Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Got pics of the surge tank I Tiged up.
What do you think and how much would people pay to have one made??
Fully Stainless Steel...

Good to see you used a coaster...............

Ben

The going rate seems to be $90 on ebay if that helps at all.

If its thin walled tube use 90 degree fittings to reduse vibration and posable stress fatigue, should do the job, if the feet are only single point contact could also fatigue, stainless is a barsted for cracking under vibration, but I dont think you'll have a problem on the lux. What capacity is it? the welding looks tidy enough, good to see some one that pickels n buffs

Could you make a square/rectangle one instead of a round one? I know they are nearly always round, but I'd prefer a rectangular cross section. I honestly think you'd sell more that way too since everyone else is selling round ones!

chimpboy wrote:Could you make a square/rectangle one instead of a round one? I know they are nearly always round, but I'd prefer a rectangular cross section. I honestly think you'd sell more that way too since everyone else is selling round ones!

They are round for a reason. Thats why they call them a swirl pot. Its to keep the fuel constantly moving and not heating up.

RUFF wrote:

chimpboy wrote:Could you make a square/rectangle one instead of a round one? I know they are nearly always round, but I'd prefer a rectangular cross section. I honestly think you'd sell more that way too since everyone else is selling round ones!

They are round for a reason. Thats why they call them a swirl pot. Its to keep the fuel constantly moving and not heating up.

I'm sorry, but that is right up there with hiclones imho.

I thought that the surge tanks were there just to keep a constant supply of fuel to the engine even while the tank is at low levels hence preventing fuel surge.

That's not a surge tank.






















This is a surge tank

Did you make that Awill... and if so how much for one?

I would actually kinda like one like this, but only need four fittings:

chimpboy wrote:Did you make that Awill... and if so how much for one?

I would actually kinda like one like this, but only need four fittings:

Yep I built that one, and I can build them any shape you like within reason. We tend to get some odd shaped ones required for the circuit racing guys where they have a space X times X and it "has to fit here".
Often we'll build them to specifications from bent up cardboard patterns supplied by the customer, It's often easier this way.
Regards Andrew.

i would be interested in one for the zook when i go to EFI.
looks like a good job mate i am impressed!

I think you will find a lot of people make them round as you can just cut some pipe up and cap it. Less work then folding and welding.

i think the idea behind swirl pot was to make the fuel swirl which helps get any air out of the fuel. naturally that would spend on size/volume of pot and speed of pumps.

those off shaped tanks with high volume pumps might find they are caveatting the fuel inside the tank...ie mixing more air into the fuel.

only thing to keep in mind is on high fuel pressure motors is the heat of the returning fuel. try not to get hot fuel mixing in to much with the cooler fuel. this would be very important on common rail diesels (check location for fuel cooler).

tweak'e wrote:i think the idea behind swirl pot was to make the fuel swirl which helps get any air out of the fuel. naturally that would spend on size/volume of pot and speed of pumps.
those off shaped tanks with high volume pumps might find they are caveatting the fuel inside the tank...ie mixing more air into the fuel.
only thing to keep in mind is on high fuel pressure motors is the heat of the returning fuel. try not to get hot fuel mixing in to much with the cooler fuel. this would be very important on common rail diesels (check location for fuel cooler).

Guy's you really have to forget the whole "swirl pot" terminology, the single reason for "surge tanks" is to provide a head of fuel to ensure that no fuel starvation and a possible engine "lean out" occurs.
As for the "hot fuel" problem, there is no problem. Zoom magazine last year did a test to measure fuel temps in surge tanks and fuel tanks to see what increase in temps the hot fuel from the fuel rails would increase the tanks and no significant temp increases were noted.
The only time we worry about "swirling" a liquid to remove air bubbles is in dry sump applications where the scavenge pump picks up air and oil at the same time or for some power steering modifications we do for the Sprintcars we work on.
Regards Andrew.

awill4x4 wrote:

tweak'e wrote:i think the idea behind swirl pot was to make the fuel swirl which helps get any air out of the fuel. naturally that would spend on size/volume of pot and speed of pumps.
those off shaped tanks with high volume pumps might find they are caveatting the fuel inside the tank...ie mixing more air into the fuel.
only thing to keep in mind is on high fuel pressure motors is the heat of the returning fuel. try not to get hot fuel mixing in to much with the cooler fuel. this would be very important on common rail diesels (check location for fuel cooler).

