Outer Limits 4x4 Board

hey just an enquirey..
im looking at useing mandrel bends and welding to solid tube in my air shock mounts rather than actualy bending the tube... as they will be a tad fancy and hard to get bends right.... oh and i dont have a bender yet!

whats ppls opinions??
are they any weeker if done this way?? or is it just for smoothness ppl bend everything???

why does no one reply.. this is why we need a buggy tech section!

Red_Zook wrote:why does no one reply..

because its only been an hour and half... some people have lives.

this is why we need a buggy tech section!

that would make all the difference. they wouldnt have jobs then.

bogged wrote:

Red_Zook wrote:why does no one reply..

because its only been an hour and half... some people have lives.

this is why we need a buggy tech section!

that would make all the difference. they wouldnt have jobs then.

haha having a life is overated...
i was thinking more along the lines of the fact that it weould be in the buggy bible if there was one

Red_Zook wrote:i was thinking more along the lines of the fact that it weould be in the buggy bible if there was one

it has been asked here before... no need for a bible ..

So you're asking if lots of little bits of low grade pipe welded together are going to be as strong as one piece of higher grade tube?

sierrajim wrote:So you're asking if lots of little bits of low grade pipe welded together are going to be as strong as one piece of higher grade tube?

no... im gona use high grade pipe.. and heavy waled mandrel bends.. nice and easy..

and i did search carnt find shit

Works ok for exhaust systems but not for anything structural

rvh96 wrote:Works ok for exhaust systems but not for anything structural

Can you explain why?
Not that Id ever do it to anything structural but Im genuinely curious as to why one cant? I would have thought that if the tube was welded properly then there would be very little strength lost. Sure, in an impact the join would be the first point of breakage but isnt this the case with most cages?

Honestly not trying to be a d1ck, just want to know......

v840 wrote:

rvh96 wrote:Works ok for exhaust systems but not for anything structural

Can you explain why?
Not that Id ever do it to anything structural but Im genuinely curious as to why one cant? I would have thought that if the tube was welded properly then there would be very little strength lost. Sure, in an impact the join would be the first point of breakage but isnt this the case with most cages?

Honestly not trying to be a d1ck, just want to know......

yeah well thats why i asked...
i used them in my old shock hoops in red_zook.. never a issue.. but thats a bit difrent...

i woudnt use them in a cage.. but on my try and air shock mounts why not?

I wouldnt do it.
You have to remember that mount is taking the whole weight of the vehicle.
If it were just a shock mount then I think it would be fine but with an airshock you need good mounts.

dummy it with rhs till u get ur bender maybe.

ausyota wrote:I wouldnt do it.
You have to remember that mount is taking the whole weight of the vehicle.
If it were just a shock mount then I think it would be fine but with an airshock you need good mounts.

thats true... but does any one know how strong it is???

Mandrel bends are very highly stressed when bent. Not a problem for a tube that only has to point gas in a certain direction at low pressure, but can cause problems in a suspension mount.

Firstly I'd be designing the mount properly (you know, working out loads and deflection and other critical specs). By then you'll know what it has to take, what geometry is required and how much material is needed in each region.

KiwiBacon wrote:Mandrel bends are very highly stressed when bent.

the ones im looking at are formed.. as in cast.. not bent..
and wouldnt it be the same stress requited to bend tube anyways?

i wouldnt use weld in bends for shock hoops, im no engineer, but i dont think a few bits and pieces welded together would be any where near as strong as 1 bent piece. im not against weld in bends, ive just used them to make part of a hoop for my front bar, but i wouldnt use them for high stress bits like shock hoops or roll cage. and i doubt any engineer would pass them.

I have made a few tube bars using pre formed 90 degree elbows ...the strength will be as good as what your weld is .....but to use a decent 90 degree elbow you will need similar wall thickness pipe ....not tube ......

