Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Well it's been a long time comin but i know have a transfer case with reduction gears in my hot little hands!

Now some questions! I have searched but it sort of went in one ear out the other so i'f people post up i'm sure to read them as it's my topic!

Q1 How exactly do you brace it? People say you should brace it by welding something somewhere!

Q2 That plate thing! Apparently it does something like make it stronger or something! Is worth getting one?

Q3 What type of oil do i need? My lockers need hypoyd or what ever oil thought these might need some special oil too?

Q4 There already in the box how long do you reckon to change over?

THANKS HEAPS!

suzuki boy wrote:Well it's been a long time comin but i know have a transfer case with reduction gears in my hot little hands!

Now some questions! I have searched but it sort of went in one ear out the other so i'f people post up i'm sure to read them as it's my topic!

Q1 How exactly do you brace it? People say you should brace it by welding something somewhere!

Q2 That plate thing! Apparently it does something like make it stronger or something! Is worth getting one?

Q3 What type of oil do i need? My lockers need hypoyd or what ever oil thought these might need some special oil too?

Q4 There already in the box how long do you reckon to change over?

THANKS HEAPS!

question 1 is basically question 2. if you wanted more then weld a brace from that to under the t-case then onto both mounting arms.

question 2, you cannot go wrong with one of these. bang for buck

question 3, you can use normal gear oil.

question 4 if its the same case and flanges around 10 mins will do the job, not mare than a half hour with some probs.

cheers mark

mud4b wrote:

suzuki boy wrote:Well it's been a long time comin but i know have a transfer case with reduction gears in my hot little hands!

Now some questions! I have searched but it sort of went in one ear out the other so i'f people post up i'm sure to read them as it's my topic!

Q1 How exactly do you brace it? People say you should brace it by welding something somewhere!

Q2 That plate thing! Apparently it does something like make it stronger or something! Is worth getting one?

Q3 What type of oil do i need? My lockers need hypoyd or what ever oil thought these might need some special oil too?

Q4 There already in the box how long do you reckon to change over?

THANKS HEAPS!

question 4 if its the same case and flanges around 10 mins will do the job, not mare than a half hour with some probs.

cheers mark

10 mins i highley doubt you can pull up in a car have the tcase swapped and everything right to drive off in 10 minutes

at home not in a shop by yourself for the first time it will take you around an hour atleast

redzook wrote:

mud4b wrote:

suzuki boy wrote:Well it's been a long time comin but i know have a transfer case with reduction gears in my hot little hands!

Now some questions! I have searched but it sort of went in one ear out the other so i'f people post up i'm sure to read them as it's my topic!

Q1 How exactly do you brace it? People say you should brace it by welding something somewhere!

Q2 That plate thing! Apparently it does something like make it stronger or something! Is worth getting one?

Q3 What type of oil do i need? My lockers need hypoyd or what ever oil thought these might need some special oil too?

Q4 There already in the box how long do you reckon to change over?

THANKS HEAPS!

question 4 if its the same case and flanges around 10 mins will do the job, not mare than a half hour with some probs.

cheers mark

10 mins i highley doubt you can pull up in a car have the tcase swapped and everything right to drive off in 10 minutes

at home not in a shop by yourself for the first time it will take you around an hour atleast

yeah i secon that pulling a case in and out is a pia job

Cheers guys!

Does any one have pics of the bracing that i should do?

Some one off here sells those plates don't they?

Doesn't look hard to change the case will be doing it with a mechanic so he makes sure i don't go wrong but how long to change flanges over?(If i have too)

Thanks guys keep it comin!

Have a look at WWW.LOWRANGEOFFROAD.COM in the Samurai driveline section there is a couple of different transfer case mounts to look at.

Cheers mate will check it out!

I lurve the Rocktoy transfer case ring but for your application I think it might be A) Heaps of work to fit B) Overkill for a car with 31's.

Reinforcing the arm is a 2 step process. The bend it two places.

The long arm bends between the 2 doglegs. I reinforce them like this:



What wasn't fitted in this photo is a tab from the arm to the front output section bolts. I haven't seen one bend once its braced like this.

Once that has been done, the tension side (the passenger side) arm starts to bend. I guess you can brace this too, but personally, I like a fuse in the system. the people who have massively strengthened their mounts seem to start breaking cases.

