Rotary Zook Whats the latest?

[Remydog05]

Ive reading and searching about Rotarys in Zooks and most of the info Ive found seems to be from 03/04.

1MadEngineer has done it, as have a few others like Overkill, and in the past threads they all talk about reduction gears being important as well diff gearing.

Just wondering if anyone has done this in the past year or so and have they got it legal on road or just in a buggy?

What autos have you run and was there any mod to the Trancase? (moving it?)

HOw do they run offroad? EG Angles etc.

Also COST??? It seems that these motors are about the same as 1.6mpfi and ca18det to buy as halfcuts,engine packs, etc

Thanks!

[offroader-rama]

what are you doing now, did you get that ute from down the coast??

[Remydog05]

LOL

Yeah its on the way but the Engineer prob wont let me put the CA in it because of the year of the Ute. If it was older it would be OK but its out of Date for the CA so I will have to look at other options. The Numbers on the Rotarys are pretty big and if I can get one cheap it maybe worth a good look at it. They also have a few options with the autos too.

[ofr57]

i rember back when australian short course was on a little blue soft top cut into a ute ran one .... turboed of course

but its gearing needed work ... not low enough it , had heaps of grunt though it took alittle for it to spool up but yeah didn't die

didn't do to good since would wheel spin alot

[offroader-rama]

from what i know its hard to get the auto motivated but once moving there grouse keep us updated wont you congrades on the ute it looks the part did you get everything with it??

[Remydog05]

Pmed

[croatian4x4]

just the fact of the amount of $$$$ that u gotta spend just to do a service on those things every 5000km scares me!!!!

oh and i hate that whippersnipper sound

[offroader-rama]

croatian4x4
now say aloud
blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat blat
now
ringggggggggggggg ta ringggggggggggggg ta ringgggggggggggggg ta ringggggggggggggggggggggggggggg ta ringgggggggggggggggggggggginginginginginginginginging



the best way to take on your fears is head on hope that helped

[mrRocky]

how do they go in the torque department? and i assume we are talking 13 b. how does the 12 a go? i may consider a rotary swap after christmas, the 13b is a 1.3 ltr, is this correct

[offroader-rama]

no, it is 2.6ltr

[muz_ook]

how do they go in the torque department? and i assume we are talking 13 b. how does the 12 a go? i may consider a rotary swap after christmas, the 13b is a 1.3 ltr, is this correct

They aren't very impressive when it comes to torque,thats why gearing is important, i think it would be a good conversion though...........

Muz

[Remydog05]

I would have said that 248nm @ 3500rpm was pretty dam good??

Have a look at this go to 13b-T

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_Wankel_engine

[11_evl]

mmm the new rx8 motor, they seem to be a popular transplant into earlier mazdas. could be nice in a zuk.

[muz_ook]

I would have said that 248nm @ 3500rpm was pretty dam good??

Have a look at this go to 13b-T

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_Wankel_engine

my mistake.

[Remydog05]

I think you might be talking about the 13bTT.
I have a feeling it might be just too much Ponys!
208KW and I would guess around 350nm.
Thats getting up there!

Have a look at the 20B its off the scale! 408NM argh argh argh argh!

[Remydog05]

Hey Muz its only off a web page is doesnt mean its 100% correct!

Most people have the opion that Rotary = no torque and many are against it.

Seems like stock form they have good numbers and are light!!

croatian4x4
Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:42 pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

just the fact of the amount of $$$$ that u gotta spend just to do a service on those things every 5000km scares me!!!!


So they have to be serviced a lot???
Didnt know that one?

[muz_ook]

croatian4x4
Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:42 pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

just the fact of the amount of $$$$ that u gotta spend just to do a service on those things every 5000km scares me!!!!


So they have to be serviced a lot???
Didnt know that one?

i think that the word on the street is that they aren't the most reliable egine,this maybe a bit of an old 'mith' though.

[mrmagoo]

I have owned many rota's and they are just like any other motor.
Look after them and they will last!!!
One 13B mild port i had was 2 years old when i got it and lasted another 5 years of torture.
warm them up for 10mins before driving then you can kane them to 10,000rpm all day long.
Servicing them is personally your decision.
Oil + filter and plugs every 6months is all they need and they are not that expensive.
Best thing bout them is that there is only 3 moving parts.!!!
cheers Dan

[Gwagensteve]

Can't comment on service or reliability, per se, but I have driven a couple of rotors and think that there won't be a torque issue with a sierra, even an N/A rotor.

The thing is with N/A rotors is that they have an almost totally flat power/torque curve so in a car with lots of gearing (and plenty of highway revs) it won't be a problem- you pretty much always have more revs.

Too much torque creates its own problems with driveline and traction, so having a flat torque curve and high revs seems to work best in a sierra IMHO.

A turbo 13B would be cool but you would need a lot of tyre and driveline strength to give it enough load to work properly.

Steve.

[Bad JuJu]

I can see it now, busted xfer case (go hilux), busted diffs (go bundy - or 60 series), rolled over cause you tried to "drift" it.... But would be cool.

The biggest problem will be the length of the rotory+ gearbox, you will have to move the engine a fair bit forward or have the shifting done by someone in the back seat.

