Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hi Guys,

I have a set of 4 x Narva 71607's that I want to put on my rig.
Has anyone used these lights b4? Are they good?
Just wanted to ask, where do you guys put your relays?
I was going to put them in a sealed box (Jaycar style) under the
hood, but would I be better off putting them in the toolbox on the tray?
How much abuse can a relay take?

Thanks for your help,
Bart

Put them in a sealed box wherever you can to get the shortest cable run. Use a gland nut from the local 240V electrical supplier to seal the cable entry to the box. Relays aren't sealed, most wont tolerate internal moisture and crud, it will corrode the workings.

In the box you will get maximum life out of the relays and the best reliability.

Thanks mate,

So you reckon put the sealed box (with relays)
under the hood near the fuse box?
Might go down at lunchtime and see if I have
some room left down there.

Bart

Where is your battery(s)?You can mount the sealed box under the tray.

I'll take some pics of my setup and post them up.

I've only got one battery in the stock location.
So to minimise cable run (as you said in the first reply),
I thought the engine bay would ge the only go.
I was thinking about putting it on the inside of the toolbox lid,
(The box that contains the compressor and res. tank),
but would the extra 2M or so of cable interfere with performance
of the lights? What are the advantages of the shorter cable run?

Cheers,
Bart

bart, got cable ties???? bruce (the dude that made your "custom" tray mount) has his relays under the bonnet for the roof lights on his, n they work well they just point skywards sometimes

Here is the setup on mine - battery is under the tray, but you could easily put the breakout box anywhere in the truck as long as its well fed.

What wattage are the lights each? Can't give more tech until this known.

long cable runs are okay, as long as you use the correct rated cable to handle the projected current.

Ideal would be to find the neatest route for the power cables and then position the relay box in the best spot you can find along that route.

Don't forget that if you are running heavy cable direct from the battery you really ought to have a fuse as close to the battery as you practically can. Otherwise a short anywhere along the cable (eg post-collision) can be quite dangerous. That's the only real reason why it's advantageous to put the relay box near the battery - you can put fuses in there as well. [edit: as seen in Area54's pics ]

Not wanting to hijack the thread but also on the topic of spotlight wiring - when people mount lights up on their roof, what's the best way of running the cable up there? I don't really want to drill a hole in my roof, but I also don't want to sticky-tape cable to the windscreen pillars! I was thinking of running it alongside the snorkel, which almost reaches the roof... but what is the usual approach?

Jason

chimpboy wrote: when people mount lights up on their roof, what's the best way of running the cable up there? I don't really want to drill a hole in my roof, but I also don't want to sticky-tape cable to the windscreen pillars! I was thinking of running it alongside the snorkel, which almost reaches the roof... but what is the usual approach?

Jason

Quick release coupling, only plug them in when you need to use them (night run etc) run the cable out the door (from inside the cab) at the top of the window frame, wrap some tape around the cable bundle to keep it flat, and put it in some loom tube for additional mechanical protection.

Thanks guys for the good info,

Area 54, mate the lights are Narva 71607's 160 X 115 mm.
12V H3 100W Globes
Not sure what the amps are, but the Narva kit comes with a 30A 5 pin
relay per 2. (I'm gonna buy some of these this afternoon).
I'll try and find out what amps exactly each light is.

Cheers,
Bart

Have you got bigger alternater fitted cause it will suck all the amps with that many lights

Keep the wiring as close together as you can to get max wattage!

And also I had lights on my roof a while ago and they lit up the dash and bonnet made veiwing pretty hard specaily when dirt was on the windscreen. ...does anybody else find that?

At 100w, each lamp will draw about 8.5 amps EACH (8.33A @ 12 volts, current draw goes down though as most systems usually run more than 13v when the engine is running)

Really any need for so much lighting power in a forward direction?

4sum4 wrote:And also I had lights on my roof a while ago and they lit up the dash and bonnet made veiwing pretty hard specaily when dirt was on the windscreen. ...does anybody else find that?

If you mount the lights furthur back on the roof or on the rollbar this problem will be eliminated.

Toyo Truck wrote:Thanks guys for the good info,

Area 54, mate the lights are Narva 71607's 160 X 115 mm.
12V H3 100W Globes
Not sure what the amps are, but the Narva kit comes with a 30A 5 pin
relay per 2. (I'm gonna buy some of these this afternoon).
I'll try and find out what amps exactly each light is.

Cheers,
Bart

Watts = Volts times Amps
->
Amps = Watts divided by Volts
->
Amps = 100W divided by 12V = 8.3A

Four of them is a fair bit of drain. I'd definitely (at least) wire in 2 switches so you can switch on the outer pair or the inner pair independently, and only switch on all four when you have a dire need to.

You'd probably want an uprated alternator I imagine. Depends what the current alternator is and what else you're running.