Guy's you really have to forget the whole "swirl pot" terminology, the single reason for "surge tanks" is to provide a head of fuel to ensure that no fuel starvation and a possible engine "lean out" occurs.
As for the "hot fuel" problem, there is no problem. Zoom magazine last year did a test to measure fuel temps in surge tanks and fuel tanks to see what increase in temps the hot fuel from the fuel rails would increase the tanks and no significant temp increases were noted.
The only time we worry about "swirling" a liquid to remove air bubbles is in dry sump applications where the scavenge pump picks up air and oil at the same time or for some power steering modifications we do for the Sprintcars we work on.
Regards Andrew.

yes i'm well aware of surge tanks. the whole reason for surge tanks was to stop fuel staveing due to the main tank pumping air instead of fuel. it would make sence that you try to remove any air that gets mixed in with the fuel otherwise you can be injecting in aerated fuel. mind you with decent fuel cells it shouldn't be a problem, unless of corse you dealing with a standard tank that has a poor fuel pickup.

fuel heat..... i think there is a reason some manafactures are fitting fuel coolers onto deisel vechiles. its not be a problem with a lot of petrol vechiles as they run such low fuel pressure, tho i'm not sure what pressure the DI petrols run.

can u get a "inline" surge tank? as in may fit in the chassis or similar and hose and a hose out etc.

trying to work out where i can mount one in the zook. either that or trying to use a primer pump(Carby lift pump) before the high pressure pump tp supply more constant flow.

Nic

nicbeer wrote:can u get a "inline" surge tank? as in may fit in the chassis or similar and hose and a hose out etc.

trying to work out where i can mount one in the zook. either that or trying to use a primer pump(Carby lift pump) before the high pressure pump tp supply more constant flow.

Nic

They are always inline, as in they go between the normal fuel tank and the motor. They can pretty much go anywhere in between but normally go in the boot or the engine bay. Wherever the surge tank is, that is where the efi pump should go though.

nicbeer wrote:can u get a "inline" surge tank? as in may fit in the chassis or similar and hose and a hose out etc.

inline as in liying down flat rather than being upright? never seen one and i doubt it as it still uses gavity for the fuel to settle at the bottom of the tank.

tweak'e wrote:

nicbeer wrote:can u get a "inline" surge tank? as in may fit in the chassis or similar and hose and a hose out etc.

inline as in liying down flat rather than being upright? never seen one and i doubt it as it still uses gavity for the fuel to settle at the bottom of the tank.

Ah, I didn't read the question that way but I see what you mean. I agree they have to be vertical/upright with the high pressure pump pickup at the bottom in order to serve their purpose.

kool, was wondering on that one. i'll have another look under the zook for a space.

looking like i will go for a primer pump before main instead of a surge tank for space reasons.

Can anyone confirm that when doing or looking at stuff above that pressure is not that important to match but flow rate is (ie one can be 5psi and the other 40psi but both flow 50lt/h)

Nic

Mine (Sierra) is mounted to the under-floor behind the seats. Plentry of room and well out of the way.

Click to enlarge.

WRXZook wrote:Mine (Sierra) is mounted to the under-floor behind the seats. Plentry of room and well out of the way.

Click to enlarge.

nice, i take it thats a coily or custom?

i will have a look at that way as well. going to get a lift pump at least and then look at tanks. i have a habit of ripping things under the chassis so have to be well secured and all that.

Nic

chimpboy wrote:They are always inline, as in they go between the normal fuel tank and the motor. They can pretty much go anywhere in between but normally go in the boot or the engine bay. Wherever the surge tank is, that is where the efi pump should go though.

Keeping things legal here....

Not allowed in the engine bay without alot of heatsheilding and general screwing around.

Not allowed in the boot with out being in its own fully sealed box vented to the atmosphere.

Dont shoot me, thats what the engineer told me when I consulted him 6 months or so ago!

Simon

excelent breather tank mate would pay big dollars for ,do you sell them