If the weld area has been prepared correctly .......V'd accordingly there should be not much of a reason why it wont serve its purpose as a shock tower or tube bars .....( but dont risk in a safety aspect eg roll cages )

A1 wrote:I have made a few tube bars using pre formed 90 degree elbows ...the strength will be as good as what your weld is .....but to use a decent 90 degree elbow you will need similar wall thickness pipe ....not tube ......

If the weld area has been prepared correctly .......V'd accordingly there should be not much of a reason why it wont serve its purpose as a shock tower or tube bars .....( but dont risk in a safety aspect eg roll cages )

thanks dan thats what i was thinking..
no mater im going to use them for my tray, not my hoops, better safe than sorry i guess it would be imbarising smashing a hoop to bits on the rocky horor or somthing

Go for it. It will be stronger than the chassis you are welding to anyway.

iv used these bends ur talking bout, them matched with there correct tube partner on mine and a mates airbagged trucks...both with no problems, joins V'd and a good weld, i bent the section of frame that it was welded threw, the welded bends are still fine. if u really wanted to do it and u wanted extra strenght u can make up a plate outta 5-6mm that runs from below ur weld over the top and back down below ur weld, weld it in so the force has to be pushed against this plate to break the weld joining the pipes...

if any of that makes sense ur better than me at understanding random words peiced together

they will be fine, as stated v the joins, if this is not enough then sleeve it with 32mm od pipe..makes for one hell of a strong join...

also plate the chassis where it is mounting to, you will have no problems.

cheers mark

If I remember corectly didnt the buggy that was built for 4wd monthly have these bends in the actual cage (sleved and welded well) and that was made by an engineer if i am not mistaken

ok well it looks like they are the go!
chears guys
oh if they are welded right and sanded back with a flap disc no one will know anyways

Red_Zook wrote:

KiwiBacon wrote:Mandrel bends are very highly stressed when bent.

the ones im looking at are formed.. as in cast.. not bent..
and wouldnt it be the same stress requited to bend tube anyways?

Oh right, you're welding in pipe bends, not mandrel bent tube.
They'll be fine so long as you do your homework.

KiwiBacon wrote:

Red_Zook wrote:

KiwiBacon wrote:Mandrel bends are very highly stressed when bent.

the ones im looking at are formed.. as in cast.. not bent..
and wouldnt it be the same stress requited to bend tube anyways?

Oh right, you're welding in pipe bends, not mandrel bent tube.
They'll be fine so long as you do your homework.

sorry guys incoret wording.. yeah weld in pipe bends!

btw,, when does tube become pipe? oficialy? 32nb isnt it?

pipe is measured as nb or nominal bore
tube is measured in od outside diameter tube is used for cages buggy frames etc pipe is used for general fab etc

pipe and tube are different. tube is measured by its OD and is generally thinner wall than pipe. pipe has a standard size ID for each step in sizing. this id size reflects to an od for the rest of the wall thicknesses to follow.

regards

justin

MUD CLUB wrote:If I remember corectly didnt the buggy that was built for 4wd monthly have these bends in the actual cage (sleved and welded well) and that was made by an engineer if i am not mistaken

as in the moon buggy??????

it was haultech built and they are far from pre fabbed bends. some things get joined because they are too complicated to do all the bends etc. it explained why they were being joined in the article.

chunderlicious wrote:

MUD CLUB wrote:If I remember corectly didnt the buggy that was built for 4wd monthly have these bends in the actual cage (sleved and welded well) and that was made by an engineer if i am not mistaken

as in the moon buggy??????

it was haultech built and they are far from pre fabbed bends. some things get joined because they are too complicated to do all the bends etc. it explained why they were being joined in the article.

Sorry I'm not an engineer

Daisy wrote:

chunderlicious wrote:

MUD CLUB wrote:If I remember corectly didnt the buggy that was built for 4wd monthly have these bends in the actual cage (sleved and welded well) and that was made by an engineer if i am not mistaken

as in the moon buggy??????

it was haultech built and they are far from pre fabbed bends. some things get joined because they are too complicated to do all the bends etc. it explained why they were being joined in the article.

Sorry I'm not an engineer

Just pointing out what i have seen no need to get defensive children