Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hi all,

I'm looking at buying a hand/manual winch,and wanted to get some advice on what brands are good quality and the things we should be looking at when making a decision.

Any help would be appreciated.



Thanks,

Nick

i had a real hard time gettin one of the bush masters off my rig when it failed to pull her out one time. it was extremly tight and very hard to get undone. i wasnt very experianced with it but i would go something bigger and more enclosed next time. tho it was cheap..

If your vehicle has a motor and a battery then get an electric
winch. (end of story) Their so cheap now that they are comparable
to the tirfor style hand winch anyway.
Unless you know what your doing and you have the ideal recovery
situation they can be very dangerous.
You think about it, when we do recoveries with our electric winches
we make sure everyone is well clear of the winch, cable, vehicle etc!!!
Try being well clear of your hand winch doing a recovery!!!!! you wont
be going anywhere fast.
Hand winches are a good back-up to electric winches on remote
trips. If I sound a tad against them your right. I saw a pretty bad
accident with one once and I steer clear of them now.

If you must have one get a tirfor or a good brand of the tirfor style.

Just my opinion, I'm sure some people will love them
Cheers.

I have a magnum hand wicn h bought from ARB and it has got me and a few others out of a pickle a few times so great cheap insurance but as mentioned already, but an electric one as they are so cheap these days. I am about to buy a cheap vehicle one and will keep my hand winch as back up.

If it helps i paid $395 for my magnum one with everything you need and it does work really well and I have complete confidence in it even though you do stand next to teh cable....used properly and safely they do what they are supposed to do

Aye, Mick

If your vehicle has a motor and a battery then get an electric
winch. (end of story) Their so cheap now that they are comparable
to the tirfor style hand winch anyway.

Some situations only a Tirfor will recover you from, electric winches are good for the quick recovery but quickly S**t themselves when a truck is seriously stuck. I carry a big haul 2500 kg pulling hand winch, trust me it is good to know that the hand winch is in the back, I have seen electric winches fail too often, either in moving the stuck rig or simply braking down.

I have a brand new tirfor style 2500kg with 20m wire rope if you are interested pm.

Cheers

For a hand winch, Tirfor, only way o go.

Tirfor is what I have. It's been used only in anger once.
but unlike a front mount electric, I know I can pull my vehicle back upright after a roll, or pull it sideways, or backwards, or any damned way I like almost. And $395 is still a big difference to the "getting cheaper now-a-days" electric winches. It's a long way from an Aldi winch, and a mile away from a decent warn/brawn/known brand winch.
I've also been on enough club trips where solenoids have burnt out, or cables have bound themselves, etc to know that electric isn't always all that reliable just when you need it most etc.

However,
Stay away - a very very LONG way away - from the bushranger/bushmaster emergency hand winch or powerpuller style of winch where the wire is all stored on the unit itself in a pulley system. They're only 3 metres of wire, and can only pull 1 metre, then they have to be released and wound back out for the next pull.
I had to pull a zook 15 metres through mud with one. And after each pull I had to wind it back out, then have someone reposition the winch extension strap to allow for the 1 metre we'd just gained. If it was even that much, as the first part of the pull just took up slack and stretch in the system, and the vehicle had to be chocked to stop it rolling back while resetting the winch. The Tirfor copies have about 20 metres and can pull just about the full 20 before you'd have to reset them. If that hasn't got you out of trouble yet, then you're pretty deep in it and you'd sure not want to be that deep with one of the 1 metre pull versions.

Ezookiel wrote:Tirfor is what I have. It's been used only in anger once.
but unlike a front mount electric, I know I can pull my vehicle back upright after a roll, or pull it sideways, or backwards, or any damned way I like almost. And $395 is still a big difference to the "getting cheaper now-a-days" electric winches. It's a long way from an Aldi winch, and a mile away from a decent warn/brawn/known brand winch.
I've also been on enough club trips where solenoids have burnt out, or cables have bound themselves, etc to know that electric isn't always all that reliable just when you need it most etc.

However,
Stay away - a very very LONG way away - from the bushranger/bushmaster emergency hand winch or powerpuller style of winch where the wire is all stored on the unit itself in a pulley system. They're only 3 metres of wire, and can only pull 1 metre, then they have to be released and wound back out for the next pull.
I had to pull a zook 15 metres through mud with one. And after each pull I had to wind it back out, then have someone reposition the winch extension strap to allow for the 1 metre we'd just gained. If it was even that much, as the first part of the pull just took up slack and stretch in the system, and the vehicle had to be chocked to stop it rolling back while resetting the winch. The Tirfor copies have about 20 metres and can pull just about the full 20 before you'd have to reset them. If that hasn't got you out of trouble yet, then you're pretty deep in it and you'd sure not want to be that deep with one of the 1 metre pull versions.

