Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I was hoping to get some feedback regarding patrol as I would like to buy one. I noticed a few threads regarding the reliabilbity issues with the turbo I think. A dealer has told me that this only occured on the series 2 and Nissan as resolved the problem.

Can someone please confirm this and if there are any other reliablity issues?

Im sure this question has been asked before but fuel economy is important and would like to know what people are getting strickly around town L/100km (no combined cycle)? Could you please specify what size rubber you have?

paulpaul wrote: A dealer has told me that this only occured on the series 2 and Nissan as resolved the problem.

the dealer is fibbing... You wouldnt give one to your worst enemy.

the oil way problem was fixed in the g3's but the problems with EGR and MAF sensor seam to still plaque them a bit. there are a few mods you can do to ensure reliability. a boost gauge and EGT gauge are a must.

Gordon in our club has Series 3 GU 3L Auto and has just blown up his engine due to the oil way problem, guess its not all fixed.

if your going for a 3L just remember, your playing with a hand grenade. buy it, pull the pin want wait for it to blow.

seen too many of these useless engines blow up to even trust the latest CD30 engines that are coming out, i hate to say this but the 2.8L diesel for its lack of power is a more reliable engine.

Thanks for the advice! Can I please just ask if this is something that you have seen on a regular occurance? Also could you please explain what oil way problem means ? And is this something that can be fixed if so rough order of cost and would it happen again if repaired?

The Q's may seem simple but I really dont know too much about Patrols. Its a real shame as I like the GU's and everything you read in 4wd mags like 4wd monthly etc suggests they are reliable but you cant always believe everything u read. Looks like I may have to buy a yota.

afaik the oil gallery had a problem where they got gunked up and the oil spray bar for the pistons stopped working. apparantly they moddified some of the oil galleries. i don't think you can fix it other than replacing the block. the nissian repair kit comes with a replacement block.

the motors die due to holed or cracked pistons due to overheating (high EGT's). naturally with no/minimal oil cooling of the pistons they get melted.

however there are motors still dieing from damaged pistons even with the newer blocks. some of these seem to have been problems with the MAF sensor which gives fasle readings making the turbo overboost.
also there seem to be issues with the EGR system. if it sticks shut the turbo can over boost. if it stays open you get high EGT's.
cracking of the intercooler cannot be helping things.

the other werid thing found is for some reason the ECU makes the boost drop but increases the fuel. people have been noticing intermittant drops in boost and big increases in EGT's. no idea of cause. its not noticable to the driver when it does it.

the main fixes for it at the mo that i'm aware of is to manully override the ECU control of the turbo and to block of the EGR.

the BIG problem is nissian is not letting on what the actual causes are.

what makes it worse is the amount of people who run the wrong oil in them, drive them exceedingly hard or poorly service them. more to the point the dealers who are poorly serviceing them. they are not the big lazy bullet proof 4.2's and cannot be treated as such.

paulpaul wrote:Can I please just ask if this is something that you have seen on a regular occurance?

drive it.

EGR valves are fitted to reduce NOx emmisions by reducing combustion temps, this is acheived by placing a non-combustible mixture(exhaust) back into the intake and combustion chamber that replaces air and fuel that would normally combust and create heat. It can also be used to increase ecomomy in the same way, how does an EGR stuck open cause high EGT's? Normal symptoms of stuck open EGR are low power and poor idle quality.

Joel

Both Bogged and I are founding members of the "anti ZD30 hand grenade association". I've been keeping a list of ZD30 failures (engine blowups only) on some of the forums I'm on, I suspect it's the tip of the iceberg.
Regards Andrew.

ZD 30 Engine Failures.

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PGS 4WD wrote:EGR valves are fitted to reduce NOx emmisions by reducing combustion temps, this is acheived by placing a non-combustible mixture(exhaust) back into the intake and combustion chamber that replaces air and fuel that would normally combust and create heat. It can also be used to increase ecomomy in the same way, how does an EGR stuck open cause high EGT's? Normal symptoms of stuck open EGR are low power and poor idle quality.

Joel

sounds like your reading the petrol EGR guide

the big problem with EGR (even cooled EGR) is it raises incoming air temps. increase in air temps = increase in EGT's. with the ZD30 patrol the guys on patrol4x4.com have seen 100 degree C drop in EGT's with the EGR blocked.