Mart (Blownzook) built a super heavy duty mount that used the handbrake holes on the back of the case. This obviously isn't an option for you with an NT or anyone that wants to run a disconnect.

PS always buy genuine suzuki transfer mounts unless you go to a through bolted urethane type option. I have seen some chinese transfer mounts and they last minutes in a car with big tyres on hard terrain.

You can go right under the case with a brace but be careful about welding distorting the mount and making alignment of the transfer mounts etc a hassle. Those arms and the rubber mounts are designed to be the weak link and I don't think that anyone with stock arms etc has ever broken a case. It'd be a real show stopper.

Gwagensteve your a hero! Thanks heaps!

So why do the cases tend to bend or what ever? Is it just the added talk?

So it's not worth me doing this plate thing? Will probably only go to 32's max!

Like it how its goin now so with gears and 31's i think i'll be extrmly happy with it!

CHEERS GUYS KEEP IT COMING!

I was told to run VMX80 in the transfer and gearbox , and haven't had a problem , also have had two transfer cases shred the mounts with standard drive line and 30's , 1 actually bent the gear shifter about 90 degrees , they let go on the drivers side mount which brakes completely away from the transfer case and allows it to rotate , as steve said buy genuine mounts or go the bolt through method but it is advisable to beef up the mounts or buy a kit to do so , I have used offset angle iron 75 x 50 x 6 to make a copy of the original drivers side mount with the bolt through mount style. The idea of leaving the passenger side mount as a weak spot is ok as it will only bend as the transfer travels up on that side and if the mount bends it will eventually hit the floor and stop. So if you have gears don't just wack the case in , do a little homework and change the mounts , also the wrong gear oil will cause more harm than you think , such as play in the gears and transfer noise , Cheers Paul.

while you have the new transfer out maybe look at putting in a new shifter bush and locator bolt.. for the sake of 20 bucks may save you getting stuck and fiddling with getting out of neutral in the middle of nowhere..
good luck and update the thread with your outcomes bud

This thread needs photos , Cheers Paul.

Another couple options...

http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content?P=dbbe ... ic=22730.0

http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/content?P=dbbe ... ic=62544.0

I haven't had any probs with the mounts in mine although i don't have locked front or rear

Thanks guys this is really great help!

The guy that will help me put them in can weld so io will go through all the site and find out all the places i should beef up!

I know the oil is imprtant thats why i asked cause the oil i put in for the lockers is way different to normal diff oil!

My old transfer(still in the car) has a new selector bush in it thats about a month old! Thanks for that didn't even think of swapping that over!

Maybe if this gets more pics wack it in the bible as it covers nearly every thing?

THANKS GUYS KEEP IT COMIN!

ok sorry i didnt think about people that dont have a hoist and need to lay on the ground to pull a t-case out.. so yeah 10 mins in that instance is way underkill.. sorry bud..

as for more pics this is what i done, i used to run 31 " 33" 35" and 37" double locked and never had a t-case fail. i also agree on the std mounts to a point. i did use the bolt straight through on all 3 mounts but ended up changing back to std mounts on the long arm and bolt through on the short side. this kept the case aligned but did not allow it to break.

also chris/ rocktoy has the rings.


notice the 3 bolts towards the front of the case also bolt to the bucket.

I assume this extra bracing of the T-case is because the reduction gears massivly increase torque output.

Should all vehicles with T-gears rienforce there mounts, or is it more applicable for people with lockers and certain size tyres etc? Its gotta be cheaper to replace the mount if it bends or breaks, then get a new T-case, so is using it sacrificially a wise approach?

Thanks for all the held guys!

On the way home from work today i was thinkin......

The transfer case would have a breather somewhere! I havn't looked hard at it yet just opened up the box and made sure it was there! I SHOULD PUT AN EXTENDED BREATHER ON IT SHOULDN'T I?

I'm gonna start in about half an hour! Probably just drop the old one out!
CHEERS GUYS!

Well it's out! Probably took about half an hour to get it out!

It's pretty much all 12mm spanner work! Not the hardest thing i've done!

Can you beef up the mounts when it's in the car or not really? Am hoping to have them in by thursday night!

Cant wait!

