Outer Limits 4x4 Board

What do you guys think about a Formula Suzuki competition? Similar to the Formula Toyota format in the US. Except we'd probably have full bodied rigs. The vehicles would have strict build guidelines designed to make the field level and the competition accessible.

Possible guidelines?
- Base vehicle SWB or LWB Sierra/Drover
- 1.3L carby only
- Sierra axles only
- Rockhoppers acceptable
- 35" tyres max
- 5.12:1 R&P max
- All lockers okay
- Leaf suspension only
- SPOA okay
- 3/4 elliptical okay
- Standard steering box only
- High steer okay
- 6 pt roll cage
- No winching?

More ideas?

How about explaining a bit more about what the format of the event would be... Sorry i don't know much about Formula Toyota - but currently i expect it to be some sort of road race?

p.s. Standard engine =

i was thinking more of some all terrain (tuff truck type) tracks and some rock crawling tracks. it really depends where it's held. formula toy is rockcrawling but we've gotta cater for the terrain we've got. it would not be racing and the emphasis would be on testing driving ability.

i reckon you could build a very competitive truck for about $5k if you were resourceful enough. and since most of the other trucks are similar, it comes down to teamwork, skill, and luck - not money (unlike Tuff Truck).

read up on the formula toy rules: http://www.formulatoy.com/

Sounds pretty groovy Nam...

I definately think we have some terrain around here that would challenge a little suzuki - particularly once you put down some witches hats to force people onto certain lines

Sadly i think (and i'm sure grimbo will confirm this) that the organisation / insurance factor of running something like this will make it rather implausable

I floated the idea a while ago for Formula Lada or Chockie Box (55 Series)

yep cones change the whole dynamics of it. no b/s rule about touching bunting either!

cheezy has some comps in the pipeline! we can piggy back a few stages. or it could be a non-spectator thing (much simpler).

this is something we have tossed around before. There are a couple of difficulties that need to be sorted. main one is location of events getting harder and harder to run any sort of event that won't blow the budget. Could get around it by not actually having an organised event but just a group of people going 4wheling in exactly the same vehicles all at the same time. What a coincidence?

* Probably need to be swb as they are easier to find (LWB will give an advantage in too many situations)
* Maybe keep to a 33" max to keep breakages down and keep the budget aspect
* Make it a trials type event (if we can find property to run it on - actually there is the property in Berridale that Wendle uses)
* registered no buggies
* maybe actually form a club of all the vehicles (or join Suzuki clubs) to gain access to club insurance and for further helping the 4wd associations in getting these sort of events run

That's all I can think of at the moment but I'm sure I can think of other stuff to add

yeah good ideas so far graham

berridale would be better for nsw/qld zookers too

Nice points there grimbo... I think one of the best points was keeping everything down to a minimum... even to the point of only running 30's, of even smaller tyre sizes and no hoppers - i.e. keep it super basic and super minimal... that would really keep down costs and mean that you don't have to chase super technical (or steep or dangerous) tracks to start challenging people.

I guess there would have to be minimum safety requirements as well .. Cage and helmet ..
*I really like the idea of a 33inch (as spec'd on the tyre not measured) rubber (Less open to individual opinion).

You should be able to get into it for $3000 or so

Great idea ..

so would anyone be actually interested in competing?

i would be very keen personally. anyone else?

i may also be motivated to take on organisation (with lots of help obviously).

I would have to do some serious sweet talking with the handbrake ... but it may be a possability for me ... I know my brother has been keen to get into competeing .. This would be a great place to start ..

Would not be for 8 to 12 months though .. by the time we get the $$ together and get a vehicle sorted ...

Something I would love to do. Might give me the incentive to actually get the Zuk fixed and try and organise something

i'd be keen too - but i can already see that i would have to buy another car to do it in - that's why i'd like to see the maximum requirement kept super low.

That way people could do it on super budgets and run second cars to do it in - i think that would enable you to market it to a larger number of people too.

has the vic suzuki 4wd club still got all the expertise from organising the rhino trophy?

been speaking to cheezy for ideas but he's not the one organising comps. this would definitely need club coverage, or maybe a company would have to be established.

basically myself and Steve were the brains (and i use that word very loosely) behind Rhino so we know whats involved in getting an event like that or similar running.

Sounds interesting if it was nice and cheap id cosider running a rig, id go with start a club , you join the club and compete in the ineer club comps run 4 times a year or what ever.

Keep rigs registered and 33" sounds like a good tire size for max

This is a top idea Nam, I would be in it no worrys
and if you need any help from an organisational stand point I will organise the wet T shirt comp

If it is to remain afordable then can I sugest 33" as a max diameter (leave the width free), any larger on standard diffs and it will get very expensive real quick.

Suzuki 1.3.carby only is good, but I would go further with naturaly aspirated only, (leave the engine internals and exhaust free).

I like the idea of rock hoppers, but as they are expensive I would allow twin transfers or twin gearboxs as well.

I would ditch the hi steer as this is suposed to be a cheap formule and hi steer shouldn't be done on the cheap, if you leave it standard componants it makes scrutenering much simpler.

Your no winching proposal is interesting, what are you trying to achive/avoid with this Nam?

Sounds great.
Peter.

droopypete wrote:Your no winching proposal is interesting, what are you trying to achive/avoid with this Nam?

No winching is a great idea... here's a few good reasons:

1. if you can't drive it, you don't make it - this keeps runs quick and without delays
2. keeps it cheap - winches are expensive
3. increases (sort of) safety - no chances of breaking straps / cables etc
4. no reason to get out of the car - this makes it safer
5. no requirement for a co-pilot - one person in the car only - makes it safer too.

greg wrote:

droopypete wrote:Your no winching proposal is interesting, what are you trying to achive/avoid with this Nam?

