Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Is anyone using Lockrite Lokkas in the rear of a Hilux?

My brother in law's gutlux has just spat the pinion & we have to rebuild it & was wondering if there were any reliability issues with the axles, crownwheel & pinions.

It is a 2.8 no turbo with 32" mudders, its not a super mega rock crawler, more of a touring rig.

I am also interested in if the guys that have them are happy with their operation (noise, clunkyness etc)?

I understand the operation of them so I dont need to know about that, just looking for reliability issues in service in this particular vehicle.

I have searched but the first 5 pages didnt have anything with hiluxes in them.

Thanks in advance ,

MK.

i set one up in the front of my bundy (same centre as the lux.) and it was heavier steering and returned to centre much quicker when you hit the gas. in 4wd hubs in, 2wd drove perfetc and hubs out obviously drove perfect.

pulled it and put an arb in cuz i didnt like ahving the front locked all the time when in a straight line (bit hary on off camber slippery hills)

sold it to a mate and has gone in the rear of a 2.8 4 runner (no turbo) he likes it, drive much the same if you gas it when turning it locks in and you go sideways if you drive nice its a nice reasuring click click click as you go around tight corners, off road has transformed the car. (ifs front)

my 2c worth is if you are a dick and drive like a dick dont get one you will wipe yourself out round a pole on a wet roundabout. if you have a brain then no problem.

also when you set it up ensure the clearences are right (i mean right not she looks ok!)
and that you replace the cross pin with a brand new one. from toyota they are $30 if the other one is worn at all they clucnk and carry on.

obviously it will place more load on your axles but they are big and can handle.

cam

I have a Richmond Lock Rite for sale if you want one.

Thanks big cam. So they still behave like a detroit locker to a certain degree then not like they say in the blurb. As long as the first time the power is fed on it doesnt wind the splines off we will be happy. I was just worried about the sudden locking tourque thats all.

How much jim?

i had one in the front for 12 months, took it out and put it in the rear...

They are great i love them, i find in the wet jst be weary they are there and you'll be fine. I basically drive normally except into roundabouts where i try to be on the gas or not at all...

they are not as bad as every 1 makes out but do click and have the occasional bang.. But all is sweet they do no damage with all the sounnd..

P.S. ive had mine in the rear for bout 12 months also..

Lockright brand exellent / Lokka brand Cheap Poo!!!!!!!!

sierrajim wrote:I have a Richmond Lock Rite for sale if you want one.

Will it fit the rear of an 80 series Landcruiser and if so , how much?

GUEEY wrote:Lockright brand exellent / Lokka brand Cheap Poo!!!!!!!!

They are the same????

Emo wrote:

sierrajim wrote:I have a Richmond Lock Rite for sale if you want one.

Will it fit the rear of an 80 series Landcruiser and if so , how much?

Won't fit the rear, will fit the front.

PM Evil 73 i think he might have a cruiser rear air locker for sale.

sierrajim wrote:I have a Richmond Lock Rite for sale if you want one.

Hi...If your Richmond Lock Rite will fit the front of a 73 series and you still have it i am interested...please let me know if its any good to me and if so how much....Cheers Darren

It won't fit a 73 series, it will fit late model 75 front 91 onwards and hilux front and rear, it will also fit 80 front.

Ben

My brother had one in the back of his diesel 79 shorty for 10 years.
When he changed to a ute (due to rust problems) we found the splines on the axels where about half worn off!!
We put this down to the constant moving / engaging under load.

He ended up chucking the lockright and axels.

You have to wunder are they cost effective? and you do have to change your driving style.

I had "Cheap Poo" Lokka from 4WD Systems in 3L Surf and loved it. Never gave me any grief. Got used plenty, on and off road. Regularly towed 3ton trailer. Sold car and it went with it, but liked it a lot.

try this link,http://www.ausjeepoffroad.com/forum/sho ... hp?t=69770
there's one for sale there(complete diff with lok-rite)$450
plus some other bits and pieces

I was just worried about the sudden locking tourque thats all.

I know you didnt want to be told how they work, but you need to know that they are ALWAYS locked until one wheel tries to go faster than the other (like on a roundabout) then they will UNLOCK not lock.

The clicking noise you can hear is the locker unlocking not suddenly locking up. If you gas it around a roundabout and start spinning tyres it probably wont be able to unlock to help you turn but rather stay locked up and get real tailey (good fun if thats what your trying to do ).

If the tolerences are set up perfect you shouldnt hear it unlocking everytime, you always get some clicks and clunks thats normal and they work great.
Just remember at 100kmh down the highway or a greasy slippery roundabout their fully locked!!!! so drive accordingly and you'll be fine.
[/quote]

I used to have a detroit locker in the rear of a 84 hilux 2.4 turbo. Never had a drama with it breaking anything mechanically, just used to snap front cv's , but never hurt the rear end, only concession is to drive accordingly, i liked the tail happy nature .

chpd 80 wrote:

I was just worried about the sudden locking tourque thats all.

I know you didnt want to be told how they work, but you need to know that they are ALWAYS locked until one wheel tries to go faster than the other (like on a roundabout) then they will UNLOCK not lock.

