Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Making a roll bar and im running it all the way and bolting it onto the chassie... my question is what size plate should i weld the end onto and how many bolts at what size should i mount it with... im just worried bout going too many to big and weakening the chassis.

Grab the CAMS manual and make it to the proper specs. Everything is in there.
Normally the rollbar is mounted to the body, not the chassis, as they need to move independently.

Paul

dumb question... whats the CAMS manual?

Confederation of australian motorsport.

You can also look in the CCDA regs, but they tend to reference cams too.

Chassis mounting a cage through a body is pretty fraught. It can lead to floor cracking etc or you end up with big holes in the floor for the cage to pass through.

I'm not sure I would recommend chassis mounting an internal cage in a car like a GQ.

Steve.

where can we get a copy of the cams manual?

There isn't really "one" manual - it all depends on the class of competition you are doing- of course a CAMS approved cage for a V8 supercar isn't the same cage they require for a autocross car.

CCDA regs outline what is acceptable for them. Last time i read CCDA rules they didn't specify that the cage had to be CAMS approved, but did provide guidelines for what was acceptable which are generally similar to what CAMS require.

Bear in mind that a cage that is both (or either) CCDA and CAMS compliant might be totally illegal for road use.

The registration authority in you state will provide guidelines for acceptable clearances etc. It is often very hard to comply with these for a 6 point cage.

Also consider that an internal cage is designed to prevent the cabin of the vehicle crushing in. As they reduce the free room inside the vehicle, unless the driver is in a harness and wearing a helmet, they may actually increase the risk of serious injury to the driver if they strike the cage with their head wile the vehicle is rolling.

Do not take the fabrication of a cage lightly.

Steve.

Gwagensteve wrote:Confederation of australian motorsport.

You can also look in the CCDA regs, but they tend to reference cams too.

Chassis mounting a cage through a body is pretty fraught. It can lead to floor cracking etc or you end up with big holes in the floor for the cage to pass through.

I'm not sure I would recommend chassis mounting an internal cage in a car like a GQ.

Steve.

sorry i think u misunderstood...or maybey i didnt explain well enough.. its a roll bar on a tray back... going to be outside the body.. n while im on the topic... if i got 60mm OD pipe... at 3.6mm wall thickness.. and i hire a hydrollic pipe bender ( the jack type one) and the hire mob only has a 65mm die. Will that be sufficent enough? or will it fuck the bend... i reckon it will struggle to bend it but hoping it will do a neat job.

the cams book I had had a shit load of different regs on different spec cages for different classes, everything from gemini class to offroad racing to V8 super car to improved production is in there. Cost about $80. As far as a roll bar 60mm is heaps n with 3.6 wall will be heavy, 6mm plate for the feet will be sufficient n 2 m12 bolts will be enough or 4 m10 bolts be corner. The plate size is not always the factor for strenth its the design of the mount.

No worries, wasn't clear from you question.

I would normally use 100X100 plates for chassis mounts.

Steve.

thanks guys... so a 65mm former should be fine for 60mm pipe then?

It will flatten the tube in the bends. I'm sure it will work, but it might nor look the best.

Try it on a short piece of tube before you get stuck into a big length.

Steve.

nastytroll wrote:the cams book I had had a shit load of different regs on different spec cages for different classes, everything from gemini class to offroad racing to V8 super car to improved production is in there. Cost about $80. As far as a roll bar 60mm is heaps n with 3.6 wall will be heavy, 6mm plate for the feet will be sufficient n 2 m12 bolts will be enough or 4 m10 bolts be corner. The plate size is not always the factor for strenth its the design of the mount.

Ahhem

Why perchance did you start your range of vehicles with Gemini's being at the bottom????

Paul
ex Gemini Qld Rally Competitor

Gwagensteve wrote:It will flatten the tube in the bends. I'm sure it will work, but it might nor look the best.

Try it on a short piece of tube before you get stuck into a big length.

Steve.

bummer!!! needs to be neat! anybody know where one would purchase a 60mm former?

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nastytroll wrote:
the cams book I had had a shit load of different regs on different spec cages for different classes, everything from gemini class to offroad racing to V8 super car to improved production is in there. Cost about $80. As far as a roll bar 60mm is heaps n with 3.6 wall will be heavy, 6mm plate for the feet will be sufficient n 2 m12 bolts will be enough or 4 m10 bolts be corner. The plate size is not always the factor for strenth its the design of the mount.


