Outer Limits 4x4 Board

G'day to everybody. My Holden Drover is having some probelms with it's carby (which has already been repaired once). On a good trip I can expect 8.5 l/100km (or better) fuel consumption but on the way home from Mildura down the Calder Hwy yesterday (mostly flat) this baby consumed 11.2l/100km and then 13.1l/100km crusing at speed between 80 and 100kmh. I dont care what anybody thinks, coz these figures are appauling- I would expect this fuel consumption from an 7.3 litre F250! The reason I write in this forum, is that I want to know what my options are. I know that '4play Offroad' in Melbourne's east can put a 1.6 litre Vitara carby on my G13A engine. Will this improve or reduce economy and power? Is there any way of converting this engine from carby to efi? (I dont know, may be put an early '90s suzuki swift head on it or something) If this is possible, how much would it cost, where do I go to do it and what will this do to power and economy? Also, would efi be more resistant to water, eg when 4WDing in wet conditions, this engine with the carby often konks out when any water goes near it. It did this several times that other day.... Thanks for your time, I would apprieciate any advice possible!

hate to say but thats about normal for fuel eco out of a sierra. 10-11L/100

Think first that they have the aerodynamics of a brick and that hurts once u get up to speed.

Mate , I payed $300 for a 90 model swift 1.6 throttle body injector and wiring harness and sensors. I put it on a 1.3 carby 84 model. Had to buy a wiring diagram/Manual from jap land , $175 , had to wait 6 weeks as the diagrams on the net don,t have enough detail. Had to make an adaptor out of a chunk of ally , 25 x 65 x 140 which cost $60 dollars for two pieces just in case I buggered the first. Had to drill and tap it leaving only 1mm between bottom mounting screws and TBI mounting studs. Had to weld a nut on the exhaust for a sensor , then spent two nights wiring it up. With the manual for the swift it tells you everything about the TBI , ECM and sensors , how to fault find , output voltages and resistances for sensors. I actually removed the TBI from the car and wiring harness so I was able to adapt it into the suzi wiring quite easily. You need to remove the first pickup from your distributor so that it measures 150 - 160 ohms. Pay special attention to the ISC solenoid tubing as this controls airflow and it is not wise to remove standard tubing. Then you will have to upgrade your fuel system , Which will require say a VL fuel pump , new return line to tank or you could run a surge tank and cut your return line down near the rear. If you run a surge tank you will need a primer pump , a facet fuel pump will do but they are noisy , I think I paid $75 for the pump , $40 for VL pump as it was second hand , About $120 new , Vl fuel filter $20. Then you will need a surge tank , Say $100 dollars so

TBI wiring sensors $300
Manual $175
Ally adapteor $30
Facet pump $75
VL pump $120
VL fuel filter $20
Surge tank $100
Fuel hose , Clamps $120

TOTAL $940

No labour cost for any of the work if you can do all this by yourself , Now the engine will run upside down without a hiccup. It does run a bit rich , but I have a blower so I have another injector for boost so running rich doesn't matter to me , If your interested in more power engine upgrade might be better , as for water , no way , unless you stick your ECM in the top of your snorkel , hope i have answered your question , Cheers Paul.

4 play is no longer operating as a full time business. If you have been in contact with Joe and he is prepared to do the work for you, all the better, but there is no 4play shopfront.


IMHO fitting a vitara carby is a stupid idea. unless your car was running really lean, how is 20% more fuel going to help???? I believe that mostly the vitara carbies are better because they are newer and flow more fuel so the car runs stronger off road. I do not think it will be more economical on the road.

If you want to go EFI, there are a range of engine options.

Assuming your car is in tip top shape, you have 45 or 47kw.

You could install a Jimny G13BB motor - 59kw, (bolt in and to your gearbox)
An M13 jimny motor - 61kw, but no bolt in manual (jimny shifter is in the wrong spot)
you could run a G16B (16 valve EFI vitara or Baleno) 65-70kw and depending on version and age, this is either an easy swap or a really easy swap, but involves an adapter plate and small modification to the engine mounts

So yes, you would gain power.

there are other options like Vitara Throttle body swaps which can be done quite cheaply, or you could play with swift GTI parts etc. (75kw for a GTI, but all top end)

Here's the thing though.

Fuel economy will only change marginally because the amount of HP you need to push the car down the road won't change. fuel use runs at approximately 0.5lb/hp/hr. I messed around with some numbers some time ago and about 40hp turns out to be what a sierra requires to cruise. That equals about 10l/100km, which is pretty much what most people get, so regardless of the motor, you will get about that figure in the same use. Large changes in economy just aren't possible.

