Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Posted: **Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:59 pm**

Hi im new and i have cheked the bible and such, but they all talk of leaf springs. I own a VERY clean coil sprung 98 sierra. The front has sagged like a bitch and the overall ride is terrible. I wanto get a 2" lift but am not sure wat is best. Im kinda have limited moneys too :( Not sure what is better, OME, King, Ironman or EFS. Iv been quoted for kings $162 a pair while ironmans for $130 pair. I would occasionally pull my boat which is about 400-500 kg so i dont want the back to sag after a year or so.

ANY help would gladly be taken into account and very much appreciated!!!

Thanks, D.

Posted: **Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:39 pm**

You don't need heavy duty springs to tow a trailer if it is set up properly. There are legal limits on weight on the towball. On a 500kg gross trailer it would be about 20-30kg. IMHO Not enough extra weight to warrant heavy duty springs. My Suzi is leaf so sorry I can't recommend any coils.

Posted: **Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:56 pm**

yeh my towball capacity is 50kg.

Posted: **Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:15 am**

Check your max legal towing, from memory a sierra is 450KG, which means your 500kg boat is illegal. There is a thread on towing in the bible.

Layto....

Posted: **Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:57 am**

Umm all iw anted is to know the best springs to use for a lift....and if it will be able to withstand the weight of a trailer behind it, not if its illigal or not.

Posted: **Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:15 am**

You are sort of answering you own question though -

Nothing is going to make the car behave nicely with more than the rated tongue weight on it.

OME don't offer a front strut for coil sierras. You might be able to use OME Jimny springs and maybe rear shocks though.

The suspension design of the coil sierras is poor and suffers from a number of compromises. Avoid excessive lift, this only exacerbates the problem.

How do you know it has sagged? They have very little compression travel in the front from stock.

The springs are only 1/2 the problem. The big issue is getting a quality shock in the front end. they are a strut style and have to be very small diameter. I have seen custom Koni's built for the application but they are expensive.

The best riding coil cars don't IMHO ride much better than a leaf car that's well set up, but they do handle with more precision.

Remember you have 10 year old front shocks. Putting a stiffer, taller spring in there is pointless.

Personally, I would get a complete kit from someone and stick to their recommendations. If you don't like the way it works, take it back until they get it right. Mixing and matching (also known as the "outerlimits method") Is unlikely to get the result you are after.

Most people on here are chasing height and travel and in all honesty, are OK for their cars to drive like crap so long as they do the goods in the bush. Towing would really make them misbehave.

Just my 2C

Steve.

Posted: **Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:32 pm**

Well thanks alot for all your help, i will have to get new shox and bushes and stuff but i guess ill put it off for a little while. I know some people with kings so ill guess ill stick with them. I have also been told rancho makes shocks for the front so probably use them. And seeing as sierras do ride bad on road, ill get normal and not heavy duty springs.

Thanks though

D

Posted: **Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:37 pm**

kings sag quick and no better than standard i have been happiest with pedders springs in my coily.

just basically i know kings are crap so that narrows your choice

Posted: **Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:57 pm**

Gwagensteve wrote:
You might be able to use OME Jimny springs and maybe rear shocks though.
JIMNY SPRINGS ARE TO WIDE BECAUSE THEY HAVE A SEPERATE SHOCK AND SPRING SET UP NOT A STRUT THEY ARE SAME SIZE AS VITARA REARS

The suspension design of the coil sierras is poor and suffers from a number of compromises. Avoid excessive lift, this only exacerbates the problem.
TRUE BUT IF YOU WANT OVER 2 INCH LIFT CAN BE DONE BY CUSTOM CONTROL ARMS WITH CASTOR CORRECTION< MINE HANDLES BETTER THAN STANDARD.

How do you know it has sagged? They have very little compression travel in the front from stock.
MINE SAGGED I COULD SEE IT AND IT LOOKED STUPID

The springs are only 1/2 the problem. The big issue is getting a quality shock in the front end. they are a strut style and have to be very small diameter. I have seen custom Koni's built for the application but they are expensive.
YEAH I JUST PUT IN JIMNY MOUNTS AND RUN PRO COMPS< BUT YOU CAN MACHINE OUT THE COIL SEATS AND WELD THEM ONTO A LARGER SHOCK IF YOU FIND SOMEONE TO DO IT I KNOW OF RANCHO'S THAT HAVE BEEN DONE.

