Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Well this is a really dodgy paint job to give the rough idea of wat i mean.



So with such a large intake and the car traveling at 100kmhs would this be enough air pressure to cause a little bit of boost? Correct me if im wrong but Im thinking it would because of the larger amount of air being pushed down the snorkel pipes compared to the usual small snorkel ram head.
Also having air intake on both sides of the car and plumbed into seperate or the single airbox(s)? better or worse? I know the subject of snorkel boosting fuel economy and power has been done to death but if i made one in this way out of 2.5-3inch exhaust pipe it could also be as an overhead light bar Killing to birds with one stone
Watchyas reckon?

Looks like Ronald McDonalds 4by

Do both uprights (twin snorks) if you wish, been done before many times
Bit accross the top isn't going to give you more air (well enought to make a notable difference) and would look just plain silly, IMO

Also it would catch heaps of water when you hit a crossing or puddle

also think how u are going to get twin 3" into the engine bay.

single 3" is plenty for the 1.3 or 1.6.

air rams are also designed to ram the air down not just like the pvc plumbers fittings some use.

btw - air ram new is only $35 so not much.

maybe add a exo style front hoop for the spots and then attach the snorkel to this or to it.

Kitika wrote:Well this is a really dodgy paint job to give the rough idea of wat i mean.

So with such a large intake and the car traveling at 100kmhs would this be enough air pressure to cause a little bit of boost? Correct me if im wrong but Im thinking it would because of the larger amount of air being pushed down the snorkel pipes compared to the usual small snorkel ram head.

ALMOST, You got it half right.
Yes, your setup will force more air into carby at road speed.
No, it won't give any boost effect. All it will do is run lean, which you don't want.
Look at any BLOW-THRU turbo or supercharger setup and you'll see an airbox surrounding the entire carby so boost is same inside and outside of carby. This is so air isn't pushed into the float chamber via the main jet, instead of fuel flowing under vacuum from float chamber into carby throat.

it would also be more likley to ice up the carby in cool weather. It's a 1.3 engine adding an extra snorkel is not going to change that fact. If it was a way to add performance don't you think manufacturers would be doing it as well. Snorkels are there to protect the engine from water and dust ingress. Any performance gains are limited and quite honestly questionable.

when more air is added more fuel is also needed

I did have a normal rams head snorkel but it kept catching on branches and trees etc and getting ripped off so i sold it. Thats why i thought of having just a rounded pipe all the way along and being attatched on both sides so it'd be harder to snag and rip off and having mounting points along the top and sides of the windshield to give it more strength. I think it would be an ace idea Because it'd use the boxy shape of the zook to an advantage by pushing more air up and into the snorkel opening Well in theory...

If it was a way to add performance don't you think manufacturers would be doing it as well.

Dont lots of the new airboxes on sports cars have really large funnels facing forwards to get the most of the ram effect? And what about those american K&N Cold air intake boxes that they all seem to advertise in there magazines claiming a large ponypower increase? The way i'm thinking is that with such a small motor and having such a large air intake pushing copious amounts of air down the intake there'd have to be a reasonable gain in power (10%) at highway speeds. Prove me wrong (my old snorkel didnt seem to ice up the carby either driving in our coldest weather of about 10C) altho this new setup might do...

a large hp increase to a zook is 5hp if your lucky. dont waste your time you would be better skimming the head to raise comp 1 point and fitting a webber or alternatively go efi.

Kitika,

Have you been reading the other responses or do you already know the answer and you're just going to build it anyway?

It's not going to make a useful difference to your performance. It's just not. If it did, your car would just run lean and there's no fuelling adjustment in a sierra carby. The best you could expect is it to ice your carby on a cold day.

Modern high performance cars don't run "funnels" that I have seen, just ducts to areas that get cool air flowing through a bonnet gap or around a headlight. This has been the case for the last "high performance" caes I have owned - renaultsport Clio, Cooper s and STI WRX.

