Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Just bought a 200 amp inverter pulse tig for $1698 from trade tools.

Have to learn to use it.

what size electrode is best? its got a small one heard 2.4mm is the go.

also what type thoriated? etc

also where do you buy gas lenses?

I want it for welding 4130, what filler rod is best. also is stainshield gas the best or universal gas?

I welded some 1.6mm alloy sheet and it came up factory looking really proud! used small electrode with red end? argon and mig wire to fill 1.2mm

cheers bru

they are good those ones from trade tools, have been looking at them for a while now, they could have given you a better price than that...

hey bru. i found that argon was a good gas for welding stainless and ally. you ill be able to get all your sheilds from BOC in kunda park ( ask for Rob ). they are a good little setup. used to use a BOC for some stainless work i done at Meatworld. Very very handy.

what brand did you get, Trade Tools do lincoln stuff dont they?

As for the electrode 2.4s will be the go. Have a nice long taper on the end and she will be schweet.


Joel

yea i always deal with rob fox. he hates it when i don't buy boc welders then try to get tips etc. none of them are welders either so I'll ask here and buy there later

cheers bru

also mud4b they just came in 2 days ago not the small $600 - 1100 jobs, this is pretty big like half the size of a mig and a little wider

bru21 wrote:Just bought a 200 amp inverter pulse tig for $1698 from trade tools.

Have to learn to use it.

what size electrode is best? its got a small one heard 2.4mm is the go.
For stainless and Chrome/Moly 4130 use either 1.6 or 2.4 diameter, I use mainly 1.6 diameter.
For Aluminium use 2.4 or 3.2 diameter, I use mainly 2.4 diameter except on heavier sections, I was even using a 4.0 mm one yesterday with the machine flat out at 300 amps AC on 32 thick plate and lots of preheat.

also what type thoriated? etc
Thoriated for Stainless and 4130 and Ceriated or Zirconated for Aluminium, I prefer Ceriated for Aluminium as it handles the amperages better and you can grind it to a point for fillet welding.

also where do you buy gas lenses?
Usually a specialist welding store, I've found most of the BOC places know b@gger all about specialist tig setups.

I want it for welding 4130, what filler rod is best. also is stainshield gas the best or universal gas?
I use "super steel" filler wire also known as ER70S2, for fine welding I use LW1 (ER70S6) 1.2mm or 0.9 mm Mig wire. I use welding grade Argon exclusively, Helium can be used for thick section Aluminium welding but it's very expensive.

I welded some 1.6mm alloy sheet and it came up factory looking really proud! used small electrode with red end? argon and mig wire to fill 1.2mm
Red end electrodes are Thoriated, for Aluminium Ceriated ones are better. When welding Aluminium keep in mind if you ever want to anodise anything after welding, if you do, use 5356 wire (5% Magnesium) as it will anodise the same colour. If you use any of the Silicon wires (4043/4047) (5% and 10% Silicon) they will anodise black on the weld area.

cheers bru

Regards Andrew.

If you're after specialist Tig stuff there's a guy I deal with here in Melbourne and if he hasn't got it then no one has here's their details.
http://www.weldtronic.com.au/ Give them a ring and tell them what you require, I've bought heaps of really trick Tig stuff off them including my new SAF auto darkening helmet which is the best I've seen and I've seen them all.
Regards Andrew.

awill4x4 wrote:

bru21 wrote:Just bought a 200 amp inverter pulse tig for $1698 from trade tools.

Have to learn to use it.

what size electrode is best? its got a small one heard 2.4mm is the go.
For stainless and Chrome/Moly 4130 use either 1.6 or 2.4 diameter, I use mainly 1.6 diameter.
For Aluminium use 2.4 or 3.2 diameter, I use mainly 2.4 diameter except on heavier sections, I was even using a 4.0 mm one yesterday with the machine flat out at 300 amps AC on 32 thick plate and lots of preheat.

also what type thoriated? etc
Thoriated for Stainless and 4130 and Ceriated or Zirconated for Aluminium, I prefer Ceriated for Aluminium as it handles the amperages better and you can grind it to a point for fillet welding.

also where do you buy gas lenses?
Usually a specialist welding store, I've found most of the BOC places know b@gger all about specialist tig setups.

