Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Okay, I probably don't have the funds for this at this point, but hypothetically if you wanted to set up a GU wagon with a chev V8 diesel, which GU would be the one to go for?

What I am getting at is that even though, say, a 2.8 GU is cheaper, it's no good because it's got the pissweak gearbox etc. On the other hand if you were forking for a 4.2TD then you might as well just go with the engine that's in it.

I am thinking an early 4.5 petrol probably has the heavy duty bits but is the likely to be cheap enough to buy with an engine swap in mind.

My thinking is just that a 4.5 petrol, delete the engine and put in a chev diesel, could turn out reasonably close in price to a stock 4.2 diesel anyway.

Bullshit or worth investigating?

[edit changed topic title a bit]

GU 2.8, gut the drive train, you're gunna pull all the weak shiat anyway.


Chev TD + Auto (maybe TH700R4) + adapter + Troll Transfer = GOLD!

^^ $$$-----^^ Cheap(ish)-------------^^ $$$----^^ Cheap

RoldIT wrote:GU 2.8, gut the drive train, you're gunna pull all the weak shiat anyway.


Chev TD + Auto (maybe TH700R4) + adapter + Troll Transfer = GOLD!

^^ $$$-----^^ Cheap(ish)-------------^^ $$$----^^ Cheap

although 4.2 gives you a saleable engine, who is going to buy a 2.8

Tiny wrote:

RoldIT wrote:GU 2.8, gut the drive train, you're gunna pull all the weak shiat anyway.


Chev TD + Auto (maybe TH700R4) + adapter + Troll Transfer = GOLD!

^^ $$$-----^^ Cheap(ish)-------------^^ $$$----^^ Cheap

although 4.2 gives you a saleable engine, who is going to buy a 2.8

Fair call but there would still be a few people in the market for a reasonable klm 2.8 if there's go no more ...

Tiny wrote:

RoldIT wrote:GU 2.8, gut the drive train, you're gunna pull all the weak shiat anyway.


Chev TD + Auto (maybe TH700R4) + adapter + Troll Transfer = GOLD!

^^ $$$-----^^ Cheap(ish)-------------^^ $$$----^^ Cheap

although 4.2 gives you a saleable engine, who is going to buy a 2.8

Hrmm... every time I count on getting money back by selling leftover bits I end up regretting it.

Really, if you had the 4.2 you'd probably be wiser to just turbo it and not bother with the v8 wouldn't you?

Anyway... how about the 4.5 petrol ones? They are actually cheaper than the 2.8TDs as far as I can see... do they have the good drive train bits?

There seem to be okay 4.5's going for sub-$15k now, if you allow even $12k for the diesel conversion you've got a pretty good vehicle for the same price as a lot of the 2.8s and less than a lot of the 4.2s or even the 4.8 petrols...?

4.5 has the same gearbox/transfer as TD42 and TB48. If its going to be a tourer i would look at which engine is going to have readily available parts in remote areas as well as which one will have parts interchangable with others at a stretch.

A TD42 is pretty un-beatable and is the engine i have chosen for my tourer, although it doesnt tour yet

I dont like custom anything especially for reliability but other people swear by it. Each to there own i suppose.

If i was you i would just fine your self a 3L

at least you can use the gearbox, and you have 4.3 diffs

With the 3L there is more chance of finding one thats shagged and its going to be a new model.

personally i wouldnt bother with a v8 diesel i would just have well setup 4.2.

cost of the V8 conversion you could have a rebuilt 4.2, new turbo pump... and then your car has a better re-sale value.

Personally i think the v8 diesel is just wank factor but thats my opinion.

like weeman said look for a zd30 POS, they have the bigger gearbox in them already, why you v8 deisel? if you buy a car for resale value you are best leaving it stock. also have to remember most v8 deisels redline st 3200 rpm so not a real fast machine unless your talkin big $

Interesting thoughts guys. I agree with all the points raised (even the ones that contradict each other); was just thinking geez, what can be done with the GUs out there that have so-so engines?

Or has anyone found a way to rebuild a ZD30 and make it bulletproof and grunty?

The main reason I honed in on TB45 models is that they seem to be the cheapest, the 2.8 and 3.0 diesels still sell for a good ten grand more. The TB45s are getting into the price range that I personally would consider affordable/justifiable, the TB48s and TD42s are just not there yet for a cheapskate like me.

ps I would never be so nutty as to buy a car for resale value

RoldIT wrote:GU 2.8, gut the drive train, you're gunna pull all the weak shiat anyway.