The best riding coil cars don't IMHO ride much better than a leaf car that's well set up, but they do handle with more precision.
MINE RIDES BETTER THAN MY LEAFY BUT IT"S A WHOLE DIFFERENT STORY

Remember you have 10 year old front shocks. Putting a stiffer, taller spring in there is pointless.
MINE WAS BETTER WITH BETTER SPRINGS UNTILL I COULD SORT OUT SHOCKS ESPECIALLY IN REGURDS TO THE CAR SITTING LEVEL.

Just my 2C

Steve.

i have been throught most of the probs lol

2 inch lift was no problem in my car with extended struts

I get a better ride from having heavy duty springs and good quality shocks i found the problem with the ride in the coilies was the fact the springs where to pansy.

Posted: **Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:34 pm**

i have a 97 and its got 2 inch king springs in it. i find no probs with them. they r about $150 a pair and shocks r really hard to find, but i found some. u can go tough dog or rancho to suit the 2 inches of extra travel but thay r $130 each so $260 a pair. i went for ultima (2 inch longer travell ones), they r sold by king springs and suit it well and r only $150 a pair. much cheaper! thats about $600 for everything if u put it in yourself!

Posted: **Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:16 pm**

Yeah shocks are heaps expensive so ill prob have to go the cheaper ones. About kings sagging...thats sad to hear lol. My stok springs have sagged heaps and my whole car leans foward.

The main question that im after though, is if OME, EFS, kings(heard they sagged so kinda out of question), or ironman.

I dont mind paying a little bit extra for springs as long as they dont sag on me after a couple of years. And i might have to go those ultima shox that king springs make, i cant afford $260 a pair for shox.

D

Forgot to mention, i have monroe (think its spelt right) shox in the back. Im not sure if there longer than standard or not, the chik i brought my car off didnt know much.

Posted: **Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:01 pm**

hey mate compare the springs and go for the ones with the thickest wire used i rekon. The kings i had were not much beefier than standard and jusy didn't have the guts to prevent the sagging like that standards do, i noticed a sag in the kings probly 6 months into having them but i have had these thicker springs in for longer now and they have only dropped a few mm and don't seem to be moving.

i was very happy with efs springs in my old sierra (leafy) but i am unsure of there coil quality

Sam

Posted: **Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:27 am**

I have heard that kings are usualy good for lowering cars and not for raising them. But ill either go ironman, OME or EFS. As for shox, like ive said b4, ill try get ultima ones unless i can get a good deal on ranchos.

Thanks fer the help

D

Posted: **Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:14 am**

ive got a pair of dobinson 2'' springs i got as spares with my car. i have no use for them as i recently sold my car to buy a leaf sprung one, they r brand new, if u want the pair u can have em for $100.

Posted: **Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:31 pm**

The main question that im after though, is if OME, EFS, kings(heard they sagged so kinda out of question), or ironman.

ALL SPRINGS SAG ! Anyone in the suspension industry knows that! Out of all the springs made Kings make them for about 5-6 different companys. So really if you buy Kings, OME, Megalift, etc they are all made by kings.

You can get custom coils made to suit your vehcile, but all the makes will only have up to 2 inch off the shelf.

Front shocks are the biggest prob. as i normally have to make custom jobbys for people that want over 2 inch.

Cheers luke..

Posted: **Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:50 am**

ye the guy at a 4wd place said that ranchos would fit. i only want a 2 inch spring lift. or ultima shox from a post b4.

Posted: **Fri Aug 03, 2007 1:54 pm**

i have ultima shocks and kings all round they are good but they are only 30mm lifted springs .
the ultima rear shocks are to short. try and find something with the compresed lenth needed but with a longer extened length . i would like to bring the shock tower up through the floor and make a box round them has any one done that before

Posted: **Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:48 pm**

suzisport told me that coil sierras can now only have 30mm of lift because of something that went rong (not sure), and theyv all been recalled. Any1 else heard of that?

