Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I've been told that i will need to get some alpine diesel or an addeitive or something like that if i'm driving up to, and in the snow...

Does anyone know if this is true or not? If so, where can i get this stuff

You will find that every servo in an area that would get cold enough for you to require Alpine diesel will be selling it well and truly by now.
During the colder weather there is an additive put into diesel during refinement to stop it from 'gelling'. In sub zero climates the diesel turns to jelly basically and wont be able to be drawn through the fuel lines.
Just fill up close to the snow and you'll be right.
Cheers Dan

Grab a bottle of Chemtech Dieselpower... has the anti-geling/iceing additive in it. Most other off the shelf additives will contain it, read the back of the bottle.

As said, any servo near the snow will have alpine diesel at the bowser, or will be able to recommend an additive for you (however it might be more expensive than buying it from supercheap in melbourne).

winter mix is 70% diesel 30% heating oil.....easy to mix yourself but as mentioned servo's in the area will sell winter/alpine mix.

you may need to put some cardboard or something in front of your radiator so the diesel gets to operating temp (depending of vintage of your vehicle)

How cold does it have to be to become a problem? I always thought this was more relative to -10deg and so on such as Nth America, Europe, etc.

GQ Bear wrote:How cold does it have to be to become a problem? I always thought this was more relative to -10deg and so on such as Nth America, Europe, etc.

It starts to become a problem around -3 Glenn. With diesel sitting in a metal tank over night with wind chill it gets well and truly cold enough in australia. Keeping your tank full also helps

Ruffy wrote:

GQ Bear wrote:How cold does it have to be to become a problem? I always thought this was more relative to -10deg and so on such as Nth America, Europe, etc.

It starts to become a problem around -3 Glenn. With diesel sitting in a metal tank over night with wind chill it gets well and truly cold enough in australia. Keeping your tank full also helps

In more ways than one

we had -6 here coupla nights ago and starting in the morning is just impossible. It gets a lot colder here too like -16 to -20 and the taps on the water tanks split if there not wrapped etc..I've tried mixing kero which helps but when it gets that cold it's not gonna go BUT when I used to live in Melb and go up to the snow I never had any probs with staring after a night out.....no where near as cold

+dj_hansen+ wrote:Grab a bottle of Chemtech Dieselpower... has the anti-geling/iceing additive in it. Most other off the shelf additives will contain it, read the back of the bottle.

As said, any servo near the snow will have alpine diesel at the bowser, or will be able to recommend an additive for you (however it might be more expensive than buying it from supercheap in melbourne).

Sorry to hijack but i run that chemtech additive all the time even with the alpine diesel, should i shop using it with the alpine diesel or is it still ok to use. Never really thought bout it before...

But never had n e problems starting the lux up there except it like sucks amperage out of the battery and goes flat easily. (had a foot of snow on it one time over nite)

I cant see it causing any trouble.... ring them up and ask, they are really helpfull.

Batteries really dont like the cold

brad 93hilux wrote:But never had n e problems starting the lux up there except it like sucks amperage out of the battery and goes flat easily. (had a foot of snow on it one time over nite)

never thought of that......wonder what the freze point of electrolite would be, wouldn't imagine it would be too much less than water

GQ Bear wrote:How cold does it have to be to become a problem? I always thought this was more relative to -10deg and so on such as Nth America, Europe, etc.

It was -10 at Perisher last Saturday night.

lethal weapon wrote:Does anyone know if this is true or not? If so, where can i get this stuff

I normally get a bit of fuel at Michelago or Cooma depending how late at night it is when I head down. I know Cooma is Alpine Diesel and I'm pretty sure Michelago and Bredbo would be too. Diesel was $1.51 a litre in Jindy last weekend and $1.40 odd in Cooma. I filled up on Sunday on the Way home at $1.30/L at Michelago which is about 25 minutes south of Canberra. Hope this helps.

GQ Bear wrote:

How cold does it have to be to become a problem? I always thought this was more relative to -10deg and so on such as Nth America, Europe, etc.

Grand Final weekend about 4 years ago we went up to the Bluff Hut ( in Victoria ) When we got there , there were already a couple of vehicles there.
Long story short : Came out of the hut in the morning and there was snow everywhere. Never seen so much snow at the Bluff. We all decided to start the vehicles to warm them up. All started except one. Everyone had Local Fuel ( alpine ) except the bloke who`s car wouldnt start. It clicked over ok (battery ) but the fuel had frozen. I stayed there with them for a couple of hours but they couldnt get it started.

We were travelling through the Vic High Country a few years back and came across a guy with a small gas cooker under his Hilux....

First thing i thought was insurance job so i had to stop and see what was going on..Poor bloke had been there for about 2 hours in the freezing cold tryin to heat his fuel tank up to get it running.

Stayed with him for about an hour till he got it going then he was heading back to mansfield to get some Alpine Diesel

Thanks guys, i'll keep an eye out for it....

When I worked for BP a few years ago, they supplied alpine diesel here in Bathurst, but I think the concentration of the 'anti-freeze' can vary, not sure if they still do.
Diesel will freeze here , we had trucks(fire) freezing up here a few years ago in the frost, also had the pumps on the back cracking housings as they had water in them, they were left outside overnight,was not a good thing.
P.S it has snowed here overnight, all roads east are still closed.....