No winching is a great idea... here's a few good reasons:

1. if you can't drive it, you don't make it - this keeps runs quick and without delays
2. keeps it cheap - winches are expensive
3. increases (sort of) safety - no chances of breaking straps / cables etc
4. no reason to get out of the car - this makes it safer
5. no requirement for a co-pilot - one person in the car only - makes it safer too.

Ok I see where you are comming from, fair enough.
I agree with reasons 1 to 4, but not #5,
you have to have a spoter sometimes, and how are you going to get mates to help work on your car if you can't reward them on the day?
and if you don't have a passanger in your car Greg, you will always be getting out to hook up the snatch strap to the recovery vehicle .
Peter.

droopypete wrote:Ok I see where you are comming from, fair enough.
I agree with reasons 1 to 4, but not #5,
you have to have a spoter sometimes, and how are you going to get mates to help work on your car if you can't reward them on the day?
and if you don't have a passanger in your car Greg, you will always be getting out to hook up the snatch strap to the recovery vehicle .
Peter.

Nah - i've worked out that i can call RACV from inside my car now

No beadlocks
Std roll cage for roll over protection

good stuff so far guys.

4pt harnesses minimum?

with the gearing issue, how about imposing a maximum crawl ratio (say 120:1 as an example) and letting the competitors choose how they wish to attain their low ratios? sj 4/5 speed manual gearboxes only.

maximum wheelbase 90" to allow for some stretching but not for lwb vehicles?

no body lifts?

no high steer means there will be some z-links or drop pitman arms!

fuel tank to stay in stock location.

this is a very sweet idea Nam

i would definatly been intrested

but id say standard seat belts are allowed instead of harness

allow body lift most zook have them

registered? this would be a little unfair on qld zooks as they cant do spring overs not sayin spua dosent work well

redzook wrote:registered? this would be a little unfair on qld zooks as they cant do spring overs not sayin spua dosent work well

Redzook has a good point... there should be a rule that the car must be UNroadworthy as per qld transport dept rules.

N*A*M wrote:good stuff so far guys.

4pt harnesses minimum?
4 points are a pain in the arse, ok for high speed, but for low speed where you need to look out the side from time to time, forget it!

with the gearing issue, how about imposing a maximum crawl ratio (say 120:1 as an example) and letting the competitors choose how they wish to attain their low ratios? sj 4/5 speed manual gearboxes only.
Sure but make it low.

maximum wheelbase 90" to allow for some stretching but not for lwb vehicles?

no body lifts?
I have no real problems with body lifts on soft top Suzuki's

no high steer means there will be some z-links or drop pitman arms!
Or both, no problem

fuel tank to stay in stock location.

Why?

I have just worked it out, everone is so intimidated by Greg we are drafting all the rules to eliminate him,
1.3 only,
no body lift,
no winch
33" tyre
naturaly asperated,
no bead locks,
stock fuel tank loation,
This is a conpirecy.

Here is the new formula;
92 models only,
must be red (except the yellow bits on the bonnet where the gaffa tape riped the piant off),
must have 1.6, S3 rock hopper, twin ARB's 5.125:1 33x13.5 baja claws.
must have chrome skull gear shift knob (& transfer knob),
absolutly no carpet alowed!
the clock canot, under any curcumstances, work,
sealed beam driving lights only (no exceptions) min of 250w per light,
faint brown stains on drivers seat permitted,
lucky chrome dice and 8ball valve caps,
SPOA only (must have bump stops with no more than 45mm travel)

There you go chaps, all sorted, see you at the starting line
Peter.




Base vehicle SWB or LWB Sierra/Drover
- 1.3L carby only, Greg is out
- Sierra axles only
- Rockhoppers acceptable
- 35" tyres max
- 5.12:1 R&P max
- All lockers okay
- Leaf suspension only
- SPOA okay
- 3/4 elliptical okay
- Standard steering box only
- High steer okay
- 6 pt roll cage
- No winching?

registered does not necessarily mean engineered
but anyway, you don't need SPOA to fit 33s

body lift is not legal in all states either
increase leverage of body on the mounts
also makes cages less effective

what do you reckon?

4pt harnesses minimum?

4 points are a pain in the arse, ok for high speed, but for low speed where you need to look out the side from time to time, forget it!

with the gearing issue, how about imposing a maximum crawl ratio (say 120:1 as an example) and letting the competitors choose how they wish to attain their low ratios? sj 4/5 speed manual gearboxes only.

Sure but make it low.

maximum wheelbase 90" to allow for some stretching but not for lwb vehicles?

no body lifts?
I have no real problems with body lifts on soft top Suzuki's

no high steer means there will be some z-links or drop pitman arms!

Or both, no problem.
Peter.

droopypete wrote:I have just worked it out, everone is so intimidated by Greg we are drafting all the rules to eliminate him,
1.3 only,
no body lift,
no winch
33" tyre
naturaly asperated,
no bead locks,
stock fuel tank loation,
This is a conpirecy.

I noticed that too - but have decided that it's a good excuse to warrant having another dirty, mud dripping and somewhat unroadworthy car blocking up the parking at the appartments i have in

To be honest though - i reckon a car more like the rubber ducky (damien's) would be the funnest way to run this sort of event. as in:
stock tyre size (any tread pattern allowed)
stock suspension (minus sway bar)
welded rear (maybe)

i.e. do not add anything to the car*, only remove things

* - except for safety equipment - roll cage stuff...

Actually i think any sierra, LWB included, maybe 34" tyre maximum, lockers, SPUA (none of this weirdo SPOA stuff ), rockhoppers, cages.