Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Why is a High Mount winch faster?
If it has an 8000 lb pull, and an x hp motor, isn't it just a factor of motor power and gear ratio?
The external brake is good, but the premier has this.
I take it the gearbox is tough, as people mount 2 motors on them, but planetry pack should be able to be built just as tough.

Just trying to get an understanding.

Thanx
Paul

me3@neuralfibre.com wrote:Why is a High Mount winch faster?

look at the pulling spped v's load and you will understand why (due to the gearbox design of the highmount). Under full load a Ramsey 9500 or Warn 9500HS is faster. The highmount is faster with less load or no load though, making cable retireval etc faster.

So in comps when you drive and winch (hopefully reducing the load) the winch will be faster.

Jason

So a low mount with a higher gear ratio would give the same result?

me3@neuralfibre.com wrote:So a low mount with a higher gear ratio would give the same result?

It could..... but changing the gearing to make it faster will reduce the pulling power of the winch, ro significantlky increase the load on the motor / electrics thus reducing the speed again.

Think of it as when you ride a mountain bike, the smaller the rear cog, the faster you go , but it takes effort to do this, increasing the rear cog size, measn you go slower but with less effort. (except if you put it in the sloweest speed and peddle really fast but this wears you out).

Winch manufacturers spend a lot of time in R&D to get the best combination of motor HP ( & draw on batteries), v's speed etc.

Some low mounts have been sold with two stage gear boxes, in theory a slow speed strong pulling gear for thick mud, or steep hills, and a higher speed waeker pulling power for spooling etc. Mega winch was an Australian made winch in the mid 90's that offered this.

The design of the highmount means less load the faster the winch will operate (to a point).

Jason

this should added in the bible!

Warn high mount winch
M8274-50 Winch Specifications

Part Numbers: 38631 (12V), 375832 (24V)
Rated Line Pull: 8000 lbs. single-line
Motor: 12V 4.6 hp, 24V 2.5 hp, Series Wound
Remote Control: Remote switch, 12' lead
Geartrain: Spur Gear
Gear Ratio: 134:1
Lubrication: 6 oz. SAE 30 (non-detergent)
Clutch (freespooling): Sliding Motor Pinion Gear
Brake: Automatic, disc type
Drum Diameter/Length: 3.5"/8.5"
Weight: 110 lbs.
Wire Rope: 150', 5/16" diameter
Fairlead: Roller
Recommended Battery: 650 CCA for winching
Battery Leads: 2 gauge, 72"
Finish: Argent Gray Powder Coat with Clear Coat
Nuts: PN 7616, L/W: PN 2146
Bolts: PN 7165

12V DC PERFORMANCE SPECS
Line Pull Lbs. Line Speed FT./min Motor Current Pull by layer layer/Lbs.
0 73.4 55 amps 1/8000
2000 22 190 amps 2/7460
4000 12 275 amps 3/6980
6000 9.50 350 amps 4/6620
8000 6.10 450 amps 5/6290

24V DC PERFORMANCE SPECS
Line Pull Lbs. Line Speed FT./min Motor Current Pull by layer layer/Lbs.
0 65 24 amps 1/8000
2000 23 96 amps 2/7460
4000 17 149 amps 3/6980
6000 13 203 amps 4/6620
8000 7.9 273 amps 5/6290
Above performance specs are based on first layer of drum

Winch Dimensions: 1605" L. x 8.5" D. x 15" H
Mounting Bolt Pattern: 10.0" x 4.5"

Warn xd9000i

Rated Line Pull: 9000 lbs. (4080 kgs.) single-line
Motor: 12V 4.6 hp, 24V 2.5 hp, Series WoundTM
Remote Control: Remote switch, 12' (3.7m) lead
Geartrain: 3-Stage Planetary
Gear Ratio: 156:1
Lubrication: Aeroshell #17
Clutch (freespooling): Sliding Ring Gear
Brake: Automatic Direct Drive Cone
Drum Diameter/Length: 2.5"/9.0" (6.4cm/23cm)
Weight: 85 lbs. (38.5 kgs.)
Wire Rope: 125', 5/16" diameter (38m, 8mm diameter)
Fairlead: Roller
Recommended Battery: 650 CCA minimum for winching
Battery Leads: 2 gauge, 72" (1.83m)
Finish: Argent Powder Coat
Nuts/Bolts: PN 39570
CE Winches: CE products are designed to meet European Standards. CE winches include CE labels, Manuals, Safety Hook and Thimble.


12V DC PERFORMANCE SPECS
Line Pull
Lbs.(Kgs.) Line Speed
FT./min(M/min.) Motor
Current Pull by layer
layer/Lbs(Kgs.)
0 38(11.6) 70 amps 1/9000(4082)
2000(910) 14.4(4.39) 180 amps 2/8190(3715)
4000(1810) 11(3.35) 255 amps 3/7500(3402)
6000(2720) 8.67(2.64) 330 amps 4/7010(3180)
8000(3630) 6.88(2.10) 415 amps 5/6570(2980)
9000(4080) 6.38(1.94) 460 amps


Winch Dimensions: 21.8" L. x 6.3" D. x 9.94" H.
(553mm L. x 160mm D. x 252mm H.)
Mounting Bolt Pattern: 10.0" x 4.5" (254mm x 114.3mm)

me3@neuralfibre,
instead of 20, thousand users giving you a mixture of good and bad info. read the above specifications and you can see for yourself exactly what Ossie is trying to say.


line speed and tourqe. its all there,

Yep, I see the specs. It just looks like its a combination of drum diameter, ratio and motor.

What I was getting is is more along the lines of "Is there something special about the high mount format?"

ie. They are designed from competiton. There is more room making them able to build in a stronger gear train. They have just become the defacto standard because of the speed / ratio, the fact they are high mount is just co-incidental etc etc.

There must be a reason they are different. Theoreticalyl you could build a low mount with the same drum / motor / gear ratio and get teh same results, or is there something I am missing?

Paul

Also high mounts are better suited to synthetic rope. The drum on a low mount can get too hot causing the rope to fail. You can fit more rope on a highmount than a lowmount as well.

me3@neuralfibre.com wrote:ie. They are designed from competiton.

I'm not so sure about that, Highmounts where shipped out on "the Ark" these things were around long before anyone was stupid enough to race each other with the bloody things.

They are a very simple design that hasn't changed in a long, long time hence most of the compettion ones are heavily modified, a stock highmount is not very competitive but are strong and seem to last just about forever unlike a lowmount which tend to be very tempremental.

Just a thought.

I understand what your getting at at would like to understand also, I always though it must be the inherent drag from the lowmount gearing that slows them down as there is a lot of cogs that have to work very hard to make a lowmount spin faster whereas a highmount is a fairly simple gearbox with little resistance.

cheers
leeham

me3@neuralfibre.com wrote:Yep, I see the specs. It just looks like its a combination of drum diameter, ratio and motor.

What I was getting is is more along the lines of "Is there something special about the high mount format?"

ie. They are designed from competiton. There is more room making them able to build in a stronger gear train. They have just become the defacto standard because of the speed / ratio, the fact they are high mount is just co-incidental etc etc.

There must be a reason they are different. Theoreticalyl you could build a low mount with the same drum / motor / gear ratio and get teh same results, or is there something I am missing?


Paul

you just answered your own questions!

a few break down pix of the basic high mount winch. these have straight cut hardened gears.

the low mount generally has a 3 stage planetrary gear box (lets say a 9000lb). these are much more complicated.