only lets you vote once (bugger) so feel free to post details please. More details = more I can hit Ryano with when he tells me he see's "next to none"

haha

See you soon, bring a print out!
It's a minute perecentage of the tyres we sell that end up coming back with sidewall damage - 'next to none'. The ones that do generally had a 'foreign object' do the damage (staking, slicing etc). All comes down to what you are doing with the tyres and having a realistic expectation of what the tyre you are running on can do. Radial tyres are designed to give better on road handling, steering response and comfort regardless of what pattern is put on it. The more aggressive Radial Patterns generally do run a slightly stronger case - ie. 3ply instead of 2, running an angled ply, more rubber through sidewall and upper shoulder, Nylon Overwraps. However, if you want true carcass strength for off road, buy Bias.

THere is always compromise in a tyre purchase. To get better offroad strength and traction, the on road performance is going to be affected.
Come for a run and we'll have a chat.
Cheers,
Ryano

MUD EMPIRE wrote:Maybee have a look at the PROCOMP extreme M/T. Looks a bit like an
A/T with lugs (no scalloped edges)

We ran these at the OBC and punished them with no side wall damage. Except when we drove on one flat!

It is not legal to repair side wall damge in victoria on radials. This is because it is not safe!
Maybe the reason alot of tyre dealers don't hear of it is because alot of people turf 'em when the incur side wall damage and just buy a new one.

Cheers Dan

if your going to drive rock with a 3 ton 100 series on little AT radial tyres and crap like coopers what do you expect buy a second set of wheels and tyres for these conditions because you can not buy tyres that will do it all

rvh96 wrote:if your going to drive rock with a 3 ton 100 series on little AT radial tyres and crap like coopers what do you expect buy a second set of wheels and tyres for these conditions because you can not buy tyres that will do it all

bingo!

wish I could write stuff like this... always waffle on being polite

Steve.

one procomp muddy my fault to fast slamed into rut edge and sliced it on rock and staked it in teh same fell swoop!

wrksux wrote:one procomp muddy my fault to fast slamed into rut edge and sliced it on rock and staked it in teh same fell swoop!

That's what stuffed my TSL/SX - too fast, clipped a very sharp root- took out the sidewall (about 3" long!)

Steve.

Ryano wrote:

me3@neuralfibre.com wrote:Teh poll only lets you vote once (bugger) so feel free to post details please. More details = more I can hit Ryano with when he tells me he see's "next to none"

haha

See you soon, bring a print out!
It's a minute perecentage of the tyres we sell that end up coming back with sidewall damage - 'next to none'. The ones that do generally had a 'foreign object' do the damage (staking, slicing etc). All comes down to what you are doing with the tyres and having a realistic expectation of what the tyre you are running on can do. Radial tyres are designed to give better on road handling, steering response and comfort regardless of what pattern is put on it. The more aggressive Radial Patterns generally do run a slightly stronger case - ie. 3ply instead of 2, running an angled ply, more rubber through sidewall and upper shoulder, Nylon Overwraps. However, if you want true carcass strength for off road, buy Bias.

THere is always compromise in a tyre purchase. To get better offroad strength and traction, the on road performance is going to be affected.
Come for a run and we'll have a chat.
Cheers,
Ryano

Ryano, do you stock MRF tyres, was doing a bit of reading on the Beadell Tours website and a few others and they recommended them for all their tours as they are super strong? however, only availble in split rim sizes.

We do.

Personally I'm not a big fan of running splitties. You can get a tubeless 265/75R16 with a higher load rating (123 load which equates to 1550kg/tyre and fit to 16x7 or 8).
Advantages of the tubeless:
They run cooler.
You are able to do on vehicle temporary repairs, rather than having to take the wheel off which you would need to with the splitty.
They 'feel' a lot more stable on the road.
Tubeless rims and tyres tend to balance up better.

Hope it helps,
Ryano

Those MRF tyres look pretty tough - Santos run them on pretty much everything in central australia and I think BHP use them at Roxby as well.

I reckon they'd be cool in a 9.00X16

Steve.

Gwagensteve wrote:Those MRF tyres look pretty tough - Santos run them on pretty much everything in central australia and I think BHP use them at Roxby as well.

I reckon they'd be cool in a 9.00X16

Steve.

I run these MRF tyres on my rig and have done for nearly 2 years. I love them! Ryano supplied me with them and I couldn't be happier.
I've had them across the Simpson, all through the gas fields around Innamincka and all through blacksoil country around Dalby / Chinchilla. I've never had a problem except one nail going through one in the tread.

I'll be getting more soon to fit to my camper trailer so that all my touring/exploring tyres match.



As a comparison - I have no respect for the strength of tyres such as BFG All Terrains off road. Last weekend at Cruiser Park (Tough Tracks Weekend) I basically destroyed one of my BFG's as it only just touched a loose rock with its side wall. Needless to say, the sidewall has a massive cut in it and the 'rim protector' tore a massive chunk out of the tyre and now one of my pristine alloys has a graze on it! NOT HAPPY!!!!! Next time I won't be so lazy and change my rims over before I go.

I agree with Gwagen, in that if MRF's were available in a larger size - they'd be awesome!!!!!!!!

Anthony.

I've never had to replace a spare on a 4wd (despite driving on "crap like coopers") but I have witnessed a sidewall holed by pinching between rim & rock. A Cooper A/T, IIRC...

Is it my imaginiation, or is "All Terrain" a common factor in these failures?

-Scott- wrote:I've never had to replace a spare on a 4wd (despite driving on "crap like coopers") but I have witnessed a sidewall holed by pinching between rim & rock. A Cooper A/T, IIRC...

Is it my imaginiation, or is "All Terrain" a common factor in these failures?

Farther ran all terrain tires of some sort sorry cant remember brand on his stock Pajero 2000 model we did some "rough" tracks for the stock car such as city views moderate tracks and some moderate forest and rover park tracks... Always ran at about 37 psi never had a puncture in 2 years.

striker99 wrote:Always ran at about 37 psi never had a puncture in 2 years.

37 psi offroad? In all four tyres added together? Hmmm 37/4= 9.25psi - perfect!

Phew, must have done it hard on the rocks!

MUD EMPIRE wrote:

What I am after personally for the Cruiser is an AT with super strong cut resistant sidewalls. I dont want MT as the tread pattern generally has scalloped edges meaning bugger all rubber, making fast on road cornering chop the tyres out very quickly. If there was an MT with a square profiled ege blocks I would be interested.

Maybee have a look at the PROCOMP extreme M/T. Looks a bit like an
A/T with lugs (no scalloped edges)



Or check out these..........
http://www.jetzontire.com/theline/product.asp?id=16

I hear the jetzone tyres are cooper carcus is that true?

I hear the jetzone tyres are cooper carcus is that true?

I've been told that these tyres come out of the same plant as
the Coopers, but I seriously doubt that Cooper would allow a
generic brand to utilize their hard fought tech gains.
Jetzon and Eldorado are still OK tyres tho.
To answer your question .... I don't really know....

I ran bfg at 35" for a couple of years n they took all the punishment, no problem. Then went to 37" mtr still no problem pulled 1 off bead though, now run 35" and 37" maxxis creapies, also had 33" jt2, mt117, stt and st, maxxis 751 and 752.
We drive hard enough I have never done any sidewall damage in 6 years of comp style driving but have broken 4 valve stems off.