I can't comment on costs to convert, but I have wired a few EFI cars and it's not that hard. I believe 4play had a sparky do their EFI conversion wiring in any case.

I would go with a full engine swap rather than an EFI conversion. You will have to pretty much buy a whole motor anyway to swap the efi unless you go the throttle body route, which I don't think will be more economical either as it was designed for a 1600 and won't fuel properly in a 1300. I would only recommend the throttle body in an off road car.

I have never seen an efi car fail due to water, except once, when the computer was submerged, but we cleaned it and dried it and it ran fine.

Mate EFI is so far ahead of carby - just do it, you will never regret it.

Steve.

First of all, I'd like to know how on earth you got 8.5L/100km (11.7km/L) in a carburetted Sierra! I do however agree that 11.2 (8.9km/L), amd 13.1 (7.6km/L) are appauling for highway driving! A ford F250 would be much much worse though. I agree with Nic, 10-11/100 are more expectable.

If you do go fuel injection, and don't mod your car to the hilt (i.e. standardish gearing and tyres, suspension height etc), you could expect about 12km/L, maybe slightly more if you take it real easy. I would tend to agree with Steve in that don't bother converting to another carby, maybe give your current one a quick clean and see how it goes until you have time and money to buy a good EFI motor, and give your car a heart transplant. If you don't want too much extra power, stick with the G13BB, as this will give you better economy, reliablity with less extra strain on the drive train, and is probably the easiest EFI swap for a Sierra.[/u]

Thanks for all your advice guys. I bought this Holden Drover as a $1500 piece of shit (way too much for the condition it was in) in 2005. I put a second hand G13A engine in it but the carby that came with the engine didn't fit, so we had to get the original carby rebuilt. I got it a good paint job and panel beating, got some 235/75 MTR's and that is about all I have done. I closely monitor the fuel economy, and it is normal for this car to get 8.5 to 9.5 l/100km. The lowest reading I have ever got from this car is 8.1 l/100km (twice- both highway driving), so naturally I got a bit of a shock when the fuel figures driving down the Calder Hwy were 11.2 then 13.1! I know that the carby is on it's way out (again) and that is why I asked you these questions. Thanks to you guys I now have a bit of info and suggestions to go on...

I got a bit of a shock when the fuel figures driving down the Calder Hwy were 11.2 then 13.1!

I would love to have that mines crap.
Have you had a look at suzisports injection kit? I just had a quick look on the site and couldnt find it but it was on special about $500 complete I think.
Nik

I will have a look at that injector kit thanks. Also, what about a Weber Carburettor (i dont know a thing about carburettors, my primary car is turbo diesel )? Are they any good? I wil definitely look into that injector kit though

you want to chat to built4thrashing about the webber idea.. he was(not sure if he still is) running a webber on a sierra...

reckon its just a common problem with the sierra carb mate, some days they are good, others they are bad.... its the luck of the draw.

I just bite my lip and draft the semi's lol..

foolsp33d wrote:you want to chat to built4thrashing about the webber idea.. he was(not sure if he still is) running a webber on a sierra...

reckon its just a common problem with the sierra carb mate, some days they are good, others they are bad.... its the luck of the draw.

I just bite my lip and draft the semi's lol..

Well I and a few others, (nicbeer originally suggested it to me) have put Toyota 4k carbies on them.

Mine is rebuilt so not a truly valid comparison to the stock as I've had it with quite a few k's on it. But it does go a lot harder if you push it to the floor. Also a lot more simple, like idles a lot easier to adjust and so on. Not as much emissions junk.

Anyway can't remember exactly what the verdict was comparing the two, IIRC the Weber needed a few mods done to work well, with the 4k being a bit better down low with the weber being better up top. That just IIRC though.

I ran a weber for years. There is a BIG thread on them just search. But to sum up my experience I gained alot more power, reved from idle through to redline very quick. I did all the usual offroad mods, installed backwards sealed bowl with modded vent tried heaps of jets,lowered float level. Put a kit in it and had it apart so often I could do it with my eyes shut. I spoke to lots of mechanics and carb shops and search all over the web and still couldnt get it spot on. I did make it alot better made heaps of power with decent economy but it still wouldnt idle on steep downhills and hesitated on uphills when you needed abit more power.
Not trying to talk you out of it but this was my experience. I did get very frustrated but I learnt alot and had fun trying. They are very easy to work on compared to stock and besides the two probs I listed above it was ok.
Nik