Chev TD + Auto (maybe TH700R4) + adapter + Troll Transfer = GOLD!


^^ $$$-----^^ Cheap(ish)-------------^^ $$$----^^ Cheap

I looked at the 2.8 which can be had for sub $10k stock.

For Brunswicks agent in Melbourne to fit drive in/drive out with a 6.5 Chev non turbo and a rebuilt 4.2 GQ Auto box with Rodneys tricked Valve body etc was $23k - engineered..

chimpboy wrote:Interesting thoughts guys. I agree with all the points raised (even the ones that contradict each other); was just thinking geez, what can be done with the GUs out there that have so-so engines?

Or has anyone found a way to rebuild a ZD30 and make it bulletproof and grunty?

The main reason I honed in on TB45 models is that they seem to be the cheapest, the 2.8 and 3.0 diesels still sell for a good ten grand more. The TB45s are getting into the price range that I personally would consider affordable/justifiable, the TB48s and TD42s are just not there yet for a cheapskate like me.

ps I would never be so nutty as to buy a car for resale value

No my point is a little bit different, i think you should buy a GU 3L with a dud motor for less than 10k and do the conversion.

bogged wrote:

RoldIT wrote:GU 2.8, gut the drive train, you're gunna pull all the weak shiat anyway.


Chev TD + Auto (maybe TH700R4) + adapter + Troll Transfer = GOLD!


^^ $$$-----^^ Cheap(ish)-------------^^ $$$----^^ Cheap

I looked at the 2.8 which can be had for sub $10k stock.

For Brunswicks agent in Melbourne to fit drive in/drive out with a 6.5 Chev non turbo and a rebuilt 4.2 GQ Auto box with Rodneys tricked Valve body etc was $23k - engineered..

was that 23k including the price of the car im guessing?

j-top paj wrote:

bogged wrote:

RoldIT wrote:GU 2.8, gut the drive train, you're gunna pull all the weak shiat anyway.


Chev TD + Auto (maybe TH700R4) + adapter + Troll Transfer = GOLD!


^^ $$$-----^^ Cheap(ish)-------------^^ $$$----^^ Cheap

I looked at the 2.8 which can be had for sub $10k stock.

For Brunswicks agent in Melbourne to fit drive in/drive out with a 6.5 Chev non turbo and a rebuilt 4.2 GQ Auto box with Rodneys tricked Valve body etc was $23k - engineered..

was that 23k including the price of the car im guessing?

You'd want it to be, but I don't think that's what Bruce was saying.

j-top paj wrote:was that 23k including the price of the car im guessing?

fuck no! thats just the conversion.

bogged wrote:

j-top paj wrote:was that 23k including the price of the car im guessing?

***** no! thats just the conversion.

To be honest that seems a bit excessive to me, at least if you are willing to put a used/reco'd motor in. A good 6.5 can be bought for $6k or so, I really struggle to see where $17k goes in doing a conversion, even with a fair bit of skilled labour.

I could be wrong, but where do you reckon all that money goes?

23k for a motor and box? what else do you get with it?
23k seems a bit much i think

j-top paj wrote:23k for a motor and box? what else do you get with it?
23k seems a bit much i think

i agree they dont produce that much power.

Auto for around 5k manualised from a GU (should you wish to go this way) manual be much cheaper.

motor 6-8k

I would still stick with a nissan donk and a good turbo setup.

23K would be similar to te 16K portal axles They have it, they know you want it, tey charge like a wounded bull! End of story.

You'd never recover anything like the cost in resale after a few years driving . Even if you got the Gu nearly free!

Go the 4.2.

Just a question Chimpboy, why go with the 6.5? They are nothing special in power terms, have a number of design compromises due to being a dieselised petrol, don't really make much power (or torque, at peak, but they are torquey off idle)

They are really noisy, and bulky to fit.

If you really want a North American diesel, why not go with A Cummins 6BTA? these are heaps more durable than a 6.5, make more power and torque, and (should) be easier to fit as the engine bay will already take a 6. (they were also sold here in industrial applications, whereas the 6.5 is confined to small volume importers)

I've never really liked these motors except for the exhaust noise Dad had one in his '96 hummer and it did the job fine, but they just feel a bit, well, fragile or something.

