Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hi i was wondering how hard it is to convert a swb hard top 1ltr into a 2 seat tray-back?
The body work would take time to get nice, but what i want to know is the legalities, would it need to be engineered? or just mod plated? and what about on the insurance/rego papers where it says hard top?
If you could post some pics it would be appreciated.
Thanks
Mitch

Yes, it will need engineering as there are significant structural modifications to the back of the cab.

You are right, it will take a lot of work and is not feaasible on a SWB in my opinion as the tray ends up too short to be useful.

If you want a trayback ute, keep your eye out, ine will turn up as farm car - there are two in our club that came off farms. They are usually rough, but if you have a clean SWB, you can just swap everything over. this way you get the LWB and the proper cab.

Just my 2C

Steve.

I agree turning a swb sierra into a ute is useless. lots of work and you end up with a space that isnt practical for anything. on a car that looks crapola. If your building a flat tray which you will mount your spare tire then you are also lifting your center of gravity. IMO if you want to separate the back from the front then get a cargo barrier.

muppet_man67 wrote: on a car that looks crapola.

That's a big call coming from you

You are right though. Ute chops are dumb. We were following this "tough as" GQ Dual cab chop the other day.... 36" pedes, big lift, yada yada yada... he was packed to go away for the W/E... and A) had everything (whch consisted of a spare tyre, an esky and a swag) piled up to roof height on the tray, and B) had 18" of daylight between the tray and the chassis.

If he'd left the back in it he would have ahd a dry swag, the spare on the back door, a 500mm lower COG in the back and could have seen our the rear view mirror. Boy, it looked tough though

Steve.

Like has been said it's a bit of work but i like the look of the end product ussually if the tray is at the right hight!

I will get around to doing it one day but not any time soon as it's still pretty straight!

suzuki boy wrote:Like has been said it's a bit of work but i like the look of the end product ussually if the tray is at the right hight!

I will get around to doing it one day but not any time soon as it's still pretty straight!

It makes even less sense on a soft top. a cargo barrier, one of maria's windjammers, and a plank of wood over the wheel wells would give you the same result. The advantage would be that you could store stuff under your plank of wood. ie a spare or put draws in etc.


Re Gwagonsteve. Yes my car looks crapola. I think I remember you once thinking about cutting the G into a ute?

here's the best photo I could find of one as suggested. A swb with a Ute cab on it. It doesn't show it at its best angle

That's about the biggest tyre that car could run or the tyres would hit the back of the cab.

Suzuki boy - What is the "right height"? for me, the "right height" to carry the weight in the car is as low as possible, which means that for a SWB zook, why not just keep the back on it? the floor of the car is already at the best height and was even made to fit in there. WOW

I currently do own a dropside tray, and yes, I do think the weight is too high.

I won't be lowering the tray, but I won't be raising it at all either - when I go bigger tyres I will cut the tray as required.

Yes, muppetman, but a UTE not a tray - but in any case, with the G I could use all the rear panelling etc and it would look stock - G's were sold as traybacks too. cutting a SWB zook always leads to some compromise for a back window and with some wheelarch intrusion .

Steve.

The right hight is about right in the photo abouve with the flares cut into the tray so the tyres can flex up into it!

With the left over wheel arches trimed out and a peice of tube going from rock sliders on a bit of a curve up to the tray then a roll bar on the diagonal(45degrese) with the spare mounted on that then you still got room for tool boxs and stuff!

I have thought and drawn pics! One day it might happen!

That's OK, but what is the advantage? Seriously, why? you have moved you weight up heaps and done all this work on the car only to make it less practical and less capable because of the COG increase.

you will need an engineers cert ($600 or so) to drive it on the road, plus the cost of the chop. 9 out of 10 sierras that get the chop never get back on the road.

The limit to tyre size will ALWAYS be in the front well before the rear so I just can't see the point in deliberately building a car that doesn't work as well as it did before it was chopped.

If you want a ute, do what I did and wait until a proper ute comes along. they look right, have the extra wheelbase, and save lots of work for nothing.

