Outer Limits 4x4 Board

ok this maight be a bit hard to understand but here goes:

Take a hilux and remove the cab.

now imagine the chassis as a rear engine type (engine still in the same place). So the rear of the chassis is the front. and the front is the rear, ok

swap the diffs F to R and R to F. 4 link Rear 3 link Front

now because with the engine in the rear the rotation will be anti-clockwise, to suit this the 3rd's are to be spun 180. making a hi-pinion front running on the strong side of the c/wheel, and a hi-pinion rear running on the weak side of the c/wheel.

should be able to put a 80 series hi-pinion front into the rear to make it a low pinion running on the strong side.

put cab back on, rear/mid engine hilux.


a Q: can i widen the front diff by using 2 long side axles (how much longer is a long side than a short side?) that would put the 3rd in the centre.

Q2: have i got my thinking correct or am i way off

Bugger me your keen, and the point of doing this is?
But anyway goodluck, all I know is
short- 385mm
long- 795mm


Dan

Point: taking over my old man's buisness next year, good size mechanic w'shop, need a project.

something different to see what i can do and come up with and see if it all works well. also 1uz with extractors straight out the back will be sweeet
thanks for the axle lengths, that would make it 16.5" wider than stock so 75"+ i think that is fullsize dana60 territory?

wouldnt it be easier to mount the the motor at the back? then dont have to muck about with the suspension and steering. To get things spinning the right way you could if your keen rebuild the motor to spin the opposite direction. Or do as you mentioned with the diffs

um yup leave the cab on and move the engine and box...

flip your diffs upside down then cut and rotate your front knuckles...

easier...

This thread might give you some ideas

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=555900

yeah Richo i have been watching the pirate TT hilux. He has gone all out with everything, i just wanna go half way.

i really want a mid mount so the chassis will stay facing the right way.

can't i just unbolt the 3rd and turn it 180, that would be alot easy than cutting and rewelding knuckles.

suspension and steering are going to be changed anyway so that's no biggy.

ok new list:

1: mount 1uz behing cab, auto with divorced (maybe) T/C
2: rotate diff centres, driveshafts ect.
3: get it all running and working well
4: mod susp. steering rollcage ect.

Wanna see it done and it'd be different thats for sure

if your going to use hilux diffs you can flip the centre, but you will need to weld up the holes and redrill and tap the three studs on each side of the housing if you know what i mean? The top and bottom three studs will line up... if you have a housing and diff out youll see what i mean if you try it. From memory the axles should line up in the right position.

edit: youll also need to notch out the housing for clearance of the crown wheel when you flip it.

yeah i gotcha. i will just flip the knuckles as i will be replacing the axle tube anyway.

dont forget offsets for out puts what tranfer are you going as front is on right side and rear is center so rear best way would be cruiser housing flipped to get the offset and rotaion direction front theres no center front diff that i no of hope this makes sense i would use a cruiser transfer as offset offset then just flip housing and rotate knuckels

wanna: i am using two long axles to widen the front diff, which will put the 3rd in the middle.

may use a long side off a 75 series so i can widen and offset the rear 3rd aswell.

if i run a divorced transfer (hilux till it breaks) i can run it on either side.

Not realy understanding why rear mounting the engine would be a problem with the direction of rotation as the 4x4's have two diff's with the pinions facing each other it does'nt matter if the engine faces forwards or backwards it will still drive the same.

your only chance is to just get a hilux and put two lockers in it and drive it around for a while

the goannaoffroad post above me is laughable!!!

as for putting a longside axle in, it will give you over 12" of width (waste of space, look way funky)

the high pinion in the rear will NOT hold up... run a H260

goannaoffroad wrote:Not realy understanding why rear mounting the engine would be a problem with the direction of rotation as the 4x4's have two diff's with the pinions facing each other it does'nt matter if the engine faces forwards or backwards it will still drive the same.

You try it and tell me how you go

5 reverse gears yee haa only 1 forward

bj on roids wrote:as for putting a longside axle in, it will give you over 12" of width (waste of space, look way funky)

the high pinion in the rear will NOT hold up... run a H260

well it won't be streetable so bring on the FUNKAY

H260, just gotta find one. running 6" wheel spacers to match the front

i thought the dana 60"s were over 70" wide

Lots of mud racers had rear mount engines back when I was racing but then WTF would I know???????

goannaoffroad wrote:Lots of mud racers had rear mount engines back when I was racing but then WTF would I know???????