EGR dosn't replace fuel in a deisel. in a petrol it can reduce throttle losses hence gain in economy. deisels don't have throttle valves so there is no throttle losses to recover. there is no ecomomy benifet of EGR on a deisel.

if the EGR sticks open it simply poors in huge amounts of hot EGR heating up the intake air. also due to these useing large amounts of EGR any incease due to sticky valve means large amounts of soot are created which fouls up the intakes, egr valve and dilutes the oil. not good.

quite correct, poor idle and low power are syptoms of stuck EGR but the ECU can compensate by adjusting idle, boost and fuel etc. so it can just feel slugish like a bad air day. a lot of people simply don't notice.

tweak'e wrote:with the ZD30 patrol the guys on patrol4x4.com have seen 100 degree C drop in EGT's with the EGR blocked.

interesting..
one dude on EO saw his go up in degrees by couple of hunge - would look for the thread over there, but the search engine there is shitful. the 2 diesel joints I went to both said it would increase the temps too, but thats in the TD42.

bogged wrote:

tweak'e wrote:with the ZD30 patrol the guys on patrol4x4.com have seen 100 degree C drop in EGT's with the EGR blocked.

interesting..
one dude on EO saw his go up in degrees by couple of hunge - would look for the thread over there, but the search engine there is shitful. the 2 diesel joints I went to both said it would increase the temps too, but thats in the TD42.

i had someone asking about the same thing recently.

there is a few research papers being published on the net that support EGT's going up due to EGR increaseing inlet temps.

i'm wondering if people are disabling the EGR but not actually blocking it (eg ballbearing trick). if its stuck partitally open it will stay open permantly in which case EGT's will certainly rise. the 2nd thing is the butterfly system. if the EGR is blocked but the butterfly isn't you will get less air into the motor but still the same amount of fuel. this can cause the EGT to rise.

i would be looking at how they have blocked the EGR etc.

with the surfs they have noticed the engines run cooler with the EGR blocked which is a big plus for those crack easy heads.

Thats interesting tweak,I must admit my history is more petrol, to what purpose are the EGR's fitted to the vehicles, what emmission does it help reduce on a diesel?? To what purpose were they fitted?

Joel

the main one egr reduces is NOx (nitroes oxides). by dampning down the max burn temp to a level low enough so that nitrogen won't 'burn'. deisels run more EGR than petrols, exspecially the new ones. soot production goes up exponentially to the amount of egr gas used. i'll bet that with the new deisels it will only take a minor glitch for them to have problems. i've had problems with the EGR on my navarra ZD30, it would bog down and blow huge clouds of smoke on take off.

interestly i was told that some of the USA vechiles (eg catch on fire fords) deliberately run the motors 'dirty' so the particle filters can work properly. sounds werid, making pollution so you can clean it out. so what happens years later when it goes faulty?

EGR = one thing we noticed when we took mine off is that the amount of crap in the manifold where it returns was amazing! blocked by a fair wack

If it dampens the burn temp and reduces NOx as I though how does this make the EGT 's highr if the burn temps are lower.

Joel

PGS 4WD wrote:If it dampens the burn temp and reduces NOx as I though how does this make the EGT 's highr if the burn temps are lower.

Joel

it only dampens the peak temp. EGT is more of an average temp.

EGT goes up due to inlet air temp going up. basically your replacing nice cool air with hot exhaust gas. the drop in peak flame temp is not enough to compensate for the loss of air that would normally cool it or the increase in air temp.

don't forget EGR is usually only on at part throttle where EGT temps are generally not a problem. the problems come when the EGR sticks open at full throttle. not only do you get big increase in EGT but that hot gas gets recirculated back into the inlet making the EGT's go even higher.

with older low egr engines they just ran a bit poorly when the valves got stuck. but these newer motors use large amounts of egr and when the egr system goes faulty it can poor in huge amounts of egr very quickly.

with the patrol its a double whammy as EGR is part of the turbo system. if it sticks it can change the drive to the turbo which means the boost goes up or down. also the variable turbo increases the back pressure which forces more EGR in, which is fine until the egr valve is stuck open a bit forcing in excess egr.

paulpaul wrote:I was hoping to get some feedback regarding patrol as I would like to buy one. I noticed a few threads regarding the reliabilbity issues with the turbo I think. A dealer has told me that this only occured on the series 2 and Nissan as resolved the problem.