*ridiculous opinionated rant on (not intended at you suzukiboy)*

IMHO ute chops are like hilift jacks. Notice how hilifts are always mounted where you can see them? That's because they are toughguy stickers. They are totally useless, but they make it look like you know what yua re doing. Lots of guys use roof lights the same way. It says "wow... that guy must be hardcore.... he has a hilift jack... or does heaps of night driving..... or must want to do comps or something or whatever cutting the back of your car proves.

my guess is that in about 5 years ute chops will be embarassing and no-one will want one. They are a fad* It;s just something you can do to your car with a grinder that proves you are hardcore. They are car tattoos- they just scream " I'm so hardcore I cut up my previously useful car to make something useless... but look how tough it is."

(disclaimer.... if you can't buy the car you want in a ute, it's cool to chop it. about the only example I can think of in an 80 series. these are cool as a ute.)

*ridiculous opinionated rant off*

Steve.

another thing.
we found by "trialing" zooks in NZ, with no backs on them. Was that the rear had a habbit of "jumping" over the front on steep decents, no a nice feeling. there is more weight in the rear than you think, and its as low as you can get it without adding lead to the bottom edges of the rails.

cutting the rear off a shorty is a pointless waiste of time, they look dunb and you have even less useful space, just do yourself a favour and get a LWB. at least then you can run a decent tire without it "hitting" the rear of the cab........ well we hope it won't hit the cab

mitch

Kind of a hijack but Steve I totally agree with what your saying but if you dont have a high lift how do you change your tyre? If there is a better way than lugging around a big HEAVY jack in a small zook I need to know.
Nik

I use a small hydraulic bottle type jack but Toyota bottle jacks work well.

Sometimes you might have to adjust the position of the car or do some shovel work to get the right location, but they are safe.

Hilifts are just so dangerous. They work well if the car has appropriate safe locations to jack from and only if the axle is tied to the chassis. Seeing cars with no barwork, or factory sidesteps and a hilift make me laugh.

I have had my car fall off a hilift in my workshop, several times, on perfectly flat concrete. I only very occasisionally take mine on a trip.

The handle is about the most useful thing in the shed though

There is a car in my area (80 series) with 32" all terrains, stock sidesteps, alloy bullbar, stock rear bumper, about 6 lights on the roof and a hilift on the roofrack.

Steve.

I see what you mean I suppose I could use a small jack under the axle. I hadnt thought about it accept thinking there is no way the standard jack will reach the chassis then lift it high enough to lift a tire. Know I feel like a real twat!
Thanks for that now back to the original thread!
Nik

Here is my hard top cut down, its amazing how good the extra 150mm's is after you get out of a stockman. my wheel base is extended 430mm though. I dont have a problem with weight, 2 guys strugle to lift the tray off. The rear door was used to fill the back in.


By captaincarnage at 2007-07-01


By captaincarnage at 2007-06-14

My brothers swb tray back mid build


By captaincarnage at 2007-07-04

i did this in an attempt to minimise noise and fumes. in the end my dog even had trouble staying on the tray. tray is this high to fit a second fuel tank

I think they look pretty good i like the white one.

As I've said before and got flamed big time for, I reckon thhey look stupid. The silver is the best of the 3 as it has had an increase in wheelbase. The white one just looks stupid. What's the point. You now have a vehicle that won't perform any better and is impractical for pretty much anything. It looks like its been hit in the rear end.

if you want the whole enclosed ute thing then Maruti backs work well without cutting anything. If you want that practicality of a flat tray then there is nothing to stop you from putting a hard cover over the back of your ute. once again no cutting and you can store stuff under it.

grimbo wrote:As I've said before and got flamed big time for, I reckon thhey look stupid. The silver is the best of the 3 as it has had an increase in wheelbase. The white one just looks stupid. What's the point. You now have a vehicle that won't perform any better and is impractical for pretty much anything. It looks like its been hit in the rear end.

each to there own..

mr green wrote:i did this in an attempt to minimise noise and fumes. in the end my dog even had trouble staying on the tray. tray is this high to fit a second fuel tank

Ilike this one ALOT!

I'm only going to chop when the back has seen better days! Being a narrow track it scrapes along banks and the corners cop a hiding!

At the moment i have the ute soft top with drawers in there and i still need more room! If i go the chop at least i have the tools in a space case along the front of the tub the wheel on the roll cage and then i can chuck the tent and esky on the tray!

It's all i need and if done right i like the look of them!

EACH TO THERE OWN!

A guy i know owns this one. Seems to work pretty well. Even has enough room for his fat a$$ that didn't fit quite so well in a stock ute.