And if you didnt have the little hand winch that would only move you one meter at a time where would you have been ??

love_mud wrote:

Ezookiel wrote:Tirfor is what I have. It's been used only in anger once.
but unlike a front mount electric, I know I can pull my vehicle back upright after a roll, or pull it sideways, or backwards, or any damned way I like almost. And $395 is still a big difference to the "getting cheaper now-a-days" electric winches. It's a long way from an Aldi winch, and a mile away from a decent warn/brawn/known brand winch.
I've also been on enough club trips where solenoids have burnt out, or cables have bound themselves, etc to know that electric isn't always all that reliable just when you need it most etc.

However,
Stay away - a very very LONG way away - from the bushranger/bushmaster emergency hand winch or powerpuller style of winch where the wire is all stored on the unit itself in a pulley system. They're only 3 metres of wire, and can only pull 1 metre, then they have to be released and wound back out for the next pull.
I had to pull a zook 15 metres through mud with one. And after each pull I had to wind it back out, then have someone reposition the winch extension strap to allow for the 1 metre we'd just gained. If it was even that much, as the first part of the pull just took up slack and stretch in the system, and the vehicle had to be chocked to stop it rolling back while resetting the winch. The Tirfor copies have about 20 metres and can pull just about the full 20 before you'd have to reset them. If that hasn't got you out of trouble yet, then you're pretty deep in it and you'd sure not want to be that deep with one of the 1 metre pull versions.

And if you didnt have the little hand winch that would only move you one meter at a time where would you have been ??

true, hence the name emergency handwinch, but you would still be there. if you want to use it all the time go the extracta from bushranger

Get the one with the electric motor....



















sorry.....I'm no help atall....!

love_mud wrote:

Ezookiel wrote:...Stay away - a very very LONG way away - from the bushranger/bushmaster emergency hand winch or powerpuller style of winch where the wire is all stored on the unit itself in a pulley system. They're only 3 metres of wire, and can only pull 1 metre...

And if you didnt have the little hand winch that would only move you one meter at a time where would you have been ??

Sorry, I should rephrase:
If you can't afford anything except a powerpuller type winch then it MIGHT be better than nothing under certain circumstances, and as useless as nothing in other circumstances, so if you can go the extra $150 then it will be the best $150 you've ever spent.

Had I been on a hill, or stuck on a rock, then even WITH the bushranger I'd still be there. It pulls less than 1 metre by the time it takes up any slack in the system, then it can't be released under load, so the only way we could release it in the mud was to push with 3 guys to release the tension sufficiently to release and reset the winch, and we had to chock the vehicle well to prevent losing what we'd gained even on flat ground. On a hill I seriously doubt you'd be able to release the load in order to release the winch, so if that portion of a metre had not got you free, then you'd be stuffed. The only solution I can see is to have TWO of them. One to take the load while the other is being reset and vice-versa. But then you may as well buy the Tirfor style as you'll have spent nearly the same amount anyway.

SO, if you're LUCKY you might get by with a powerpuller of bushranger, and it MIGHT be better than nothing, and it might not be. If you do buy this style then buy two - they are small and easily packed, and have their own carry case, so buy and carry two of them so that you can release the load from the one with the other.

i love my tirfor, they're bloody versatile and because of all the physical effort they make winching a last resort and make me think a bit more before driving into sticky situations.

on the farm i've winched our 5 tonne tractor up hill when i stalled it against a fence with no battery and we couldn't get a car in, I've lowered a water tank off from a 15m tank stand to the ground. Also ive never used one forwards on the 4x4. Always seems to be easier to go backwards and you can't do that with a electric winch.

but i would get an electric/pto/hydraulic if i had any money.

but i would get an electric/pto/hydraulic if i had any money.

Yep must agree, nothing is as fail safe or tough as the old Tirfor, but sometimes the time taken to get out of a simple situation is heaps where an electric winch would see you out in minutes.

But there is no substitute for cubic inches, which is the Tirfor in this case

Cheers

4wd Monthly did a comparo a few years back, and I remember the Big Haul had a longer handle, and advanced further with each stroke of the handle - something like 11 strokes per metre versus 13 strokes.