[offroader-rama]

i've only ever driven one, me and a mate swaped cars for a day and went for a cruise, he got my hq coupe 350 sbc etc... and i got his 13b j or bridge port the one before parifical, any way it took about an hour for me to stop stalling it, as i was used to the chev with a top 5500-6000 rpm, but once i got used to 10,000rpm, bloody hell it was scary the two cars where pretty even down the road, but very different to drive, you had to ring the rotor, but it was also worked a standed one, may be a little different for a sierr.

[Gwagensteve]

I have drvien an RX4 with a bridgeported 13B with an ASK racing manifold and a 50mm dellorto (sidedraft) carby.

It actually seemed to have acceptable torque - you could idle it off the line no worries.

I have also driven a series 4 RX7 (efi 6 port 13B) and it drove really nice - not really quick but smooth and linear - I woud have thought perfect for a sierra- even stock or mildly built driveline should live. I think the S4 motor was about 120kw/200nm from memory. made an S4 feel heavy.... but they are way heavier than a zook.

Steve.

[MightyMouse]

No reflection any anyone here - but there are a lot of VERY average rotary
porting jobs out there. Just because you can port a rotary with a pistol drill
and file doesn't mean you should ( unless you know what you are doing ).

I don't believe anyone would seriously grind a camshaft with an angle
grinder - and expect great results, yet thats most home done rotary port
jobs are equivalent to.

When you see people "porting" without a timing disk or any ideas of the
events its a sign of just how tolerant rotaries are.

So its not only the words that matter - bridge, J, peripheral etc its the
events as well.

I have owned and driven all of the above ranging from a twin turbo RX5 to a peripheral port single rotor ( half a 13B ) in an LJ50.

Match the events to the application and the rotary is a good engine

( usual disclaimers..... )

[v840]

What are they like in terms of fuel consumption?
No experience with them here but I "heard" they are as thirsty as a v8? Any truth to that or are they more economical?

[offroader-rama]

what about LPG do they like that go go fuel

[cj]

I had a mildly worked series 2 RX7 with the Dellorto (off a Ferrari) on it amongst other things and I used to tow with it quite happily. The economy and performance improved after the mods were done but I had it done by somebody who's business was building and racing rotaries. Like all things, getting it done properly makes a difference. In some respects I would think it would be like the 660cc swap where geared appropriately it would be very cool.

[Gwagensteve]

My understanding is that compared to piston engines, per HP, rotaries do use more fuel. Even the Re-ensis motor in the RX-8 uses about 25% more fuel per HP than a piston of similar HP (and less torque)

However, I think one of the sweetest things about rotaries is the very smooth powerband and wide operating range. Forget HP for a minute, any reasonable atmo rotary will make all the HP a suzuki needs, but the ability to spin out low gears and NOT have driveline smashing torque has to be an advantage to the rotary, even before the low COG and compact packaging are taken into account.

I'm sure Mightymouse will add to this (who I think had a rotary tank, no?), but when you turbo a rotary you will induce peaks in the power delivery that inherently aren't there, due to the flow characteristics of the turbo. In a car that needs 300hp (or more) and usable torque to work as a sportscar at 1500kg, a turbo will be fine, but I think an EFI atmo rotary would be very sweet, a turbo would somehow spoil the sweetness and flexibility of the rotary as an offroad motor.

The series 6 twin turbo I drove was cool, but in many ways its power delivery wasn't very different to any healthy turbo petrol. The RX-4 felt totally unlike anything I had ever experienced - syrupy smooth and totally linear. I think that's the key.

I imagine an auto one would need have its stall chosen very carefully though to avoid bogging on big climbs.

Maybe a rootes type supercharger (eaton), which are also quite linear?

Steve.

[redzook]

after spotting for a rotary powered buggy last year (13b turbo)

i would not put it in a off road car

it really had nothing at all down low with the auto
but once it did spool up it was on or off
not at all controllable


they would be fun for a road car but in my opinion not worth it for offroad

[Remydog05]

Thanks for your coments.

Interesting opions.

[MightyMouse]

There have been a few blown rotaries done ( many many years ago ) with
GM style 671's. Admittedly they were for roadies and HP but they looked
bizarre with a huge 671 sitting on a 13B ( could have even been a 12AP ).

To show the size difference, there was a prototype blown rotary
diesel built - the blower was more than twice the size of the engine...

And going back a few posts - its been a few years now since my last
rotary, but I am "certain" the actual displacement of a 13B was around 1300cc.

It was converted to 2600cc for registration and racing purposes because
it was deemed to be doing two things at once "suck/squeeze" - "bang/blow" ( love that description.... ), so the "two stroke" equivalence
factor was applied.

Just imagine how it would ave gone if it was actually 2.6ltrs......

This difference in operation from a normal engine is also one of the
reasons low end torque is an issue, the rotors actually run at one third
of crank RPM so the intake and exhaust manifolds need to be VERY
long to generate positive pressure pulses - to the point where its
difficult to get right in a car. This lower rotor RPM is one of the reasons
rotaries make good power - its easier to get a full charge into the
combustion chamber if you have more time.

The factory racing RX7's extractors joined after the rear axle, from
memory 96" primaries. So many of the "extractors" fitted to rotaries
would be useable from about 12k on !