I want it for welding 4130, what filler rod is best. also is stainshield gas the best or universal gas?
I use "super steel" filler wire also known as ER70S2, for fine welding I use LW1 (ER70S6) 1.2mm or 0.9 mm Mig wire. I use welding grade Argon exclusively, Helium can be used for thick section Aluminium welding but it's very expensive.

I welded some 1.6mm alloy sheet and it came up factory looking really proud! used small electrode with red end? argon and mig wire to fill 1.2mm
Red end electrodes are Thoriated, for Aluminium Ceriated ones are better. When welding Aluminium keep in mind if you ever want to anodise anything after welding, if you do, use 5356 wire (5% Magnesium) as it will anodise the same colour. If you use any of the Silicon wires (4043/4047) (5% and 10% Silicon) they will anodise black on the weld area.

cheers bru

Regards Andrew.

a sticky for sure.... man i lurve your info...

Here's some pics of my new helmet, can't say I'm fussed with the colour and graphics but the specs are terrific with digital LCD controls, larger viewing area, 4 sensors, adjustable sensitivity, delay and 4 different modes. Welding - adjustable from shade 9-13. Oxy and low amp Tig adjustable from shade 5-9. Grind - fixed shade 4 and also X mode which is designed for outdoor welding where the helmet isn't triggered by outdoor sunshine but only by the electro magnetic field of the arc when welding.
Effectively this helmet gives me adjustable shades from 5 - 13 nothing else has these features yet, this is built in the same factory as the Miller helmets so it's possible Miller may introduce their helmets with these new digital controls at some time in the future.
Regards Andrew.

awill4x4 wrote:Here's some pics of my new helmet, can't say I'm fussed with the colour and graphics but the specs are terrific with digital LCD controls, larger viewing area, 4 sensors, adjustable sensitivity, delay and 4 different modes. Welding - adjustable from shade 9-13. Oxy and low amp Tig adjustable from shade 5-9. Grind - fixed shade 4 and also X mode which is designed for outdoor welding where the helmet isn't triggered by outdoor sunshine but only by the electro magnetic field of the arc when welding.
Effectively this helmet gives me adjustable shades from 5 - 13 nothing else has these features yet, this is built in the same factory as the Miller helmets so it's possible Miller may introduce their helmets with these new digital controls at some time in the future.
Regards Andrew.

Very nice! so what brand is it?
And, if its not a rude question, how many $$$?

ausyota wrote: Very nice! so what brand is it?
And, if its not a rude question, how many $$$?

It's a Saf/ Air Liquide helmet the Eurolux Jet Advance 4000 model. Here's a link to the specs of the 3000 and 4000 series. The 3000 series uses the exact same cassette as the top of line Miller Elite helmets the 4000 series I have is further advanced again.
http://www.saf-airliquide.com/fr/prod_m ... 5232_1.pdf
It cost me just under $450 so it's not a cheap helmet but it's still cheaper than the Optrel and Speedglas ones with better features to boot.
I tig weld all day and I use an 8+ year old Esab Eyetech at work which is still going but I've just bought a new state of the art Kemppi AC/DC Tig for home use and I want to teach my son how to tig weld so I won't cut corners with regards to either his or my eyes.
Regards Andrew.

thanks heaps for the info! I'll get some tips etc ordered.

just ordered the chromoly for the zook, will be heaps of welding as its a fully stressed cage / suspension etc like a trophy truck. its dear though - the sheet alone was $350 for 3mm plate 6' by 1'1/2".

i bought a miller elite helmet. cost $406 delivered. only have 2 problems. 1 its not auto on which my previous helmets have been (the speed glass lasted longer without repressing) i got flashed a couple of times till i remembered. secondly the flip up / down is poor and flogged out pretty quickly. i liked it on the middle setting now its hard up against my face.

thanks again

bru

Any links on the tig Bru??