It's worse than that.
The big haul is 41 pumps per metre and the Tirfor is 44.
But less pumps per metre equals greater effort per pump.
I'd rather 44 lower energy pumps than 41 higher energy ones.

Longer handle = better leverage.

Yep, and I use it with the longer handle. The Tirfor comes with a telescoping handle. I have used it twice (once to lift a zook for a body lift removal, and once when stuck) and both times I used it on full extension.
I imagine most copies of the Tirfor come with an extendable handle.

Thanks for all the great replies.

At the moment an electric winch would be too expensive and require to much work to fit, as we have an alloy bull bar.

We are currently looking at the Big Haul model, it seems as this is similar to the Tirfor, but half the price (BH $400, Tirfor $750).

I assuming the Big Haul would work (and be designed) in a similar way to the Tirfor?

We don't plan to use it extensively, it more of a back.

Nick

I have a tirfor and a couple of them little hand winch thingies. The little ones are good for putting tension on things when they may be about to fall over.
The reason I like the tirfor is I know it will just work, under water, backward, sideways, stalled motor etc etc .. Oh and it weighs a whole heap less than an electric.

If I was into more extreme stuff or wheeled more alone I would definately get an electric .. but the tirfor would still make it onto the "stuff to take list".

bump wrote:...I assuming the Big Haul would work (and be designed) in a similar way to the Tirfor?...

Yep, that's about the size of it.
Similar system, similar abilities.
Good choice. I'd have bought the big haul, but got the Tirfor with all it's bits and pieces second hand on ebay for a bit less.
But that was in the days of the zook. So probably time to sell it off and get a Big Haul or the like that is a little higher rated for the Patrol.

Have a search around for 2nd hand ones. I bought an "Anchor" brand handwinch for $100 - back in the day there was Tirfor and 2 copies - Anchor and Elephant Looper

All 3 are basically identical - even down to taking the same shear pins. A mmate of mine has an "Elephant Looper". Both mine and his work as well as a Tirfor.

I have used mine a few times, it is a lot of work and takes time, but gets the job done. When you only have a hand winch, you will only winch as a last resort.

Sorry I like my electric winch & snatch blocks....As fo those of you that want to go backwards or sides ways you need to learn how to use snatch block properly

what about he cheapo $40 hand winches. not designed for 4wding, but surely it would be handy to have in the back of the car just in case.
i have been tempted to buy one, but havent as yet.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/NEW-4-TON-POWER- ... dZViewItem

sorry double post

changaz wrote:what about he cheapo $40 hand winches. not designed for 4wding, but surely it would be handy to have in the back of the car just in case.
i have been tempted to buy one, but havent as yet.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/NEW-4-TON-POWER- ... dZViewItem

They would work shtye as a tyre chock......and worse as a winch.
Donate your $40 to the salvos or some other charity if you really must waste some coin......

ISUZUROVER wrote:Have a search around for 2nd hand ones. I bought an "Anchor" brand handwinch for $100 - back in the day there was Tirfor and 2 copies - Anchor and Elephant Looper

Indeed, you can always find second hand ones "used only once". I bought a second hand Tirfor quite a few years ago and the things been used from vehicle recovery, tree removal, engine removal to dragging a shipping container around. It's been used for more things then vehicle recovery.

I'd go electric any day but my hand winch has paid for it self time and time again but anyone that has used one knows what hard work is!

changaz wrote:what about he cheapo $40 hand winches. not designed for 4wding, but surely it would be handy to have in the back of the car just in case.
i have been tempted to buy one, but havent as yet.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/NEW-4-TON-POWER- ... dZViewItem

You would be there all day to recover your car...

Besides that You would be highlu likely to snap it if you were bogged in any sort of mud..

Isnt general rule like if its up to the hub its twice the weight and if its up the chassis its x3 the weight of the car to pull so your 2.5 tonne cruiser just became 7.5 tonnes of weight to move.

changaz wrote:what about he cheapo $40 hand winches.

Read back a ways in this thread.
These can only pull 1 metre, and can't be released under load, so after you've pulled up any slack and stretch in the system, then moved the car the remainder of that 1 metre, then if you still aren't free, then you're stuffed. They can work on flat surfaces if you can push the car enough to take the load enough to release the load off them. Then chock the tyres, reset the anchor points, and repeat the whole process. They are next to useless. There are times when they'd be better than not having anything, but if you must use these, then buy TWO so that you can use the second one to take the load off the first one while you reset it, and then vice-versa.