So you still beleive if you fit the motor in the back and dont flip the diffs everything will still work as it should and you will still have 5 forward gears and 1 reverse?

goannaoffroad wrote:Lots of mud racers had rear mount engines back when I was racing but then WTF would I know???????

clearly you never looked very closely

its simple, think about it, the tailshafts are turning the wrong way

unless the motor is still facing forwards. but that's not what we're talking about here

Tomolux wrote:unless the motor is still facing forwards. but that's not what we're talking about here

im lost now....

what are you doing?

mid mounting the engine?
or rear mounting the engine?

ok, mid mount just behind cab, but the motor will be facing backwards.
ie. fan facing the rear, flywheel facing the front of the chassis.

I will type this slowly as I now realise some of you can't read real fast .
If an engine is rear mounted so that the front of the engine faces the rear of the vehicle the crank shaft still spins the same way ,with me so far?
both the front and rear drive shafts turn in the same direction so both diffs run the same way IT DOESNT MATTER WHICH WAY THE ENGINE FACES
you could mount it side ways and mount right angle drive units off the output flanges it would still move forward in the forward gears and backwards in the reverse gears.
Because the crank only spins one way, same way both ends it doesn't make any difference which way around it is.
Have any of you brain surgeons ever seen a fork lift? Guess what the motor sits backwards and the machine drives forwards.
Seen a big bus(in the trade there known as coaches)?the motors rear mounted.
It also doesn't matter which way the pinion flange points, up, down ,front back or "flipped" in a forward gear it will still drive off the same side of the teeth.
If you were to screw number plates to your vehicle using a cordless drill would you have the drill set on forwards for the front plate then put it in reverse to screw the rear plate on ?????
I could go on but I won't .I don't mind being proven wrong by those that KNOW what there on about but before you rocket scientists shit can someones reply have a good think and base your comments on fact and commonsense NOT BULLSHITE

goannaoffroad wrote:I will type this slowly as I now realise some of you can't read real fast .
If an engine is rear mounted so that the front of the engine faces the rear of the vehicle the crank shaft still spins the same way ,with me so far?
both the front and rear drive shafts turn in the same direction so both diffs run the same way IT DOESNT MATTER WHICH WAY THE ENGINE FACES
you could mount it side ways and mount right angle drive units off the output flanges it would still move forward in the forward gears and backwards in the reverse gears.
Because the crank only spins one way, same way both ends it doesn't make any difference which way around it is.
Have any of you brain surgeons ever seen a fork lift? Guess what the motor sits backwards and the machine drives forwards.
Seen a big bus(in the trade there known as coaches)?the motors rear mounted.
It also doesn't matter which way the pinion flange points, up, down ,front back or "flipped" in a forward gear it will still drive off the same side of the teeth.
If you were to screw number plates to your vehicle using a cordless drill would you have the drill set on forwards for the front plate then put it in reverse to screw the rear plate on ?????
I could go on but I won't .I don't mind being proven wrong by those that KNOW what there on about but before you rocket scientists shit can someones reply have a good think and base your comments on fact and commonsense NOT BULLSHITE

bwahahahahhahahahhaha

dude your right in the way that it turns the same way... but your forgetting if your spinning the engine around (fan facing the rear) that in turn makes it reverse rotatation..


ok a little test for you to see for your self...

grab a toy/ pen or anything... spin it... now turn it end for end and spin it... does it spin the same way... no it spins the opposite way because you have turned it around...

cheers mark.

Getting back to my original post, the diff pinion flanges face each other so it doesn't matter which way the engine sits.

goannaoffroad wrote:Getting back to my original post, the diff pinion flanges face each other so it doesn't matter which way the engine sits.

ok bud.... um have to ask... have you ever built one?

and if so how the hell did you make it go the right way with more than one gear?


no offence bud just asking...

Yes mud 4 b I have and I think you've woken up to my silly game I love this forum throw the line in and you'll always get a bite.
Bwahahahahahahahahahha

Sounds an awesome idea and will be very interested to see how it all go's, definately cut out all the problems of trying to fit big motors in that small engine bay, only thing is, how do you get around it then becoming front wheel drive, with the rear becoming the assist, or can you use transfers to still retain the rear wheel drive?, think that makes sense, good luck,
haha, sounds like your covering your ass "goannaoffroad".
sure talked alot of shit to prove what??
Think you may have just worked out you had no clue

Maybe run a rear diconect(which will now be the front) and for general drive it'll just stay in 4H with the disconect it will just run the rear diff(old front) you with my thinking