The clicking noise you can hear is the locker unlocking not suddenly locking up. If you gas it around a roundabout and start spinning tyres it probably wont be able to unlock to help you turn but rather stay locked up and get real tailey (good fun if thats what your trying to do :D ).

If the tolerences are set up perfect you shouldnt hear it unlocking everytime, you always get some clicks and clunks thats normal and they work great.
Just remember at 100kmh down the highway or a greasy slippery roundabout their fully locked!!!! so drive accordingly and you'll be fine.

[/quote]

The above is incorrect and common misinformation.
I wrote a full explanation here after hearing the above for the x00th time
http://neuralfibre.com/paul/?p=162

My Surf was never a problem. My brothers jeep with a Detroit is a bit more harsh - short wheelbase + very positive camming action, but still fine onroad (well - 8" lift + 35" tyres fine - doesn't handle like factory).

Paul

Wow. You've certainly done some homework on that.

I agree what your saying in getting techincal with the
word "locked", but for all intent and purposes "locked"
explains what your feeling, and in a round about sort
of way what is going on with your tyres climbing a rutted
hill for example.

There's no other word to loosely describe whats going on
without writing a thesis on the subject (certainly impressive though).

So ok their not technicaly "locked" but they mimick pretty
damn well what an airlocker or similar does. they just cant
be held on or overridden, which has never been a problem
to me.

Cheers mate.

chpd 80 wrote:Wow. You've certainly done some homework on that.

I agree what your saying in getting techincal with the
word "locked", but for all intent and purposes "locked"
explains what your feeling, and in a round about sort
of way what is going on with your tyres climbing a rutted
hill for example.

There's no other word to loosely describe whats going on
without writing a thesis on the subject (certainly impressive though).

So ok their not technicaly "locked" but they mimick pretty
damn well what an airlocker or similar does. they just cant
be held on or overridden, which has never been a problem
to me.

Cheers mate. :)

Dunno

I have air lockers in the Cruiser and if I switch them on in the rear it gives a far far more agressive effect on the steering than the Lokka used to in the Surf. I did try it in the wet one to see the effect, it still turns, but add 50% to turning circle.

Interestingly on dirt front and rear air locker do little to turning circle if you are going faster then crawl. I did about 20 circles to prove it. Centre lock on other hand made circle wider.

Paul

Out of interest Paul, how much experience have you had with torsen diffs?

In my experience (Hummer H1) they are pretty dumb - when you need both a locked diff and some momentum they are counterproductive as you can't get them to work offectively without braking whilst applying power.

Trying to power up a hill with your foot on the brake is a bit perverse, even for me.

Steve.

PS my preferred setup is spool rear airlocker front.
I am not a big fan of the handling effects constant 4WD has. My road car is constant 4WD with an LSD centre diff and it's fantastic under power but does some slightly strange things on coast.

Gwagensteve wrote:Out of interest Paul, how much experience have you had with torsen diffs?

In my experience (Hummer H1) they are pretty dumb - when you need both a locked diff and some momentum they are counterproductive as you can't get them to work offectively without braking whilst applying power.

Trying to power up a hill with your foot on the brake is a bit perverse, even for me.

Steve.

PS my preferred setup is spool rear airlocker front.
I am not a big fan of the handling effects constant 4WD has. My road car is constant 4WD with an LSD centre diff and it's fantastic under power but does some slightly strange things on coast.

Torsen - only in my dreams. Before I put lockers in though I used to pre-load the LSD with handbrake with medium success (till I smashed the crownwheel)
My centre is open, and I don't own an Audi Quattro to have a torsen centre. I have looked into the vicous centre, but no retrofit to a 100 Series.
The day I can afford a diesel unimog I'll have my torsen's, I believe they run them.
I spoke to Chuck at Haultech years ago about combing their traction control system with a pair of Torsen's - looks like it would make a brillant system, just too many $$$ and hard to get diff centres.

Paul

Torsens work effectively as a limited slip on road cars by permitting only a certain ratio of wheel speed difference. (I don't know the exact principle by which they operate but there's lots of fragile stuff in them) If you have one wheel in the air or a massive difference of grip between one wheel and the other, they will not lock themselves without brakes being used to reduce the speed ratio and make them "grab up"

recommended practise in torsen equipped hummers is basically to stand on both pedals at once in difficult terrain.

audi quattros have been critisised for slightly "floaty" feeling as the diff feeds power between each axle on long constant radius corners. I don't feel this in my STI, but when the car breaks away on a tight corner in a coast situation it does feel a bit inconsistant.

Preloading the LSD with the handbrake is a recommended practice with clutch type LSD's. Toyota alcutally told us to so it in our hiluxes when we complained of poor LSD performance.

Mogs don't use them crossaxle, they open or locked. can't comment on "modern" mogs in relation to a centre diff or whether that is torsen or not.

PS - I centrainly don't dream about torsens. Dad pulled the torsens out of his H1 and fitted airlockers, Airlockers are far superior off road. I just can't see the point of developing HP and torque you need to get up a hill and then having to absorb it all in the brakes to make the diffs work. that's fine on rocks or technical terrain, but on a greasy hill where you need the HP it's just dumb.