Ahhem

Why perchance did you start your range of vehicles with Gemini's being at the bottom????

Paul
ex Gemini Qld Rally Competitor


Becuase Paul the gemini series is a gemini only event that is an entry level event and requires a a more simple cage than a V8 supercar. As weight is a factor and a gemini is alot lighter than a commo or coon less bracing is required, but as you seem to know everything else you should have known this too. The gemini series is a circuit race on tar sealed tracks eg Qld raceway, morgan park ect.
You seem to be able to think as far as the end of you nose, cos if you could see any further you would look into something before opening your mouth. Try and help some one istead of posting useless comments.

ROGQ wrote:

Gwagensteve wrote:It will flatten the tube in the bends. I'm sure it will work, but it might nor look the best.

Try it on a short piece of tube before you get stuck into a big length.

Steve.

bummer!!! needs to be neat! anybody know where one would purchase a 60mm former?

Just get the main hoop bent at a metal fab shop.
They will probably charge $60 - $70 an hour will probably take 1/2 hour max so your looking at about $40 I reckon.
Unless you are making the whole tray out of that size.
The cheap benders are good at doing up to 40nb pipe any bigger and you are pushing it.

good advice ausyota- there are certainly some shops in melbourne that just do bending and would whip this out in minutes. They will also not only do it neater than we could with our hand operated gear, but they will often be able to pull a tighter radius too, which looks much more professional.

Steve.

In brisbane there are two benders I know of 1 at carol park and 1 at mansfeild, cant remember there names tho

60mm looks good ! But You could make a roll bar out of seamless in a much smaller O.D. ..?
At my work we mandrel bend only a few sizes, they seem to be pretty common for what we make = cheaper ? 47.6mm od and much larger 3 inch stuff

ROGQ wrote:

Gwagensteve wrote:It will flatten the tube in the bends. I'm sure it will work, but it might nor look the best.

Try it on a short piece of tube before you get stuck into a big length.

Steve.

bummer!!! needs to be neat! anybody know where one would purchase a 60mm former?

Work out your design and rough sizes your wanting for a pipe and where the bends and kind of bends required.

Then goto a fab shop with a mandrel bender then get your bends pre-made then sort out your straights and bends on the ground for the main support weld them up then install the main loop/support pipe then run 2 straight pipes from the main loop/support pipe then weld on 45deg bends then just run and weld the support pipes in the back end.

use that for an example.

To make it cheaper I suppose is make the main support in 1 part then have the other pipes notched or something but could be hard carting it around.

zagan wrote:

ROGQ wrote:

Gwagensteve wrote:It will flatten the tube in the bends. I'm sure it will work, but it might nor look the best.

Try it on a short piece of tube before you get stuck into a big length.

Steve.

bummer!!! needs to be neat! anybody know where one would purchase a 60mm former?

Work out your design and rough sizes your wanting for a pipe and where the bends and kind of bends required.

Then goto a fab shop with a mandrel bender then get your bends pre-made then sort out your straights and bends on the ground for the main support weld them up then install the main loop/support pipe then run 2 straight pipes from the main loop/support pipe then weld on 45deg bends then just run and weld the support pipes in the back end.

use that for an example.

To make it cheaper I suppose is make the main support in 1 part then have the other pipes notched or something but could be hard carting it around.

to make it cheaper ... your kidding right ?
If you are going to make it, make it properly and make the main hoop from a continuious section. The only welds should be the supports and the feet.

cheers 4 all inputs... anybody dealt with australian pipe benders on west mt cotton rd brissy? gonna give them a go i think.

ausyota wrote:

ROGQ wrote:

Gwagensteve wrote:It will flatten the tube in the bends. I'm sure it will work, but it might nor look the best.

Try it on a short piece of tube before you get stuck into a big length.

Steve.

bummer!!! needs to be neat! anybody know where one would purchase a 60mm former?

Just get the main hoop bent at a metal fab shop.
They will probably charge $60 - $70 an hour will probably take 1/2 hour max so your looking at about $40 I reckon.
Unless you are making the whole tray out of that size.
The cheap benders are good at doing up to 40nb pipe any bigger and you are pushing it.

Mate i just got quoted $275 + GST too bend my roll bar! its got 6 bends in it. Does that soud right?

Is tha bending only or aupply material and bend?

Steve.

Thats bending only.. i got the steel waiting to be bent.