Was up at mt. howitt 2 years ago, on December 27th (yep December)
No service stations were selling alpine mix at that time of year and it was stinking hot at sale when we filled up.
Drove up and camped at hut overnight and had 2-3 inches of snow, thought it was great until we couldnt start both diesel vehicles

heated the billy a few times pouring warm water over injector pump and fuel lines etc for a few hours, finally got going late that afternoon.
We always run "Diesel Power" whenever we go up the High Country now cause you can get caught out ANY time of year up their.

fullmetaljacket wrote:winter mix is 70% diesel 30% heating oil.....easy to mix yourself but as mentioned servo's in the area will sell winter/alpine mix.

you may need to put some cardboard or something in front of your radiator so the diesel gets to operating temp (depending of vintage of your vehicle)

It used to be kerosene they mixed in, don't know if it still is.
If your diesel has turned to wax, adding kerosene to the tank will dissolve the wax and get you going again.

Of course it's the diesel in your fuel filters and lines that's the hardest to dissolve, but once you get running the return-to-tank line will warm and dissolve it.

In New Zealand pretty much everywhere gets winter diesel. In Aussie I can imagine they only sell it in at risk areas.

KiwiBacon wrote:

fullmetaljacket wrote:winter mix is 70% diesel 30% heating oil.....easy to mix yourself but as mentioned servo's in the area will sell winter/alpine mix.

you may need to put some cardboard or something in front of your radiator so the diesel gets to operating temp (depending of vintage of your vehicle)

It used to be kerosene they mixed in, don't know if it still is.
If your diesel has turned to wax, adding kerosene to the tank will dissolve the wax and get you going again.

Of course it's the diesel in your fuel filters and lines that's the hardest to dissolve, but once you get running the return-to-tank line will warm and dissolve it.

In New Zealand pretty much everywhere gets winter diesel. In Aussie I can imagine they only sell it in at risk areas.

heating oil is the next step up in the refinement process to diesel, my old man has worked for mobil for 45 years and gets the heating oil for me cheap. years ago some transport companies ran straight heating oil in their trucks untill they got cought out and a road tax now applies to heating oil as well. Have herd to use kero as a suplement for heating oil but I think it runs too hot (it is jet fuel with colour added).

Snarba wrote:we had -6 here coupla nights ago and starting in the morning is just impossible. It gets a lot colder here too like -16 to -20 and the taps on the water tanks split if there not wrapped etc..I've tried mixing kero which helps but when it gets that cold it's not gonna go BUT when I used to live in Melb and go up to the snow I never had any probs with staring after a night out.....no where near as cold

WT?
Your location has you in Qld.
Where in Qld does it get to minus 6 ?

fullmetaljacket wrote:

KiwiBacon wrote:

fullmetaljacket wrote:winter mix is 70% diesel 30% heating oil.....easy to mix yourself but as mentioned servo's in the area will sell winter/alpine mix.

you may need to put some cardboard or something in front of your radiator so the diesel gets to operating temp (depending of vintage of your vehicle)

It used to be kerosene they mixed in, don't know if it still is.
If your diesel has turned to wax, adding kerosene to the tank will dissolve the wax and get you going again.

Of course it's the diesel in your fuel filters and lines that's the hardest to dissolve, but once you get running the return-to-tank line will warm and dissolve it.

In New Zealand pretty much everywhere gets winter diesel. In Aussie I can imagine they only sell it in at risk areas.

heating oil is the next step up in the refinement process to diesel, my old man has worked for mobil for 45 years and gets the heating oil for me cheap. years ago some transport companies ran straight heating oil in their trucks untill they got cought out and a road tax now applies to heating oil as well. Have herd to use kero as a suplement for heating oil but I think it runs too hot (it is jet fuel with colour added).

Here in kiwiland the road tax isn't part of the fuel for diesel, so you can run your truck on electricity if you like.

This page:
http://www.aie.org.au/melb/material/resource/fuels.htm
shows the energy content of diesel, heating oil and kerosene being pretty close. Diesel being the highest of the three.

I can't find anything on adiabatic flame temps, but with specific densities and energy contents that close I'd expect those to be close too.

I've heard that A1 jet fuel has had all the large chain molecules removed to prevent forming wax at higher altitudes and lower temps. Which I guess makes it simply the more volatile half of your tank of diesel and a guaranteed winter fuel.


I should add that the two cats here are named "Diesel" and "Kero".

Ezookiel wrote:

Snarba wrote:we had -6 here coupla nights ago and starting in the morning is just impossible. It gets a lot colder here too like -16 to -20 and the taps on the water tanks split if there not wrapped etc..I've tried mixing kero which helps but when it gets that cold it's not gonna go BUT when I used to live in Melb and go up to the snow I never had any probs with staring after a night out.....no where near as cold

WT?
Your location has you in Qld.
Where in Qld does it get to minus 6 ?

Maybe here: http://www-cluster.bom.gov.au/climate/d ... test.shtml
Will get a lot colder than -5 by the time winter is over.

There have been a lot of (over)simplified versions of what winter diesel is. Diesel (and petrol) in most parts of OZ is varied in blend between seasons (to account for evaporation and low temp problems).

The bigest problem is "waxing" of diesel - the wax molecules that are present in diesel solidifying at low temperatures. Various other lighter fractions are blended with the diesel to stop this happening, and also to keep the viscosity low enough at cold temperatures. In REALLY cold places (e.g. siberia) the blend can be up to 30% petrol!!!

As others have said - best option is to fill up as close to the snow areas as possible, so you get winter diesel. As an emergency measure you could probably also carry some petrol (to mix with the diesel) and/or a can of aerostart if you are worried.