Thanks

daniels

awill4x4 wrote:

I was about to say thats a Miller Helmet. Its the exact same housing as my Miller helmet.

RUFF wrote: I was about to say thats a Miller Helmet. Its the exact same housing as my Miller helmet.

It obviously comes out of the same factory as the Miller ones,(Korea) we actually swapped the cassette out of a Miller Elite into this one and visa versa. clear covers both inside and outside are the same.
That's what makes me think that Miller will eventually end up with the new digital cassette unit.
Regards Andrew.

Heres my piece of advice -

Just do what Awill says to do, it works!!!

One thing that i see you have not touched on as yet is cleaning the Chromemoly before you weld it.

It needs to be really clean - i will leave the rest up to Awill.

DanielS wrote:Any links on the tig Bru??

Thanks

daniels

mate i looked EVERYWHERE for a link etc and there are none as yet. i'll post a pic up when I get a chance.

cheers for the info all

Damn awill I wish Bru had started this thread a few days earlier as I would of bought one of those helmuts ...Im retiring my shiteglas 9000xi and decided after another guy I used to wrk with I would try one of the miller helumts just the run of the mill joker elite ....for 389 .......didnt realyy try to get it cheaper as I needed to get something b4 tax time ...


that helmut you have sounds the goods ...will look @ them next 4sure ....

Your tig abilitys are awesome mate ......self taught ??? obviously years of experience ....and its great that your teaching your son and passing on your abilitys



Bru on a side not .....I posted in your members thread about seeing your rig ...or maybe your old rig ????? ...have alook an update

A1 wrote: Your tig abilitys are awesome mate ......self taught ??? obviously years of experience ....and its great that your teaching your son and passing on your abilitys

Thanks for that, I'm self taught but I'm a qualified Boilermaker by trade. I've been doing Tig welding for a veeeeeeeeerrrrry long time so I guess you have to pick up some skill eventually .
As for teaching my son, I was looking at trying to get him involved in the things I do before it's too late and he's not interested and he was starting to get a bit of an attitude problem both at home and school. I tried to think of things we had in common, neither of us like footy and he's not interested in motor racing like I am. I finally thought the one thing I'm good at is Tig welding and asked if he'd like to learn it and he seems as happy as the proverbial "pig in shiat"
On Monday nights I take him to my after hours welding job and he gets to mix with other adults and he gets to see how adults relate rather than kids and it seems to rubbing off. He's much calmer both at home and school and he's as proud as punch of the welds he's doing, I'm as proud of punch of him too to so it's a 2 way street.
Regards Andrew.

awill4x4 wrote:

A1 wrote: Your tig abilitys are awesome mate ......self taught ??? obviously years of experience ....and its great that your teaching your son and passing on your abilitys

Thanks for that, I'm self taught but I'm a qualified Boilermaker by trade. I've been doing Tig welding for a veeeeeeeeerrrrry long time so I guess you have to pick up some skill eventually .
As for teaching my son, I was looking at trying to get him involved in the things I do before it's too late and he's not interested and he was starting to get a bit of an attitude problem both at home and school. I tried to think of things we had in common, neither of us like footy and he's not interested in motor racing like I am. I finally thought the one thing I'm good at is Tig welding and asked if he'd like to learn it and he seems as happy as the proverbial "pig in shiat"
On Monday nights I take him to my after hours welding job and he gets to mix with other adults and he gets to see how adults relate rather than kids and it seems to rubbing off. He's much calmer both at home and school and he's as proud as punch of the welds he's doing, I'm as proud of punch of him too to so it's a 2 way street.
Regards Andrew.

Andrew
No porbs mate credit where definatley credit is due

LOL for a boilly by trade mate your doing some bloody unbeleiveable light gauge work with the intercoolers etc .........

