Outer Limits 4x4 Board

Hey Dudes has anyone heard of anyone having sucess in one of these little gadgets. The old boy want to install one on his cruiser but isnt sure. The cfm calcs prove it is possible but nothin beats actually givin it a go.
Also can you blow thru a landcruiser carby?

Sucker

outlandy in a PM to me wrote:Your a rooster

They are a hoax, they don't work, I know who the rooster is

I'll even give you some more reading rooster breath

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/phpBB2/vi ... tric+turbo

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/phpBB2/vi ... tric+turbo

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/phpBB2/vi ... tric+turbo

Thanks for the advice
You can go back to playing the pig skin flute
If you havent any real info then pull your head in

outlandy wrote:Thanks for the advice
You can go back to playing the pig skin flute
If you havent any real info then pull your head in

Have a look now cletus

outlandy wrote:Thanks for the advice
You can go back to playing the pig skin flute
If you havent any real info then pull your head in

If you are the full quid and being serious (which I doubt you are) he did provide links to lots of proof stating that they are rubbish.

Thats all I neede to know
Havent forked out any readies and wasnt planning to.

outlandy wrote:Thats all I neede to know
Havent forked out any readies and wasnt planning to.

outlandy wrote:The cfm calcs prove it is possible but nothin beats actually givin it a go.
Also can you blow thru a landcruiser carby?

That almost sounds to me like you contemplated it a fair bit... and to post on here you must have been pretty keen about the idea.

Wasnt 4 me just was asked the question and decided to do a little research. My cruiser is not 4 racing I have a race car 4 racing and the cruiser is 4 cruisin.

outlandy wrote:Wasnt 4 me just was asked the question and decided to do a little research. My cruiser is not 4 racing I have a race car 4 racing and the cruiser is 4 cruisin.

i thought fourbies where for fourbying? not cruising

outlandy wrote:Thats all I neede to know
Havent forked out any readies and wasnt planning to.

Your welcome..............

Next time, no need to flex them big internet muscles through PMing

By the way, c0ck gets edited to rooster

This site might be of interest
http://www.boosthead.com/home.php

More a street racing thing

Always something to spend your money on .....

Don't listen to these n00bs.

They rock the world dude, they're the power upgrade of the future.

Don't even think about it, just buy one and show all these lolly bags who got the shit now!!!!

RoldIT wrote:Don't listen to these n00bs.

They rock the world dude, they're the power upgrade of the future.

Don't even think about it, just buy one and show all these lolly bags who got the shit now!!!!

Funny you should say that.... A very large german parts manufacturer has developed an electric supercharger to improve VE at low revs (and therefore emissions and torque). Apparently it will appear in a prouduction car in around three years.

The turbozet type stuff is rubbish though IMHO.

Steve.

Gwagensteve wrote:

RoldIT wrote:Don't listen to these n00bs.

They rock the world dude, they're the power upgrade of the future.

Don't even think about it, just buy one and show all these lolly bags who got the shit now!!!!

Funny you should say that.... A very large german parts manufacturer has developed an electric supercharger to improve VE at low revs (and therefore emissions and torque). Apparently it will appear in a prouduction car in around three years.

The turbozet type stuff is rubbish though IMHO.

Steve.

lol

Let's see - there are losses converting rotational (kinetic) energy into electrical (alternator), then converting electrical energy back into rotational enetrgy to power the electric blower (most fan efficiency calcs assume 65% efficiency).

Even if you could get a fan that would provide anough CFM, after all the efficiency losses any performance gain would be marginal.

ISUZUROVER wrote:Let's see - there are losses converting rotational (kinetic) energy into electrical (alternator), then converting electrical energy back into rotational enetrgy to power the electric blower (most fan efficiency calcs assume 65% efficiency).

Even if you could get a fan that would provide anough CFM, after all the efficiency losses any performance gain would be marginal.

Unless you are "under the curve" so to speak, trying to get basically an N/A engine that is highly efficient and high RPM to have good cylinder filling at low rpm. My guess is this is the application the OE suppliers are working on... or to eliminate turbo lag by filling out idle to boost threshold where CFM is is low.
Think about it - in an oem application they can be very carefully tuned to eliminate exactly the flat spot, or lag etc required - with let's say throttle position and manifold pressure as inputs.

I have very good intelligence these are real OEM applications, not aftermarket.

I am sure they have no effect on HP at all, only in drivability, but they kight eliminate the nasty doughy off idle feel my last two electronic throttle cars have be blighted with.

I think this is especially relevant in europe where emissions, small, efficient engines and manual gearboxes are all major issues.

Steve.

Large slow speed diesels run electric auxiliary blowers which cut in at very low engine revs. Being 2 stroke they don't scavenge overly well without them.

KaMo wrote:Large slow speed diesels run electric auxiliary blowers which cut in at very low engine revs. Being 2 stroke they don't scavenge overly well without them.

you sure??
most of th 2 stroke deisles i know of have mechanical superchargers ie 671's 6w51's.

the problem with electric supercharger is they take HUGE amount of power to run. trying to get 10kw+ electric motors to fit under the bonnet is tricky, not to mention the huge amount of weight. also there is the problem of controlling the speed of the blower.

know of a bloke in the UK with one on his V8 Dakar. Is only about maybe 6 inches in length, and fits halfway along the ducting from the front air intake.
He was showing it on a video, turned it on, makes for one hell of a racket....