Do the mounts while they are out. Check they are straight first. Last time i did some mounts for a mate, they were already bent when he gave them to me . Once you get used to pulling them in and out, it should take your about 30 min for a complete R&R on the ground.

Layto....

isnt there a transfer "ring" or something that needs to be made? it surrounds the case and is bolted to it?

cap51z has one, there was a pic in his members thread but its gone now

the rngs are from Rocktoy, but I feel they are a bit over the top for a small tyred car.

Beef the compression (drivers) side, leave the tension side alone and use factory rubbers. Carry a couple of urethane spring or shock rubbers and some 10mm bolts for if you break a mount.

Breather - as per ususal, there is a hard way and an easy way -

On the very top of the case is a small cap like a diff breather. You can see it on the top of the case in my photo. This cap can be prised off and there is a very small barb on here than will just take a hose and hose clamp, but its not ideal.
This is the easy way.

The hard way is to pull the barb out - its just pressed in, and tap the case with a 1/4" BSP tap. Then you can thread an elbow in. However, to do this, you would either want to pull the case apart to work just on the bare case 1/2, or maybe tap it with the case upside down, and then flush it through with more oil- ther eis a risk the swarf from cutting the tread might trash a bearing or something.

You really need a breather - water ingress is the #1 cause of case failure.

I drained my breatherless case (no hose on the barb) after a recent highcountry trip and there was about 500ml of water in it.


Steve.

I got my brackets from Spidertrax as exchange rate is pretty good at the moment on credit card

The new bracket also bolts onto the transfer in more places than standard.


As for bending brackets and braking mounts I have done it all with 31"s I am now looking at a new system as of bracing above for more strength, as I am bending the brackets that the long arm mounts to from the chassis.

that picture shows the extra tab that picks up the two front output cover bolts really well.

Bending the chassis brackets with 31's

steve.

I don't understand how people don't bend these things more often , I guess one way might be I have detroits so it is always rear locked , I guess on road being locked you would get certain streeses related to road driving , using the engine a a break when slowing down so maybe this is a factor in the bent mounts , shreaded housings.

This is my last effort , it had a 13 mm plate replacement left mount with a gussett and it just bent and snapped the mount straight out of the case , the gears survived and are still in the car.



This is the hill where it happened , there was litlle rock and mostly soil but it was quite steep , took 3 goes to get over the top lip and once up didn't think anything was wrong. We were chatting about the hill and walked back and my mate spotted a piece of alloy , then we went looking and found the broken mount.



Since making the cradle I have had no dramas as a ring would not fit as my transfer is angled in the car to allow for the hilux diffs.



Cheers Paul.

Gwagensteve wrote: Bending the chassis brackets with 31's

steve.

that is driving on rocks for ya

redzook wrote:

Gwagensteve wrote: Bending the chassis brackets with 31's

steve.

that is driving on rocks for ya

I think its more hitting rocks rather than driving over them

Steve

Gwagensteve wrote:the rngs are from Rocktoy, but I feel they are a bit over the top for a small tyred car.

hes running 36" pedes, but i think he was saying he got one made because if the calmini 6.5 gears or something? too expensive to risk breaking if the case splits

MUD-PIGSIERRA wrote:I got my brackets from Spidertrax as exchange rate is pretty good at the moment on credit card

The new bracket also bolts onto the transfer in more places than standard.

whats one worth?

Gwagensteve wrote:

redzook wrote:
that is driving on rocks for ya

I think its more hitting rocks rather than driving over them

Steve

LMFAO!!!!
i had a case made the same as mark's and never realy had a issue.. actualy i think i copied marks in the makeing of it
but on my new one it will be a rock toy ring
i would say anything up to or over 31's should have one!!
Phil

Cost $134.95 US exchange rate has been better than ever though, so I thought it was worth it in terms of the time I would spend making one.

Under weak links and strong fixes, I also got the bush kit that replaces the other side which is only joined by rubber not a bolt through the middle.
http://www.spidertrax.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.243/.f

On breaking the transfer casing as Mart posted maybe it is better having something that will bend or snap that can be replaced easier than breaking the actual transfer casing........

Most of my breaks have been on near vertical climbs or rock ledges and the Zook has started bouncing, plus I have locked front and rear.