Sounds as though the Welding lessons the handover of valuable tig information is paying dividens


Dan

I grabbed all the gear you recomended as well as the super steel filler rods. they had a crmo1 er80 something that they were trying to sell me as well but i assumed that it will crack. I got the super steel in 1.6mm

regards

Justin

bru21 wrote:I grabbed all the gear you recomended as well as the super steel filler rods. they had a crmo1 er80 something that they were trying to sell me as well but i assumed that it will crack. I got the super steel in 1.6mm

regards

Justin

well get to it and pic it up... someone close that can tigweld my crap... sweet..

tig welding is easy, just pick one up n have a play with it, if you can get a few pointer from some one who has done it its even better. Very similar to oxy welding for those that can remember what that is

bru21 wrote:I grabbed all the gear you recomended as well as the super steel filler rods. they had a crmo1 er80 something that they were trying to sell me as well but i assumed that it will crack. I got the super steel in 1.6mm
regards
Justin

That's great Justin, the gear I suggested will suit you fine. You can go to an ER80Sb2 wire but you're paying quite a bit more for it and you lose out in weld ductility, we use ER70 super steel rods or even "hi test" R60 oxy welding rods. Personally, I don't like the hi test ones I feel I get a better result with the ER70 ones but the boss at work swears by the hi test ones himself.
You're going to be on a bit of a learning curve with your new welder but take it slowly and change one setting at a time until you get it in your head what that setting actually does.
On AC Aluminium welding you'll find the AC balance adjustment to be probably the single most important dial on your machine with the largest variations of the width and penetration of the welds from one extreme of the dial to the other.
One side of the dial will give you a much tighter arc with more penetration the other side will give you a much broader weld with less penetration but a better cleaning action of the arc to get rid of the oxidisation present on all Aluminium alloys. (this side also puts more heat back into the torch and the tungsten and can overload the tungstens ability to handle high amperages)
If your machine has pulse capabilities set your pulse time ratio to 50% high and 50% low. Usually I like the lower side (base current amperage) about 30-40% of the peak pulse current amperage. eg: if the pulse (high) current is 100 amps set your base current to 30-40 amps it's a good starting point.
For pulse duration, I like a pulse between 0.7- 1.0 pulses per second, it's slow but it's precise and you can get that row of 1/2 dimes effect the American welders like to talk about.
I do a lot of pulse welding on Aluminium but not as much on steel it's my personal preference only.
I measure my gas flow at the torch as the gauges are notorious for giving false readings, I use a cheap bobbet type torch gas flow meter and aim for a gas flow around 7-7.5 litres/min measured at the torch.
Regards Andrew.

Justin, here's a link to how the bobbet style gas flow meters work to measure gas flow at the torch. This is an Esab one but the generic ones work exactly the same way, I have a Binzel one at work I use every time I change the gas bottle for a new one.
http://www.esabna.com/literature/Arc%20 ... s_Flow.pdf
Regards Andrew.

thanks again mate. I will listen and learn!

The molly is pretty dear. a piece of sheet 3mm thick, 6 ft by 1.5 ft was $350 - needed less but thats the smallest they sell. I would love to get my hands on small bits of 1.6mm for gussets. The total bill was over $800 for the sheet and the 38mm and 44 tube. Hope its all worthwile. Spent 9k on shocks for this project so its not a lot comparitivly.

cheers mate bru

bru21 wrote:thanks again mate. I will listen and learn!

The molly is pretty dear. a piece of sheet 3mm thick, 6 ft by 1.5 ft was $350 - needed less but thats the smallest they sell. I would love to get my hands on small bits of 1.6mm for gussets. The total bill was over $800 for the sheet and the 38mm and 44 tube. Hope its all worthwile. Spent 9k on shocks for this project so its not a lot comparitivly.

cheers mate bru

has this project begun yet?

wheres the members thread buuuuiiiiilllllddd upppppp!?

no members thread, need internet at home for that. i am sure bingham will do one. he is the photo gangsta. This will be so different to anything else getting around.

awill, is this the same one as you got???

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/wel ... -elite.php

There's some fantastic advice in this thread and I wasn't even looking for it. Cheers guys.

still dont think the miller has been released in aust yet, still should be able to get them sent here, AUD$320 plus postage?

weldtronic want $530 for the saf-fro one, to my door.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... ingPayment