If you do the sums on pipe diameters and velocity @ a given CFM, you will find that the speeds the air reaches in the inlet are so far beyond road speed it a joke.

As an example, race cars are power limited by inlet restrictors. They work because the air at the restrictor approaches the speed of sound as it passes the restrictor so the frictional losses become impossible to beat. Even in race cars at 300km/h, inlet velocities still defeat road speedm regardless of funnel type inlet setups.

In any case, any possible power advantage will be impossible to measure and maybe even defeated by the massive increase in drag you will be introducing by damming the air around the windscreen (which is a big factor in suzuki open road performance)

Steve.

Kitika wrote: The way i'm thinking is that with such a small motor and having such a large air intake pushing copious amounts of air down the intake there'd have to be a reasonable gain in power (10%) at highway speeds. Prove me wrong

It's your THEORY (and that's all it is) so I would think the onus is on you to prove it WILL work rather than on the rest of us to stop you wasting your time and money.

The only reason that i think differently to what you have said is that the 1.3 couldnt really suck that much air could it? Going by Moph's calculations on a different thread:

Thus at 3000RPM V = 3000rev/m*0.455L/rev = 1365L/m = 1.365 cu.m/min = 48.2cfm

So for a minute cruising at 3000 doing 100kmh it'd chew 1365L/m
How do we figuire out the pressure being pushed down the 2 3inch pipes?
I am taking all this info in i just want to make another ram effect snorkel while knowing the sciences behind it
(I've had the head shaved and had a webber but didnt like it so now i've got a 3k carby which i can redrill the jets etc if need be to tune it with the more air if any)

. It's your car...go for it..
I've got a spare engine I'll sell you when yours mysteriously starts using piston tops.

Kitika wrote:

Thus at 3000RPM V = 3000rev/m*0.455L/rev = 1365L/m = 1.365 cu.m/min = 48.2cfm

How much air do you think you can push through an air filter? Any positive pressure will be negated by the effect of the filter. You can't really push air through a filter... only pull it, which is actually pretty much the same for radiators, which is why pusher fans are much less effective than pullers. It's like a sheet full of water - it will hold water until you touch the outside, then the water will flow where your finger is. you can load all the "pressure" your inlet can generate against the filter, but until you get some vacuum in the plenum, it's good for nothing.

You're talking about 48 cfm here for crissakes - its a poofteenth of a bee's dick. The advantage of +0.00000005psi is so small you could never measure it.

I still say the aerodynamic drag of the contraption will outweigh any advantage.... but don't let us stop you, sounds like you have already made your mind up.- burn those $$$ dude.

Steve.

Must agree with Gwagensteve.

I'm a structural engineer and don't have specialist Mech Eng knowledge, however I can tell you from basic fluid dynamics (air is a fluid when moving) that the turbulence you will introduce with the intake setup you propose (air comes in intake holes, whacks into rear wall of tube, picks itself up, dusts off and wanders towards the air box), plus the extra 90 degree bends required, will probably render your setup *worse* than a standard 3" snorkel with ram-air head.

Not only that but Steve is completely correct re trying to push air through an air filter. A poofteenth of a bee's... yeah, good way to describe it

And the air dam effect at the top of the windshield will be significant.

Why don't you try these instead? http://www.turbozet.com/TURBOZet.html



Seriously, all you can hope to do with a well-placed intake (cold air intakes on performance cars included) is to *avoid* negative pressure areas which will detract from performance. Once you're into a positive pressure area, the increase in performance beyond that is pretty much zilch.

PS Gwagensteve, that 48cfm was a *rough* calc on volume of air used by the G13A @ 3000rpm running at 70% volumetric efficiency, NOT extra volume of air that a ram head could provide!!! LOL

Fair go! Nice pic MSCHIF looks the goods
Geeez i never said i was dead set on making the snorkel at all i just thought up an idea and thought it could work. I'll still need to make a high an dry air intake just wont be this design
Ok get the concepts now i had no idea it was almost impossible to push air through a filter
Thanks for the tech help

Moph wrote: PS Gwagensteve, that 48cfm was a *rough* calc on volume of air used by the G13A @ 3000rpm running at 70% volumetric efficiency, NOT extra volume of air that a ram head could provide!!! LOL

Oh no, I knew that. My point is we're not dealing with 900cfm here. At 48 cfm, a 2" pipe will supply all the air in the world.