Jason

bart, use the above math to work out the maximum current draw your car has, eg-all lights+stereo+amp+fridge+other accesories.
if this is >90% of your alternator rating then you should upgrade the alternator or plumb a twin in.
remember that alternaters charge most efficiently at greaterrpm. than idling.
if one of your mates is a auto elec or even a elec mechanic then get bthem to use a tong testor (current draw meter) to work out max current draw.
all of the info in this thread is very good and i would like to push another idea, use auto resetting circuit breakers instead of fuses at the final light circuits.
the main benefit is when using high wattage globes >100w and a filament gets damaged, you can usually click to another beam, high or low. with fuses you lose all headlight power and have to pull over (its dark) and change the fuse.
this is a trick most long range rally and bash cars use. it has saved my arse twice during night drives so far.
just another idea poeple can use(its not gospel, just convenience)

modman

modman wrote:bart, use the above math to work out the maximum current draw your car has, eg-all lights+stereo+amp+fridge+other accesories.
if this is >90% of your alternator rating then you should upgrade the alternator or plumb a twin in.
remember that alternaters charge most efficiently at greaterrpm. than idling.
if one of your mates is a auto elec or even a elec mechanic then get bthem to use a tong testor (current draw meter) to work out max current draw.
all of the info in this thread is very good and i would like to push another idea, use auto resetting circuit breakers instead of fuses at the final light circuits.
the main benefit is when using high wattage globes >100w and a filament gets damaged, you can usually click to another beam, high or low. with fuses you lose all headlight power and have to pull over (its dark) and change the fuse.this is a trick most long range rally and bash cars use. it has saved my arse twice during night drives so far.
just another idea poeple can use(its not gospel, just convenience)

modman

If the lights are wired up correctly, I can't see how this could occur (main headlight fuses blown) as the loom and power supply for the additional spots are independant from the standard lighting systems.

ok, imo definately put relays in sealed box. better life span and can use as general wiring box for fuses, relays etc.

below is link to couple pics of my relay box, removed from hilux and not yet in new car

http://groups.msn.com/4WDs4WDingRecreational/blueyscruiser.msnw?Page=2

i'm talking about when the high beam filament gets damaged due to inconsistent heat the fuse blows and you have no lights.
when there is a c/b in the circuit you can click down to low beam and they will probably come back on.
yes, most auxillary lighting should have a separate supply.
using c/b's is only another way of designing a circuit, its a personal choice.
i'm lucky, my old man taught auto and aircraft electrics and recently retired and being an electrician myself i understand the principles and have the skills to waste too much time on elec. projects
i do a lot of night driving and twice this system has saved my arse.
i think the next elec. project will involve hid inserts for the low/high beam (main headlights). recently saw some and very impressed. much cheaper than hid spots.

modman

Hey Guys,

Thanks for your help on this one.
I ended up putting the spotties in front of the grill.
And they work a treat. I ended up wiring positve and negative
straight to the battery to the lights with the relay inbetween up
on the drivers guard inside the engine bay.

I will end up going with a sealed box, I really like this idea.
But the boxes are quite expensive for a decent sealable box, and
considering I only have the 1 relay for the 1 set of spots (lockers and
compressor on a different circuit in toolbox),
it would be a bit of over-kill at this stage. I did however but 5 X 30A horn relays and the cool relay harness, so all I need to do IF the relays go,
is replace it, takes 2 seconds, and I'm away again.
Even if the relay blows, I still have headlights cause they are complete
separate circuits.

Was speaking to the bloke at Jaycar, he agrees that the sealed box
is a good long-term idea, but the horn relays Jaycar sell are designed
for unprotected use under the hood of a car, so they are very water
resistant. So I will put this theory to the test until I get more accessories
I will let you know if/when it blows.

Cheers,
Bart

Ive been running the Hella type 25mm square relays under the bonnets on a few 4wds for about 20 years. Washed engine bays many times too.
Only had one failure and it wasnt from water but an overheated contact.
Mount them with terminals to the bottom and always use a fuse box with blade fuses. You can get fuse boxes with a clear top and an O ring seal from Autopro etc. 2,4 6 configs.

Bazzle

No fuse box,
but I have got a 20A fuse on the +ve line into the relay,
so it should blow before anything goes askew.
And based on your experiences, the relays are
fairly tough anyway.
Bazzle, can you explain more about these fuse boxes?
Are they designed to hold relays? Where do you get them?
Have you got pics of said fuse boxes?
AND how much?

Cheers,
Bart

Hi guys ..
just been reading your thread as i have just mounted 4 spots on the roof of my RR, i did use a fuse box and it is plastic .. screws in the lid and sealed. i go it from Dick smith for about 10 bucks .. i have two side by side.. one for spotties and one for the Haltech,
cheers
Ted