Can someone please confirm this and if there are any other reliablity issues?

Im sure this question has been asked before but fuel economy is important and would like to know what people are getting strickly around town L/100km (no combined cycle)? Could you please specify what size rubber you have?

Thanks Tweak, very informative.

Joel

awill4x4 wrote:Both Bogged and I are founding members of the "anti ZD30 hand grenade association". I've been keeping a list of ZD30 failures (engine blowups only) on some of the forums I'm on, I suspect it's the tip of the iceberg.
Regards Andrew.

ZD 30 Engine Failures.

Explore Oz Forum.

Daggs.
Blown_zd30-------------------------- 244K
Roly.
AJB------------------------------------196K
Pud & Barb--------------------------165K
Bulla. (daughters car)
Yakodi--------------------------------130K
Plugger.
JR -------------------------------------130K
Mike.
B & M. -------------------------------126K
Emackj--------------------------------157K
Fourstall2000-------------------------118K
Donald A-------------------------------50K 2004 STL
Old Johno---------------------------------------2000
Ron 2006-------------------------------152K
BushMark-----------------------------109K---2001
Ted--------------------------------------170K---2000
Piggy------------------------------------106K---2001
Rob------------------------------------------------2001
Trevmari-------------------------------141K---2000

Nissan Club members.

Graeme Wise. -----------------------72K
Ken Beard.
James Watson.


Outerlimits members

Manno74
Poo-trol-------------------------------66K
Wendle--------------------------------115K 2001
Rustys---------------------------------67K 2001
deanchristensen0001---------------31K 2005

Patrol 4x4.com forum

Mickyd-------------------------------- 2002
Waveriders--------------------------- 98K 2002
Redeye---------------------------------190K
Link-------------------------------------82K 2000
Pat3L
LesleyPerry---------------------------83K 2001
Scratch---------------------------------89K 2002
Stephan--------------------------------150K
JimmyB--------------------------------
Phyrebug (brother’s car)----------210K
Dirty Wheels-------------------------246K-------2001
Phoenie--------------------------------145K-------2003
Ramas----------------------------------231K------2001
Bigal------------------------------------
Martyn79-----------------------------96K
Extreme1-----------------------------140K
Revs-------------------------------------------------2000
Jack180-------------------------------80K--------2005
Mick013------------------------------157K
jwmr----------------------------------130K-------2001
GUhoon------------------------------150K-------2000
Kirbs----------------------------------150K-------2000


MSN Caravanners Forum.

Ddarren11-----------------------------155K------2002


Yahoo Group. Patrol 4wd. & GU Patrol.

Jtbattau---------------------------------133K------2000
Nomad441946--------------------------------------2000
Paul Julian-----------------------------255K------2000
Redeye141
Coight4wd------------------------------186K

Overlander 4wd Forum.

Dopey------------------------------------90-100K---

Even allowing for the fact that people like Redeye, and Redeye141 could be the same people on different forums, that's an impressive list. A very scary and off-putting list.
Might think long and hard about going up to a GU when I ditch this kettle (oops GQ) as that doesn't leave much option. My 4.2 has been a lemon, the 3.0 is a grenade, the 2.8 is underpowered, doesn't leave a lot of options with a Nissan badge on them.

My work Patrol is a GUIII ZD30 and has just ticked over 400,000kms.

The only problem I had with it was a split intercooler at 220,000 kms which was my fault from pushing it past 150km/h on a severely corrugated road in the Gulf. Has been absolutley bulletproof, just service them right.

We have a heap of others in out fleet and they have all been the same.

I did work for MTQ for a while who are the service agent for Nissan Turbo and diesel, at least in Victoria, and we saw plenty of pumps and turbos come through.

Joel

I worked for MTQ for a while and we were the agent for Nissan Turbo and Diesel, I saw plenty of turbos and pumps go through the doors.

Joel