Steve.

A Kiwi version...

I think the extra drag caused by the plumbing will negate any possible
gains. A club member swears to the fact that if his snorkel intake was
pointing forward he couldnt hold 100, but backwards it was just possible.

So my point is - the losses will be greaster than any gain.

( usual disclaimers.... )

i think go for it .. suits your car

just make sure you choose another cool colour like maybe pink or even like a bright green colour.



your obviously not tooooo concerned about functionality

As has been stated the real problem you have is the lack of tuning ability with the stock carb. If you want to have a play and learn something try using a manometer to measure pressure drops in your system and see where you can improve things by reducing restrictions to flow. You can also do the same on the exhaust. That should keep you busy for a bit.

The reason i set about designin a new snorkel was cos the old one kept on getting snagged and ripping off because of the rams head and cos i couldnt find strong enough places to mount it. Thats how i came up with that design so its got mounts along the roof and sides etc. Then thinking wow i could have a huge intake grid across that scooping up all the air coming up the bonnet and windshield! But it doesnt seem to be so.... Still thinkin about it after seeing that kiwi one didnt look to bad just needs to be painted yella or green aye!

what if you just made it out of 2.5 inch tube and plum one side as a snorkel and just the other side normal and run them down to you rock sliders and have it as a roll over hoop you can weld spotlight tabs to




then it won't run lean, it won't increase drag to much compared to an exo, it will help in rolls, it will be strong and not rip off and it will give you somewhere to mount your lights

and paint it all black, bar, snorkel, sliders, grill and whatever else is fluro lol

just joking keep the colours you like

How about this then






Lots of strength and even an extra snorkel to blow some extra cold air over the extractors when working hard up an down the beach.

your going to have the heaviest sierra ever

lol

i think you need roof racks aswell big pink ones

Did you ever think of the drag it would put of an already un-aerodynamic car?

Gwagensteve wrote: In any case, any possible power advantage will be impossible to measure and maybe even defeated by the massive increase in drag you will be introducing by damming the air around the windscreen (which is a big factor in suzuki open road performance)

Steve.

I did.....

Steve

Kitika wrote:How do we figuire out the pressure being pushed down the 2 3inch pipes?

Stagnation pressure (in Pascals) = 1/2 x rho x V^2

Where rho = density of air (1.2kg/m3)
V = velocity in meters/sec

So at 100kmh (27m/s)
pressure = 1/2 x 1.2 x 27^2
= 437 Pa
= 0.06 psi
= 5/8 of f*ckall.

On the plus side, if you manage to get up to 280km/h with your new super aerodynamic snorkel, you will be generating 0.5psi...

Ben

Dam physics - always seems to get in the way of hair brained schemes.

Just as well the average buyer of $29.95 car performance "boosters" doesn't spend a lot of time considering those pesky rules.

However you may have overlooked the "second layer of gravity" effect that seems to have been quite widely discussed in the distant past. Perhaps the rules of physics don't apply at roof top level ?

Kikita,

If you want your car to have the "tough" look, go ahead and fit the twin snorkels along with 8 roof mounted lights and a big aerial.

If you want your car to work, build one snorkel (more than enough for the whopping 1.3ltrs of fury under your hood) and spend the rest of your spare time driving or fitting something useful to your car.

Oh yeah, to the budding artists who posted the B1 and B2 stoner pics. B1 and B2 asked to have their pictures removed from the thread, they did not want to be associated with the vehicle in any way, they're currently working on a deal with the guy who owns the Lada with Dolphin torches taped to his roof.