[quote="sierrajim"]A guy i know owns this one. Seems to work pretty well. Even has enough room for his fat a$$ that didn't fit quite so well in a stock ute.

LOL the OLE ZOOK60 mobile seems to be a s.lu.t these days ....tis getting around

sierrajim wrote:A guy i know owns this one. Seems to work pretty well. Even has enough room for his fat a$$ that didn't fit quite so well in a stock ute.

Thats like the tray set up i was thinking! But the actaul tray a bit more curvey!

OK before anybody flames me or gets fired up, I think that ute converted cabs ON EXTENDED WHEELBASE sierras are OK if done well.

suzuki boy wrote: At the moment i have the ute soft top with drawers in there and i still need more room! If i go the chop at least i have the tools in a space case along the front of the tub the wheel on the roll cage and then i can chuck the tent and esky on the tray!

It's all i need and if done right i like the look of them!

EACH TO THERE OWN!

Look, I am not harping suzuki boy (Mr Green and aerenandmel, yours came up a treat) but do you really think you will get more room? 'cos you won't. Really, you just won't. You will not end up with more room than your car with draws in it.

To do it, you have to build a bulkhead behind the front seats. This will have to sit in line with about the rear edge of the B pillar. Now, unless you are a midget like me, you will struggle to run the rear window in line with the B pillar too because the seats will want to be in this space. Have a look at Mr Greens, which has been very professionally done and has used a stock ute rear window (am I right, Mr Green?) and he has been left with a TINY tray. Now, put a spare tyre on there, an esky, a swag and some tools. There's going to be a lot of stuff on there way higher than if you'd left the tub in place.

Look, I am ok with the each to their own thing, but a dumb idea is a dumb idea.

Ok, here's the exception. An extended wheelbase car like aerenandmel's or Sierrajims is fine - they look proportional and can fix a problem with interior room, but to do it, it has to look factory, which aerenandmel's, in particular, achieves (except for the small wheelarch bit visible)

Look, I have seen so many sierras cut up to do this and then just wrecked out without ever being finished. It takes a grinder and a dozen beers to cut one up, it takes a massive amount of effort and care to finish one and then to not improve any aspect of the cars behaviour (and end up with no dry storage and no real room) just seems a shame.

Funny - I was just talking to my wife about this thread and she just went "pfft! cut the back off a sierra and you might as well take it down the tip" Mate, she's seen people playing with sierras since you couldn't spell Sierra.

Steve.

yes your right about the rear window and wall. it was welded on to the back of the soft top pillars so the seats could stay were they were. this whole thing seemed like a good idea beforehand but incredably useless afterward(besides the dual tanks) which is why i sold it and bought a lux and now have a maruti to build up. and as far as the extended wheel base goes, yes this makes them alot more practical but you have just carved up something suzuki have made to build something suzuki have made

steve, got a pic of critta as a extracab?

that looked awesome when first done.

nic

mr green wrote: have just carved up something suzuki have made to build something suzuki have made

Exactly!

PS If you'd stretched the WB when you did yours, it would have been the shizzle. I'm a shortarse, so for me, the stock trayback cab is fine.

Nicbeer, here you go:



This was after we rebuilt it SPUA and tubed it up. It was pretty cool in this configuration, but still had wiring by cypress hill and more bog it in than a sewerage farm.

Steve.

Edit - there was absolutely no room in this either when it was finished.

mr green wrote:yes your right about the rear window and wall. it was welded on to the back of the soft top pillars so the seats could stay were they were. this whole thing seemed like a good idea beforehand but incredably useless afterward(besides the dual tanks) which is why i sold it and bought a lux and now have a maruti to build up. and as far as the extended wheel base goes, yes this makes them alot more practical but you have just carved up something suzuki have made to build something suzuki have made

This should go in the bible.

Was thinking about Gwagensteves speetch and i have a new tray design!

The tyre is under the tray with a tool box biult into the tray! That way i would still have the roll bar and all the weight down low and still a bit of room for the tent and stuff!

Keep the thread going it's bringing out all the faults every one else has done so hope when i do it it should be all good!

The only thing i can think of is the seat thing! Had a look at mine and yeah the back of the seat is past the hoop bit! Might have extend the body a little!

Don't want to alter the wheel base but how hard is it? Would think it's not just an an hour or 2 job!