Posted: **Sun Aug 05, 2007 7:23 pm**

lukes4x4 wrote:The main question that im after though, is if OME, EFS, kings(heard they sagged so kinda out of question), or ironman.

ALL SPRINGS SAG ! Anyone in the suspension industry knows that! Out of all the springs made Kings make them for about 5-6 different companys. So really if you buy Kings, OME, Megalift, etc they are all made by kings.

You can get custom coils made to suit your vehcile, but all the makes will only have up to 2 inch off the shelf.

Front shocks are the biggest prob. as i normally have to make custom jobbys for people that want over 2 inch.

Cheers luke..

The time it took and the amount they sagged was redicilous, i have only had as much trouble with kings branded springs nothing else... so i am not sure of the differences.

Posted: **Sun Aug 05, 2007 9:49 pm**

ive never had a problem with them. ive had a leafy one and a coily one, both 2'' of lift. the leaf kings r exeptionally good i think. Apart from what i heard here, i havnt heard anyone else say a bad thing about them.

Posted: **Sun Aug 05, 2007 9:59 pm**

well im not gonna go wit kings, iv heard other bad things bout them too.

Posted: **Mon Aug 06, 2007 12:26 pm**

Well i went to on track 4x4 today and they gave me a quote, drive in drive out $1k for a 40mm lift. OME, with shocks at the back and with the mods in the front of the coil sprung sierra. That seem alot or reasonable price?

They also said that using polyurtherene bushes on sierras aint a good idea cuz the ride will be really bumpy and wont be too good offroad. They said to get the stock rubber bushes and use them. Any ideas on this? I woulda thought poly bushes are better, heavy duty kinda compared to rubber but i duno.

D

Posted: **Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:25 pm**

Send Oondy an email at andrew@gammatron.com.au

Let him know what your after and what you've been quoted and I reckon he'd beat it no worries. He supplies Dobbinson and ToughDog springs. For me the ToughDogs might be a little rough for a light vehicle like my jimny.

Good luck mate

Posted: **Mon Aug 06, 2007 3:50 pm**

Wow thanks alot man, ill email him now.

But how is the ride quality with dobsons? I dont want it to be a really hard ride. I also dont want alot of sagging...

Posted: **Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:46 pm**

And as for using polyurtherene bushes on a sierra? I need to know if the ride will be too hard or not or if i shuld just get the stock rubber 1ns.

Posted: **Wed Aug 08, 2007 4:24 pm**

I'm not a specialist with this sort of thing mate. More into the electonics side of things. Better off asking Rockin' O about it.

Posted: **Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:19 pm**

Hi D,

I too own a coily and I've gone the King Springs way with no regrets. They do sag a bit after a while but so do all springs. I've also installed a set of Tough Dog polyurethane bushes and they made a HUGE difference to the handling. I've actually had the Zook off the clock going down a hill (speedo needle was on the M of KMH)

without any dramas (all under controlled conditions, off course

). So much more stable, if you know what these things are like on the road once the original rubber bushes are stuffed

. The car actually rides a lot better too (MUCH more comfortable) as the suspension is not bottoming out on even the smallest pothole.
Just make sure you lubricate the bushes with a neutral grease before you fit them. I actually cut the bushes in half in order to fit them and I found wheel travel is better that way with no handling issues at all.

Hope this helps,

Cheers,

Posted: **Sat Aug 11, 2007 9:57 am**

i had kings in my coily when i had it, they flexed really well but are really soft i thought, but i got them second hand so they could of been made like that... hardest thing is getting front struts, some people sell you them an say they are for 2'' lift but are standard length with just the ring for strut 2'' different... i just cut the top of strut tower and lowered it, got heaps of down flex, but was to much an bent my arms

so look right into the front struts befor you pick a set.

my 2c

Posted: **Fri Aug 24, 2007 4:35 pm**

I went to on track 4x4 n they said they could get the front struts from a jimny...they quoted me for 4 shocks, 2 springs and 2 jimny struts, all OME for $1000 drive in n out. Kinda steep i rekon but not too sure. They where the guys that told me that the poly bushes are too hard for the zook.
D

Posted: **Fri Aug 24, 2007 4:38 pm**

jimny dont have struts
and yes poly bushes suck

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