Steve.

Did someone say Audi quattro?

Gwagensteve wrote:Torsens work effectively as a limited slip on road cars by permitting only a certain ratio of wheel speed difference. (I don't know the exact principle by which they operate but there's lots of fragile stuff in them) If you have one wheel in the air or a massive difference of grip between one wheel and the other, they will not lock themselves without brakes being used to reduce the speed ratio and make them "grab up"

recommended practise in torsen equipped hummers is basically to stand on both pedals at once in difficult terrain.

audi quattros have been critisised for slightly "floaty" feeling as the diff feeds power between each axle on long constant radius corners. I don't feel this in my STI, but when the car breaks away on a tight corner in a coast situation it does feel a bit inconsistant.

Preloading the LSD with the handbrake is a recommended practice with clutch type LSD's. Toyota alcutally told us to so it in our hiluxes when we complained of poor LSD performance.

Mogs don't use them crossaxle, they open or locked. can't comment on "modern" mogs in relation to a centre diff or whether that is torsen or not.

PS - I centrainly don't dream about torsens. Dad pulled the torsens out of his H1 and fitted airlockers, Airlockers are far superior off road. I just can't see the point of developing HP and torque you need to get up a hill and then having to absorb it all in the brakes to make the diffs work. that's fine on rocks or technical terrain, but on a greasy hill where you need the HP it's just dumb.

Steve.

Torsen - Torque Sensing. Uses the properties of worm gears (drive, but not driven) to create a torque ratio between the sides. Up to 6:1 depending on design. Result is wheel with most traction gets most torque, up to 6:1 ratio. If the ratio is more than that (wheel in the air - 6 x nothing is nothing) then an artificial load is needed. Brakes will do, traction control would be perfect as unlike brakes would only act on the individual wheel.
BUT - I haven't driven it, it's all theory.
Don't suppose that H1 is in Oz?

Funny that Toyota would recommnd it. When I pulled apart the toyota LSD they just use clutch packs and springs to load them. The drive load is not transmitted to the clutch packs.
The Toyota Supra or Nissan Patrol use a bevel on the diff cross shaft to push the packs closed instead / as well as springs. This means more load = tighter LSD. Problem is the patrols have the tailshaft handbrake, so can't use that to pre-load (dunno about all models). Have to use footbrake.

Paul

Well, it was. Dad sold it and it was subsequently involved in a fire - I believe it was written off.

It was one of the 50 that were imported in 1996 by a WA based importer. Dad's was a N/A dual cab.

The actual impetus to fit the airlockers was a broken rear torsen - the worm gears were chipped which led to very inconsistent operation.

torsens work as well as possible in Hummers because of the portal boxes- they allow higher crownwheel speeds than a conventional vehicle. Inboarb brakes also assist in controlling shaft speed more tightly than at the wheel.

Torsens were widely advertised in 80's in the US (when the hummer was under development) but fell out of favour, I believe because in a conventional vehicle, they result in awkward behaviour with lots of unwanted wheelspin. Even on the Hummer with outstanding brakes, it was amazing how much brake pressure was required to make them smooth.

they are now sold as a Zexel-Torsen, but I haven't seen them available as an aftermaket part for years.

Back in the 80's they were Gleason-Torsen.

I acutally think, just like a detroit locker, they are a road car part adapted to an off-raod application and therefore always compromised. they just happened to work particularly well for the perfomance parameters the army required of the Hummer. (mostly to be driven by unskilled, non enthusiast drivers.)

Steve.

Gwagensteve wrote:Well, it was. Dad sold it and it was subsequently involved in a fire - I believe it was written off. :cry:

It was one of the 50 that were imported in 1996 by a WA based importer. Dad's was a N/A dual cab.

The actual impetus to fit the airlockers was a broken rear torsen - the worm gears were chipped which led to very inconsistent operation.

torsens work as well as possible in Hummers because of the portal boxes- they allow higher crownwheel speeds than a conventional vehicle. Inboarb brakes also assist in controlling shaft speed more tightly than at the wheel.

Torsens were widely advertised in 80's in the US (when the hummer was under development) but fell out of favour, I believe because in a conventional vehicle, they result in awkward behaviour with lots of unwanted wheelspin. Even on the Hummer with outstanding brakes, it was amazing how much brake pressure was required to make them smooth.

they are now sold as a Zexel-Torsen, but I haven't seen them available as an aftermaket part for years.

Back in the 80's they were Gleason-Torsen.

I acutally think, just like a detroit locker, they are a road car part adapted to an off-raod application and therefore always compromised. they just happened to work particularly well for the perfomance parameters the army required of the Hummer. (mostly to be driven by unskilled, non enthusiast drivers.)

Steve.

Detroit Tru-track is functionally the same thing.
Toyota had them OEM in Supra rear, and this carrier is supposed to be same as Hilux 8" carrier, making them a possible fitment for Hilux front or 100 series IFS front. Seen one in Japan, but never seen one in a Hilux.

Paul