from autospeed.com


The amount of air that flows into the cylinder, compared with the cylinder volume, is called the engine's breathing - or volumetric - efficiency. In a 3 litre six cylinder engine, each cylinder has a swept volume of 500cc. If the cylinder breathes in only 400cc on the intake stroke, the engine is said to have an 80 per cent volumetric efficiency (ie 400/500 = 0.8 or 80 per cent). Volumetric efficiency will depend on lots of factors (including how well the ports flow), but let's say that the VE of the example engine is in fact 80 per cent. If this 3 litre engine is revving at 6000 rpm full throttle, this means that it inhales 7200 litres of air per minute (remember, one intake stroke per two rpm), or 120 litres per second. To put it in different units, each minute this engine consumes 254 cubic feet of air. To put that into context, a little 60mm diameter PC cooling fan flows only about 18 cubic feet per minute. So, just to flow the amount of air that this naturally aspirated, 3 litre engine needs, you'd need an array of fourteen 60mm fans working flat-out. And that's without creating any boost at all....

so.. short answer, you would need a crap load of computer fans (turbo zet) and it still proabably wont work that well..

tweak'e wrote: the problem with electric supercharger is they take HUGE amount of power to run. trying to get 10kw+ electric motors to fit under the bonnet is tricky, not to mention the huge amount of weight. also there is the problem of controlling the speed of the blower.

Not only that, where are you going to get an alternator that can push 400 amps at 12v?

The only serious electric boost device is the Garrett E booster.
It's intention is to improve the transient response in turbo engines. It goes for a few seconds then the turbo takes over.

bigcam wrote: you'd need an array of fourteen 60mm fans working flat-out. And that's without creating any boost at all....

Thinking the other way... If the engine is sucking in heaps of air, vacuum is created, and thus would make these fan that are in-line run flat out.... so, make them into a useless vacuum alternator to run a LED.

outlandy wrote:Hey Dudes has anyone heard of anyone having sucess in one of these little gadgets. The old boy want to install one on his cruiser but isnt sure. The cfm calcs prove it is possible but nothin beats actually givin it a go.
Also can you blow thru a landcruiser carby?

Never heard of it but might be good if someone did it as Eletric motor have a super high torque, though no idea if a large eletric motor would get up as high as the little R/C ones they are around 150,000 to 200,000+RPMs, Turbos do these types of RPMs right now or slightly higher.

the problem I can see with this: the eletric motor will be great getting started but it'll be limited by the motor RPm itself, so no lag at all but you'll have a limit to the amount of boost you'll get out of it.

The new GT-R Skyline uses 4 eletric motors (1 each wheel) to start with and swaps to the motor around the 60kph mark, the reason Nissan have done this is to get the GT-R an even better take off, than the old GT-R models and other cars.

This is different to normal motor/eletric cars as they start with the motor and then swap to the eletric motor.

tweak'e wrote:

KaMo wrote:Large slow speed diesels run electric auxiliary blowers which cut in at very low engine revs. Being 2 stroke they don't scavenge overly well without them.

you sure??
most of th 2 stroke deisles i know of have mechanical superchargers ie 671's 6w51's.

the problem with electric supercharger is they take HUGE amount of power to run. trying to get 10kw+ electric motors to fit under the bonnet is tricky, not to mention the huge amount of weight. also there is the problem of controlling the speed of the blower.

Positive...not exactly an under the bonnet installation but. 6 cylinder mitsubishi that runs flat chat at about 105rpm and produces about 12,000kw. All large slow speeds run them as far as I know; Sulzer, Man B&W etc etc. They are required for scavenging at low revs as these engines run a constant pressure turbo charging system which is only effective down to approx 25% of full power. Thus insufficient air is available at low speed and low power operations, and an electrically driven centrifugal compressor is used to increase the air pressure to the scavenge trunk in these cases. Auxiliary generators or a PTO shaft generator will run it.

These are marine installations not automotive and I have only seen this arrangment once but have not personally worked on it.

KaMo wrote:

tweak'e wrote:

KaMo wrote:Large slow speed diesels run electric auxiliary blowers which cut in at very low engine revs. Being 2 stroke they don't scavenge overly well without them.

you sure??
most of th 2 stroke deisles i know of have mechanical superchargers ie 671's 6w51's.

the problem with electric supercharger is they take HUGE amount of power to run. trying to get 10kw+ electric motors to fit under the bonnet is tricky, not to mention the huge amount of weight. also there is the problem of controlling the speed of the blower.

Positive...not exactly an under the bonnet installation but. 6 cylinder mitsubishi that runs flat chat at about 105rpm and produces about 12,000kw. All large slow speeds run them as far as I know; Sulzer, Man B&W etc etc. They are required for scavenging at low revs as these engines run a constant pressure turbo charging system which is only effective down to approx 25% of full power. Thus insufficient air is available at low speed and low power operations, and an electrically driven centrifugal compressor is used to increase the air pressure to the scavenge trunk in these cases. Auxiliary generators or a PTO shaft generator will run it.

These are marine installations not automotive and I have only seen this arrangment once but have not personally worked on it.

mmmmm...the werid and wonderfull machines cheers for that.

Alright.. i wan looking at this the other day... there was a centrifugal supercharger run from a 8hp electric motor, of a independant power source (2 truck/deep cycle batteries) that didnt charge off the alternator.
Was marketed as a 'nitrous' kind of thing... (ie would run for 60sec or so)

this seemed like a crap idea...

BUT... what if you charged the batteries of a high power (seperate) alternator, that only kicked in under engine braking conditions???

like hybrid cars.... could work i think, they were saying 15psi on a 3.8l motor..

possibly hook a large generator to the driveshaft with capacitors?

btw i think that as they stand electric superchargers would be a dud.. but there is potential

bigcam wrote:. To put it in different units, each minute this engine consumes 254 cubic feet of air.

barely to get 80% VE . ?