Steve.

if you check out Marks 4wd adaptors website you'll find costings on the parts required.And under project vehicles theres a full run down on an install into a gq. total cost was around 20k

sounds like you should stay away from the conversions and just buy the one you want?

weeman wrote:If i was you i would just fine your self a 3L

at least you can use the gearbox, and you have 4.3 diffs

.

I thought the 3.0L's had 4.6 diffs like the 2.8L's. Can anyone confirm this.


no good me renting a patrol for the weekend, swapping crown and pinion gears with the gq if their only 4.3's

ive driven a 6.5 chev turbo gu ute back to back with a std 4.2 turbo gu - then driven the gu ute with a $2K power upgrade...

the chev in gear performance is awesome...... but its rev range is limited - you need to be careful of the diff ratios.

the std gu seemed like a bit of a slug after that....

but comparing apples to apples - the tweaked 4.2 motor is prob more flexible and a better everyday driver....

not to mention easier for parts - insurance - resale etc...


did you know you lose front axle travel during the 6.5 conversion
and the turbo outlet runs SUPER close to the cab firewall
and there is major overheating issues if not done correctly...


and $23K is the drive in drive out price for the conversion. regoed/engineered/warrantied.
Thats a fair price considering how much work and knowledge is involved.



even if you spend $10K getting a good 4.2 turbo gu rather than a busted motor gu - IMHO its a far better deal.....

bj on roids wrote:sounds like you should stay away from the conversions and just buy the one you want?

Sounds like it!

It just seems like a shame that there's nothing you can do to take the cheaper 2.8 and 4.5 GUs and make them adequate.

why has noone ever tried to put a bigger 6 into a patrol? like a cummins or even a isusu truck motor. far more versitle and drivable power from these motors. and common aussie truck engines so spares are easy to find.

other option i guess is a gen3or the like on gas. or turbo gas is pretty common now too

Not long had my Gu back with the 6.5 (no turbo) fitted. Sent it to WA after engine spat it... $25K including transport to/from Syd, engine (from custom radiator, motor, alt, power steer, a/c pump, high torque starter, bellhousing adapter), new front diff centre and full rear diff (disc to disc). All a very nice and neat job by the Brunswick Diesel guys. The motor from Brunswick is also stripped down, crack tested, rebuilt - without any electronics - with all new parts.

Am very happy with the set up, although I would have gone the Cummins if it was a viable option here in Aus. The only reason it's not viable is that no-one is speciallising in them like the Chev's here... I started looking at options last year when I was in the US, and as much as the septics are into V8's, the real serious guys all said to go for the Cummins (325Hp 660lb-ft). A Duramax would be great, but very expensive and is just a bit too long for the engine bay... but if money was no object, this would be the go (310Hp 590lb-ft STANDARD! plus 155Hp & 385lb-ft with a Banks kit!!) But then again, all of these are computer controlled, where-as the 6.5L from Brunswick is retroed to remove this stuff (to me, an essential move for reliability compared to the ZD30)

I also spoke to Nick Mannel about getting a GQ motor re-built for my truck (apparently the toughest block by Nissan). But you can't put a motor in a vehicle in NSW that is older than the vehicle itself - it's to do with emmission laws...

If you're not up for some muckng around and/or cash, then just settle for a compromise... after all, we all do to some extent!

chimpboy wrote:It just seems like a shame that there's nothing you can do to take the cheaper 2.8 and 4.5 GUs and make them adequate.

hey

chimpboy wrote:To be honest that seems a bit excessive to me, at least if you are willing to put a used/reco'd motor in. A good 6.5 can be bought for $6k or so, I really struggle to see where $17k goes in doing a conversion, even with a fair bit of skilled labour.

I could be wrong, but where do you reckon all that money goes?

That was with a reconditioned motor and warranty.

This is why I went with the trusty old TD42... It would have ended up blowing out to $30+k and it was still a 1998 model GU...

I dont have the email (if it was email, was over 12 mths ago) from Ross Lyon anymore, but heres the original ESTIMATE email from Brunswick (the actual itemised quote from the bloke in Warrigul was quite different when you go Auto, manual is thousands cheaper)..

Nissan 2.8 requires diff and gearbox changes.
TB45E 4.5lt is cheaper as a auto $3000 (plus mods by Wholesale automatics)

Estimate for engine ersion $18500.00 we have Ross Lyon Motors over there that has fitted a few.

With the conversion we match engine year to year of vehicle this is a requirement in some states.
Feel free to email any further questions.
Sue

do you have a members thread bogged?

j-top paj wrote:do you have a members thread bogged?

nope.
did for GQ...